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Old
05-06-2013, 04:04 PM
  #51
Kel Varnsen
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
I'm gonna give him the whole series before I pass judgement.
since when do you wait before jumping off the deep end?

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05-06-2013, 04:05 PM
  #52
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There's two guys Rangers fans will consistently bring up years and years after the fact: Denis Potvin and Brandon Dubinsky

I would say Sean Avery too but that's dying out.

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05-06-2013, 04:06 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
Definitely the better lineup. What was so great about last year was the abundance of guys that could play top six roles. So even if one guy got cold you could bump him down to the third and there were a couple of other guys that could slot right into the top six.
Agreed, now we don't have that luxury.

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05-06-2013, 04:07 PM
  #54
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Come on, bro, let's not make it personal.

BSB's opinion is very fair. The team has one goal in two games, and Nash has no points. He's here to lead the offense. While he has had chances, I don't think he's been as good as he should be. He's been better than all of our forwards sans Hagelin, but that isn't saying much. Again, one goal in two games.

We could blame the coach, like we always do. Nash has the ability to take over a game, though, and that's what he needs to do. It's the playoffs.
It isn't personal, I remember quite clearly how much he griped about things in the first few games.

The funny thing is I didn't disagree with the fact that Nash needed to be better...

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Old
05-06-2013, 04:07 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
since when do you wait before jumping off the deep end?
He's still pretty new here. It's at least 100 games into their tenure before I start condemning players in satanic rituals

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Old
05-06-2013, 04:10 PM
  #56
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I thought Stepan had a few decent chances in game 1 and should have had a beautiful assist. He had 1 good play in game 2 and was invisible the rest of the game.

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Old
05-06-2013, 04:17 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
I don't think Girardi and McDonagh have been that bad either, but I don't want to get my flame suit here.

Biggest disappointment is obviously Richards, but everyone else played up to their capabilities.
You're the most confusing poster ever. You think good players are bad and bad players are good

I think those two took a step back this season, they haven't been abysmal like some would want you to believe, but certainly not up to last years standards.

I think as a team we didn't play nearly as complete of a game as we did last year, way way too many small mistakes and mental lapses. Couple that with our best players not always playing their best and we have this season.

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Old
05-06-2013, 04:20 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
I think as a team we didn't play nearly as complete of a game as we did last year, way way too many small mistakes and mental lapses. Couple that with our best players not always playing their best and we have this season.
You can blame that to depth being thrown away in the Nash trade. Also letting go of Feds Prust for Pyatt Asham

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Old
05-06-2013, 04:25 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
You can blame that to depth being thrown away in the Nash trade. Also letting go of Feds Prust for Pyatt Asham
I'm not going to blame it on the loss of Dubinsky and Anisimov, that's a part of it but they don't determine how well other players play and many of our players underachieved for stretches of the season.

Prust and Feds? They are definitely missed, more so than Dubinsky and Anisimov IMO.

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Old
05-06-2013, 04:34 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
The old Nash thread was locked, so I figured i'd make another one.

Are we still happy with him? My answer is a resounding no. I'm curious what other Rangers fans think, but i'm starting to sour on him. Sure, it's two games into the playoffs but he's looked awful in both of them sans one chance in game 2, and I think if it wasn't for Stepan pulling us into the playoffs I would've soured on his inability to carry the team long ago. If it wasn't for the fact it was a short season i'd be all on the overrated bandwagon, and right now I already think he's just as much a floater as everybody cried Gabby was, but i'm willing to give him one more playoffs before I truly dislike him.

Hopefully he suddenly wakes up. Another typical performance in game 3 is beyond unacceptable.
Callahan has produced an extremely underwhelming season, have you soured on him? McDonagh has had some pretty bad lapses lately, are you starting to sour on him? Girardi has be beyond awful this season, you should have soured on him. Hagelin hasn't done as much lately as when the season started (and when HE was the one carrying the team), souring on him too? Stepan, Nash, and Lundqvist (and arguably Hagelin) are the 3 (or 4) reasons we're in the playoffs. The rest of the team has played at an unacceptable level by anyone's standard.

Like someone said, half an inch to the right and he had the GWG in game 2 and your post would be praising him for showing up and scoring a clutch goal and carrying this team.

