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All Encompassing Tortorella..ella..ella..eh..eh...and Glen Cigar Thread Part IV

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05-06-2013, 01:01 PM
  #301
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
You really think not finding talent is the issue here? Idk. I think there are a lot of parallels between the way the Giants draft and the way the Rangers draft. The Rangers rely heavier on free agency and trades but that's just the differences in sports.
Yeah, it is an issue. When was the last time the Giants made a move where they paid a player for what he's don't not for what he will do (a move like Richards)?

How many times have the Giants made "one player" away moves?

The Giants find guys who fit into their system and philosophy. The Rangers don't.

You're right that it's hard to compare two sports, but there is a huge difference in philosophy and the ability to spot and add talent between the two

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05-06-2013, 01:02 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Sather retooled the bottom-6 at the deadline.

It's a LOT better now. The Rangers have three legitimate top-nine units and a solid fourth line. Before, they had two capable top-nine units, a weak third line and an AHL-caliber fourth line. He also managed to shore up the bottom pair with the acquisition of Moore.

I, myself, like the roster that's currently constructed, to an extent. I'd like to see Richards replaced with a more capable, faster second line center (I like Brassard, but I like him even more in a sheltered third line role), but otherwise, I'm rather fine with going into next season with this roster.

Tortorella, however, I'd like to see replaced if the Rangers are eliminated early, of course. The roster needs to be given a chance with a different coach. This isn't 08-09 where Renney objectively wasn't the problem, the roster was. This team has defensive depth, a good combination of skill and two-way ability in the top-nine, and, of course, an elite goaltender.

I'd like to see a first time HC, not one of the 'old-guard' or a retread, like Lindy Ruff. Maybe get a guy like Horacek, Eakins, or even Guy Boucher.
So you've given Tortorella 14 games with the roster you now deem satisfactory. That doesnt seem a little impatient to you?

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05-06-2013, 01:03 PM
  #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Yeah, it is an issue. When was the last time the Giants made a move where they paid a player for what he's don't not for what he will do (a move like Richards)?

How many times have the Giants made "one player" away moves?

The Giants find guys who fit into their system and philosophy. The Rangers don't.

You're right that it's hard to compare two sports, but there is a huge difference in philosophy and the ability to spot and add talent between the two
Well, football is never about one player away moves. Unless the player is a QB.

The Giants have made some bad signings, though. The most recent one that comes to mind is Canty. I liked the guy, but he was overpaid, over-injured, and just did not provide for the Giants what he did for the Cowboys.

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05-06-2013, 01:04 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post

I'm tired of the lazy, expected moves.
Mark Messier as the next Rangers GM - come on down!

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05-06-2013, 01:05 PM
  #305
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The comparison between the Giants and Rangers is hard because, despite all the awesome success, if the NFL had 7 game playoff series', us Giants fans might be singing a few different tunes.

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05-06-2013, 01:05 PM
  #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Mark Messier as the next Rangers GM - come on down!
I could not care less if Messier is the GM if he can actually find talent. Creativity is overrated. Winning is not.

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05-06-2013, 01:06 PM
  #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Richards View Post
The comparison between the Giants and Rangers is hard because, despite all the awesome success, if the NFL had 7 game playoff series', us Giants fans might be singing a few different tunes.
Could be, but teams go on streaks all the time. Look at the Kings.

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05-06-2013, 01:08 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
So you've given Tortorella 14 games with the roster you now deem satisfactory. That doesnt seem a little impatient to you?
If we go out in four or five playoff games? No. If we get to the second round or farther? Would not be 100% against Tortorella staying on with an incredibly short leash based on how the team starts off the regular season.

I don't think that the team is going to go anywhere with the style that Tortorella employs. Not even the meme of "dump and chase". I hate the collapsing defensive zone strategy that doesn't pressure the opposing team at all, the PP has been an abomination, and there is hardly even a forecheck anymore.

Scoring has been a problem in the playoffs each time Tortorella has been at the helm, with several differently constructed rosters. None of them could score.

I've wanted Tortorella gone for awhile now. I'm hoping it happens in the offseason, barring a cup win, but I expect it to happen in the middle of next season, and I expect this team to perform a lot better if given a capable coach.

