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Roster/Trade/Etc Discussion Part VI

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05-05-2013, 06:48 PM
  #701
Sojourn
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This goes to the potential area of the trade. The outcome of both trades were clearly in favor of Pitt in the long haul. Who trades a top 6 for a "potential" top d man? I guess we do. Just sucks man we got hosed.
We didn't get hosed. Kunitz is playing with the best player in the league, in a slightly more offensive Eastern Conference. Whitney had great potential as a top pairing guy, and he had already shown some of that potential. It's not like he was a prospect. Furthermore, Whitney was traded for Visnovsky, who did (more than) pretty well in Anaheim.

Your argument is all about hindsight.

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05-05-2013, 07:24 PM
  #702
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
We didn't get hosed. Kunitz is playing with the best player in the league, in a slightly more offensive Eastern Conference. Whitney had great potential as a top pairing guy, and he had already shown some of that potential. It's not like he was a prospect. Furthermore, Whitney was traded for Visnovsky, who did (more than) pretty well in Anaheim.

Your argument is all about hindsight.
ANd we still have the NYI 2nd pick this June too.

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05-06-2013, 04:09 AM
  #703
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Whitney scored 59 Points from the blueline as a 23/24 year old, 40 Points (in 76 games) the year after. He was basically the most promising offensive defenseman in the NHL 7-8 years ago. Then he ran into injury issues, and the Ducks took a gamble on him, and he never returned to the player he was.

No one could have foreseen that Kunitz was gonna have this year at 34 years of age. He's a 50-60 point player usually, and his character is greatly missed. But worst trade in franchise history? Not so much. They traded a 30 year old top six forward for a 26 year old top 4 defenseman. And Whitney did put up solid offensive numbers for the Ducks, problem was he couldn't QB the power play.

Also, they figured Scott Niedermayer wasn't going to be around much longer, and they had moved on from Mathieu Schneider. They were trying to re-tool the blueline with some young established NHL'er, because they didn't have any promising offensive defensemen in the prospect pool.


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05-06-2013, 06:26 AM
  #704
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Well, we didn't have any promising d-men that were close to the NHL at least.

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05-06-2013, 08:56 AM
  #705
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I remember at the time thinking that losing Kunitz hurt, but you have to give to get. I was excited about Whitney.

And he was good for that season. But then he was terrible. Things could have turned out better. But then Murray turned Whitney into Visnovsky, and THAT turned out great.

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05-06-2013, 12:44 PM
  #706
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Man I can't believe we're still talking about the Whitney trade. Ha!

But let I remind everyone that beyond Scotty and Prongs our D consisted off Brookbank, Hedican, Montador, Mikkelson and Salcido. We DESPERATELY needed a puck-moving d-man and Whitney was just what the doctor ordered. That was also when Beauch was sidelined with his torn ACL and we were not in a playoff spot at the time of the trade. We absolutely would not have made the playoffs if not for that trade and Ryan's play made moving Kunitz hurt less.

The funniest part about reading all the old posts about the trade was how mad so many people were about losing Tangradi. 81 games and 2 goals in four years with two different teams.

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05-06-2013, 12:58 PM
  #707
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Originally Posted by TheJoeMan View Post
Man I can't believe we're still talking about the Whitney trade. Ha!

But let I remind everyone that beyond Scotty and Prongs our D consisted off Brookbank, Hedican, Montador, Mikkelson and Salcido. We DESPERATELY needed a puck-moving d-man and Whitney was just what the doctor ordered. That was also when Beauch was sidelined with his torn ACL and we were not in a playoff spot at the time of the trade. We absolutely would not have made the playoffs if not for that trade and Ryan's play made moving Kunitz hurt less.

The funniest part about reading all the old posts about the trade was how mad so many people were about losing Tangradi. 81 games and 2 goals in four years with two different teams.
Tangradi was HF top 50 prospect AFTER he was traded. Ofcourse we were mad

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05-06-2013, 06:04 PM
  #708
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I'm worried that we haven't signed William Karlsson, yet. I'm beginning to think that we're going to lose him.