My only complaint with Nash is, when he falls/loses an edge/gets tied up with someone/etc, it takes him at least 10-15 seconds to get back on his feet and back in the play 9.9 times out of 10. That's the most infuriating thing he does, and he does it constantly. Not sure if he's trying to draw penalties or what, but he literally takes and keeps himself out of the play.

It's amazing how severely and quickly the "shiny new toy" syndrome runs its course in Ranger fans.

Guys like Prust/Fedotenko/Prospal gave this club something it has lacked for a long time: Personality and consistent shift-after-shift heart. Callahan perfectly embodied that last season, but this season he fell off the rails. The only player we've managed to keep that is anything even close to consistent is Lundqvist. It feels like the roster, as is, has zero personality. They're just guys going out there to play a game they were hired for and to collect a paycheck. And yes, I know that's exactly what everyone signed to a pro sports contract is doing. But watching the Rangers play, it feels so empty and I don't know how else to explain it.


Last edited by ck20: 05-06-2013 at 04:43 PM.
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Old
05-06-2013, 04:52 PM
  #61
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Prust, yes. Fedotenko absolutely not.
Id' say in order of importance:

Prust
Dubinsky
Anisimov
Fedotenko

These guys were good bottom-6ers but aside from Prust are entirely replaceable, especially for their commanded cap-hits. We need to upgrade our bottom-6 a bit (grit, PK) but many posters act as if letting Feds and Johnny freaking Malkin walk away is why we're a worse team this year. Got Nash to put us over the edge offensively, top players didn't produce, terrible depth didn't make it up. Trade Gabby for depth, now we need more scorers. It just never ends.

Particularly in the playoffs, we need to spread out our toughness to create space for Nash, Stepan and co. to make plays. We have the right personnel, its how they're used that pisses me off. Every time a team (nonetheless built for the playoffs) pushes around our skill players, they disappear. Clowe, Dorsett, and Callahan need to play top-9 minutes, bang bodies, create space, and defend their line mates. And we can't take a 3 on 2 and use dump-and-chase as our main strategy of attack. It's that simple.

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Old
05-06-2013, 05:24 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
I missed Stepan on that top 6, my bad. Thanks to the poster who pointed it out.

Hagelin-Stepan-Callahan
Dubinsky-Anisimov-Zuccarello
Clowe-Richards-Brassard
Dorsett-Boyle-Asham

I prefer that to

Hagelin-Stepan-Nash
Clowe-Richards-Zuccarello
Dorsett-Brassard-Pyatt
Powe-Boyle-Asham

2nd lineup is absolutely dreadful compared to the 1rst IMO. #1 is way more balanced and probably fits team identity more.

edit: Thanks KreiderTheGlider
You forgot Callahan in the 2nd lineup. Just give up.

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Old
05-06-2013, 05:35 PM
  #63
Kel Varnsen
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
I'm not going to blame it on the loss of Dubinsky and Anisimov, that's a part of it but they don't determine how well other players play and many of our players underachieved for stretches of the season.

Prust and Feds? They are definitely missed, more so than Dubinsky and Anisimov IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Callafan24 View Post
Prust, yes. Fedotenko absolutely not.
Id' say in order of importance:

Prust
Dubinsky
Anisimov
Fedotenko

These guys were good bottom-6ers but aside from Prust are entirely replaceable, especially for their commanded cap-hits. We need to upgrade our bottom-6 a bit (grit, PK) but many posters act as if letting Feds and Johnny freaking Malkin walk away is why we're a worse team this year. Got Nash to put us over the edge offensively, top players didn't produce, terrible depth didn't make it up. Trade Gabby for depth, now we need more scorers. It just never ends.

Particularly in the playoffs, we need to spread out our toughness to create space for Nash, Stepan and co. to make plays. We have the right personnel, its how they're used that pisses me off. Every time a team (nonetheless built for the playoffs) pushes around our skill players, they disappear. Clowe, Dorsett, and Callahan need to play top-9 minutes, bang bodies, create space, and defend their line mates. And we can't take a 3 on 2 and use dump-and-chase as our main strategy of attack. It's that simple.
I really don't get how the HF board party line on the depth guys last year jives with the HF board party line regarding what our offensive problem is.

On the depth guys Prust is the most is the most important, and often Dubi is minimized. On the offensive problems side people complain we don't carry in well or hold onto the puck well and we grind too much.