This isn't to say I don't want Sather gone — I do. I want to see some fresh blood in the organization. That being said, I don't think the roster that Sather constructed should be struggling to score this badly. Much easier to try a new coach than changing the roster dramatically again.

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05-06-2013, 01:10 PM
  #309
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As always to the people that want to replace the coach -- who is the "capable coach" you want to replace him with? Don't just say you want him fired. That's lazy and easy. Who are we replacing Torts with? Who are we betting the rest of Hank's prime on to win us a Cup?

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05-06-2013, 01:10 PM
  #310
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I've been a big supporter of Tortorella the past couple of years, but I have to admit my patience is wearing thin. It definitely seems like he does not get the best out of this team and it's annoying watching the way he handles the media.

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05-06-2013, 01:12 PM
  #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
As always to the people that want to replace the coach -- who is the "capable coach" you want to replace him with? Don't just say you want him fired. That's lazy and easy. Who are we replacing Torts with? Who are we betting the rest of Hank's career on to win us a Cup?
I suggested Eakins, Horacek (I think, he's a guy in the Preds organization, might be a different name I'm thinking of), or Boucher.

Obviously if there aren't any coaches available that don't suck, I guess we're stuck with Torts, but honestly, do you see this team going anywhere with Tortorella? That's my question.

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05-06-2013, 01:12 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
So you've given Tortorella 14 games with the roster you now deem satisfactory. That doesnt seem a little impatient to you?
In 4yrs Tortorella and his asst. haven't been able to develop a functioning power play. NOt elite or very good.... functioning. With a top 6 including Nash, Gaborik, Richards, Callahan, etc. we were next to last. Since his arrival this team can barely score 2g a game, and even less during the post season.

You would like to make it sound like it's blind hatred that is behind the call to remove Tortorella, when it's not. The man admitted publicly "we don't coach offense". Given our historic lack of offense, what more do we need see from this man?

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05-06-2013, 01:13 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Mark Messier as the next Rangers GM - come on down!
It's post like these that make a smiley of blowing your own head off necessary. :guninmouth:

Seriously though I hope that day never comes, unless it means that Glen Sather has outlived us. In that case, welcome back, Mess!

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05-06-2013, 01:14 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
If we go out in four or five playoff games? No. If we get to the second round or farther? Would not be 100% against Tortorella staying on with an incredibly short leash based on how the team starts off the regular season.

I don't think that the team is going to go anywhere with the style that Tortorella employs. Not even the meme of "dump and chase". I hate the collapsing defensive zone strategy that doesn't pressure the opposing team at all, the PP has been an abomination, and there is hardly even a forecheck anymore.

Scoring has been a problem in the playoffs each time Tortorella has been at the helm, with several differently constructed rosters. None of them could score.

I've wanted Tortorella gone for awhile now. I'm hoping it happens in the offseason, barring a cup win, but I expect it to happen in the middle of next season, and I expect this team to perform a lot better if given a capable coach.

This isn't to say I don't want Sather gone I do. I want to see some fresh blood in the organization. That being said, I don't think the roster that Sather constructed should be struggling to score this badly. Much easier to try a new coach than changing the roster dramatically again.
I agree. Collapsing in the defensive zone and giving the opposing point men a good 20-25 feet to work with is maddening. The breakout and transition game is enough to make me want to throw the remote through the TV.

But with that said, I dont buy into the notion that Tortorella's shelf life has expired here. Hes coming off the franchise's most successful season in almost 20 years less than a year ago. Only 50 games of hockey have been played since then - many of them with radically different rosters.

I think hes earned the right to see if he can adjust next season with (hopefully) a stable roster. Will he? Thats a good question. I bet he will if Sather tells him his job is at stake.

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05-06-2013, 01:14 PM
  #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
I suggested Eakins, Horacek, or Boucher.

Obviously if there aren't any coaches available that don't suck, I guess we're stuck with Torts, but honestly, do you see this team going anywhere with Tortorella? That's my question.
Boucher? Yuck. No.

Eakins is a HUGE gamble. Really tough to go with an AHL coach for this team.

Who is Horacek?