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05-06-2013, 06:10 PM
  #709
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I'm worried that we haven't signed William Karlsson, yet. I'm beginning to think that we're going to lose him.
What's the deadline to sign him? I really hope we don't lose him - I think he could be a very good 2nd line centre for us down the road.

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05-06-2013, 06:13 PM
  #710
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Sometime in June, I think.

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05-06-2013, 06:19 PM
  #711
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Losing another 2nd round pick whose value has gone significantly up since we drafted them would be a real disappointment. I hope Murray can bring him in. If we lose Karlsson, we might need to re-evaluate letting our prospects stay complacent for so long. Obviously its their choice, but maybe we should start putting more pressure on these kids so sign younger before their options open up.

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05-06-2013, 06:35 PM
  #712
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
I'm worried that we haven't signed William Karlsson, yet. I'm beginning to think that we're going to lose him.
Can anybody explain the convoluted signing rules that apply to a Euro drafted player?

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05-06-2013, 06:36 PM
  #713
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Originally Posted by Selanne138 View Post
Losing another 2nd round pick whose value has gone significantly up since we drafted them would be a real disappointment. I hope Murray can bring him in. If we lose Karlsson, we might need to re-evaluate letting our prospects stay complacent for so long. Obviously its their choice, but maybe we should start putting more pressure on these kids so sign younger before their options open up.
LOL what if we just draft him again

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05-06-2013, 07:02 PM
  #714
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Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
Can anybody explain the convoluted signing rules that apply to a Euro drafted player?
I just had a look around - it seems to be exactly the same as a junior player now - Karlsson has to be signed by June 1st or he can go back into the draft. Tim Erixon was dealt on June 1st when the Flames couldn't re-sign him and the Rags immediately signed him to an ELC.

Edit: Here's an article about Erixon's situation.

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05-06-2013, 07:09 PM
  #715
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Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
I just had a look around - it seems to be exactly the same as a junior player now - Karlsson has to be signed by June 1st or he can go back into the draft. Tim Erixon was dealt on June 1st when the Flames couldn't re-sign him and the Rags immediately signed him to an ELC.

Edit: Here's an article about Erixon's situation.
I remember a bit of the Erixon situation. Didn't he have some issue where he didn't want to be in Calgary? Sounds like Karlsson is more like Schultz in that we supposedly have not heard anything out of him. Did I miss any rumors of him not liking ANA? or just wanting to be somewhere else? Going back into the draft doesn't get him the team of his choice so that would almost sound like he doesn't want to be here.

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05-06-2013, 07:52 PM
  #716
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Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
I remember a bit of the Erixon situation. Didn't he have some issue where he didn't want to be in Calgary? Sounds like Karlsson is more like Schultz in that we supposedly have not heard anything out of him. Did I miss any rumors of him not liking ANA? or just wanting to be somewhere else? Going back into the draft doesn't get him the team of his choice so that would almost sound like he doesn't want to be here.
Yeah Erixon didn't want to be in Calgary and used going back into the draft as leverage to go to a team of his choice. I have no idea what Karlsson's intentions are. Another reason to go back into the draft is if he's taken in the first round he will be able to negotiate a higher ELC that probably has better bonuses. But going in with that mindset has rarely worked out for the prospect doing it.

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05-06-2013, 07:57 PM
  #717
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Sounds weird if Karlsson wouldn't want to sign for Ducks with our Swedish youth movement. He has played with Rakell and Friberg on the junior national teams for ages now.

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05-06-2013, 10:33 PM
  #718
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Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
Yeah Erixon didn't want to be in Calgary and used going back into the draft as leverage to go to a team of his choice. I have no idea what Karlsson's intentions are. Another reason to go back into the draft is if he's taken in the first round he will be able to negotiate a higher ELC that probably has better bonuses. But going in with that mindset has rarely worked out for the prospect doing it.
By the time he gets done paying his agent and paying taxes does it really amount to much more than an extra happy meal each payday? I think the max was going up about $50K/year the last couple years. I believe we can still pay him the max per that year, regardless of where he was drafted. I don't recall ELCs being an issue in the new CBA.