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05-06-2013, 01:15 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Who should be the coach? Young guy. First HC job in NHL. Another experienced guy. The Caps were terrible for the first 2 months of the season. Oates is a first time coach. He would have been run of town if he was the Rangers HC. Moved Alex to the RW. Gaborik balked at switching sides. Oates wouldn't play D on their opposite sides. MacLean in Ottawa is another first timer.
Hey, I know, let's get the guy who just finished 30th overall?

Torts coached a loaded team in Tampa to the 30th overal spot.

Before Torts, we had Renney. Canned after 1.5y in Van and no support from Mess.

Sather hadn't had success in 20 years.

Muckler was an avg GM.

Low had avg results in EDM.

Trottier a rookie.

Campbell a rookie.

Keenan one of the best coaches when we got him.

Hey I know, let's get someone who is doing a good job somewhere else?

There is no cap on coaches. Give Babcock or whoever 10m per.

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05-06-2013, 01:16 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
In 4yrs Tortorella and his asst. haven't been able to develop a functioning power play. NOt elite or very good.... functioning. With a top 6 including Nash, Gaborik, Richards, Callahan, etc. we were next to last. Since his arrival this team can barely score 2g a game, and even less during the post season.

You would like to make it sound like it's blind hatred that is behind the call to remove Tortorella, when it's not. The man admitted publicly "we don't coach offense". Given our historic lack of offense, what more do we need see from this man?
I dont think its blind hatred. I think its misguided. You have a point about the PP - the rest of your post is riddled with holes, conjecture, and just plain mistruths.

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05-06-2013, 01:16 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Boucher? Yuck. No.

Eakins is a HUGE gamble. Really tough to go with an AHL coach for this team.

Who is Horacek?
Read my edit, I may be thinking of someone completely different. I'm not great with names.

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05-06-2013, 01:18 PM
  #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Read my edit, I may be thinking of someone completely different. I'm not great with names.
The only Horacek searches showed was a "Tony" Horacek. Former Flyers player who currently coaches the Lebanon Valley College squad. You clearly meant him.

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05-06-2013, 01:20 PM
  #320
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The only Horacek searches showed was a "Tony" Horacek. Former Flyers player who currently coaches the Lebanon Valley College squad. You clearly meant him.
Maybe. I remember reading about a guy named Horacek being a great up and coming coach.

Eakins would be my main target, though, I like him a lot. So does the Toronto organization, though.

Speaking of coaches, I wonder if Mike Sullivan leaves soon to become an NHL HC. It's been rumoured before. Avs coach spot is open.

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05-06-2013, 01:23 PM
  #321
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As always to the people that want to replace the coach -- who is the "capable coach" you want to replace him with? Don't just say you want him fired. That's lazy and easy. Who are we replacing Torts with? Who are we betting the rest of Hank's prime on to win us a Cup?
Theres got to be an 80's Oiler alum that hasn't had a shot here yet no ?

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05-06-2013, 01:28 PM
  #322
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
As always to the people that want to replace the coach -- who is the "capable coach" you want to replace him with? Don't just say you want him fired. That's lazy and easy. Who are we replacing Torts with? Who are we betting the rest of Hank's prime on to win us a Cup?
I would be happy with Lindy Ruff.

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05-06-2013, 01:29 PM
  #323
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Theres got to be an 80's Oiler alum that hasn't had a shot here yet no ?
Tikkanen!!

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05-06-2013, 01:32 PM
  #324
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Also, we all saw what Torts did last year with a relatively deep forward corps. This year it was lacking. So was the "glue" and "toughness" that they had last year. I think the bottom-6 needs to be revamped. Adding Clowe and Dorsett is a good start. Keep Asham healthy is another positive hopefully for next season. Try and get rid of Boyle, Pyatt and Powe and replace them. If you don't score or provide any toughness you are replaceable.

Nystrom. Torres. Stalberg. Bickell. Lapierre.

You need sandpaper and grit in the line-up. Either score, or provide energy. Pyatt, Powe and Boyle have provided nothing this season.

Richards can go too but I am sure he will be around another year.

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05-06-2013, 01:36 PM
  #325
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Anyone who actually coaches an offensive philosophy. You have the best goalie in the world, the main goal should be to attack! If you can score 3+ goals per game with Lundqvist in net, who will beat you?

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