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05-06-2013, 11:24 PM
  #719
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Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
By the time he gets done paying his agent and paying taxes does it really amount to much more than an extra happy meal each payday? I think the max was going up about $50K/year the last couple years. I believe we can still pay him the max per that year, regardless of where he was drafted. I don't recall ELCs being an issue in the new CBA.
We can pay him whatever but teams and players can use draft position as leverage to get better deals. I agree with you in that I highly doubt that's the issue in this case but it has come up in the past - IIRC it was an issue with us not signing Scott Valentine a few years ago.

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05-07-2013, 12:08 AM
  #720
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We can pay him whatever but teams and players can use draft position as leverage to get better deals. I agree with you in that I highly doubt that's the issue in this case but it has come up in the past - IIRC it was an issue with us not signing Scott Valentine a few years ago.
Seems to me that if Karlsson has improved his game to where he would now be a first round pick BM has to bite the bullet and pay him first round money. Like it or not, that's just how the game is played. It's not like it's a huge difference. And, anyway, he only gets paid if he makes the team during the ELC. If he bombs in the A it doesn't cost anything other than minor league salary.

I hope BM is offering him top dollar. It just would be silly to lose him over that kind of money.

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05-07-2013, 03:45 AM
  #721
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The funniest part about reading all the old posts about the trade was how mad so many people were about losing Tangradi. 81 games and 2 goals in four years with two different teams.
And a few days later, people were upset for losing Eric O'Dell for Erik Christensen.

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05-07-2013, 09:19 AM
  #722
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Yeah Erixon didn't want to be in Calgary and used going back into the draft as leverage to go to a team of his choice. I have no idea what Karlsson's intentions are. Another reason to go back into the draft is if he's taken in the first round he will be able to negotiate a higher ELC that probably has better bonuses. But going in with that mindset has rarely worked out for the prospect doing it.
Trying to get 1st round money may be a reason, but it's not a good bet. Redrafts normally go later than where they were originally picked.

I'm too lazy to look this up, but when is the last time a redraft even got in the 1st round? Even the 2nd round seems rare, but I seem to recall it happening once or twice. At least with former Ducks prospects (who we follow), they generally go a round or two later.


If he wants money he'll have to wait 2 more years, like Schultz. That's 2 more years of lost wages, but his league probably pays a decent amount. It might even be more than he would make in the AHL.

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05-09-2013, 12:21 PM
  #723
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Maybe Rakkel wants to be certain about a roster spot in the future, I mean Ducks are stacked for the 3rd/4th line C. I think its going to be a rotating door next year. Boudrea will probably want test everyone out there (Rakkel/Holland/Laganiere/Saurault)

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05-09-2013, 04:25 PM
  #724
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Without boring you with all the specifics, the Nashville blueline is very crowded next year, and it seems like Blum is the most likely odd man out. Personally, I love the guy, but he doesn't seem to be meshing with the squad, and we need roster spots.

Are you interested? He's from SoCal, which is an added bonus. We don't have a pick between #4 and #64, so I'd think Poile would want to add one in there. Would you do your 1st (likely late) for Blum+3rd (which we have two of)?

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05-09-2013, 05:37 PM
  #725
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Without boring you with all the specifics, the Nashville blueline is very crowded next year, and it seems like Blum is the most likely odd man out. Personally, I love the guy, but he doesn't seem to be meshing with the squad, and we need roster spots.

Are you interested? He's from SoCal, which is an added bonus. We don't have a pick between #4 and #64, so I'd think Poile would want to add one in there. Would you do your 1st (likely late) for Blum+3rd (which we have two of)?
I actually know Blum pretty darn well. He played in Arteisa for California Wave. My cousin played with him over at East West Ice Palace before he went to play for the Vancouver Giants. I'm just not sure if he can take a top pairing role on our squad right now.

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