If someone can reconcile these ideas I'd love to hear it.

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Old
05-06-2013, 05:46 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
I missed Stepan on that top 6, my bad. Thanks to the poster who pointed it out.

Hagelin-Stepan-Callahan
Dubinsky-Anisimov-Zuccarello
Clowe-Richards-Brassard
Dorsett-Boyle-Asham

I prefer that to

Hagelin-Stepan-Nash
Clowe-Richards-Zuccarello
Dorsett-Brassard-Pyatt
Powe-Boyle-Asham

2nd lineup is absolutely dreadful compared to the 1rst IMO. #1 is way more balanced and probably fits team identity more.

edit: Thanks KreiderTheGlider
This assumes that CBJ would have made the Gaborik trade exactly the same way without ever trading Nash. I doubt that would have happened.

Also, it's easy to say this team has looked bad in 2 playoff games so this other lineup would be better. I bet that if that other lineup were 0-2 against the Caps, this thread would be about how we should have gotten Nash when we had the chance. It's easy to criticize a choice when the other option will never, ever come to fruition.

Personally, I'd make both trades again every time.

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Old
05-06-2013, 05:52 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
On the depth guys Prust is the most is the most important, and often Dubi is minimized. On the offensive problems side people complain we don't carry in well or hold onto the puck well and we grind too much.
I mean, I can only speak for myself but I believe Prust and Dubi are our biggest roster losses from last year's squad. Those two were Torts-type players, leaders, and absolute warriors that stuck up for their teammates and played with an edge, which is something we have severely lacked this season. Unfortunately management decided that they both priced (and played, to an extent) their way out of NY. As far as offense, again my opinion, but it's incredibly frustrating to watch a team with, dare I say, a lot of talent constantly dump the puck in even when other options are available. If nothings there i'm all about sending it in and pressing the D with a solid forecheck, but I think this team generates the most offense when someone grows a pair and enters the zone, stops, and sets up a play while the other forwards are getting in scoring lanes and crashing the net.

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Old
05-06-2013, 05:54 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
I missed Stepan on that top 6, my bad. Thanks to the poster who pointed it out.

Hagelin-Stepan-Callahan
Dubinsky-Anisimov-Zuccarello
Clowe-Richards-Brassard
Dorsett-Boyle-Asham

I prefer that to

Hagelin-Stepan-Nash
Clowe-Richards-Zuccarello
Dorsett-Brassard-Pyatt
Powe-Boyle-Asham

2nd lineup is absolutely dreadful compared to the 1rst IMO. #1 is way more balanced and probably fits team identity more.

edit: Thanks KreiderTheGlider
I actually prefer the 2nd lineup + Callahan to the 1st on paper.
Just major underachieving on their part this season.

________


Back to Rick Nash:

He is one of the reasons we've only scored 1 (lucky) goal in 2 games. I didn't even realize he was playing until midway through the 2nd.

I agree with some of the others posters. Nash isn't a franchise player because he doesn't show up every second of every game.

He sort of reminds me of Gaborik because sometimes he just puts on cruise control and goes through the motions.

At the very least, a man of Nash's size should be working hard on the boards and making plays with his physicality.

And I've also noticed the Caps have been pressuring him with 2 men whenever he gets the puck. He needs to utilize his teammates more. Too many times I've seen him try to do everything himself.

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05-06-2013, 05:59 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
I really don't get how the HF board party line on the depth guys last year jives with the HF board party line regarding what our offensive problem is.

On the depth guys Prust is the most is the most important, and often Dubi is minimized. On the offensive problems side people complain we don't carry in well or hold onto the puck well and we grind too much.

If someone can reconcile these ideas I'd love to hear it.
Why do they have to jive? They are two separate issues, I think our 3rd line was more effective on the forecheck last year which over the course of the game can be used to wear opposing players down, once that is done you get the match ups you want and it allows your offense to expose said worn down opposition.

We had solid possession time all year, not entirely sure why that's being considered our problem. Lack of creativity and inability to go to the net seem like more obvious issues.

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05-06-2013, 06:23 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
Why do they have to jive? They are two separate issues, I think our 3rd line was more effective on the forecheck last year which over the course of the game can be used to wear opposing players down, once that is done you get the match ups you want and it allows your offense to expose said worn down opposition.

We had solid possession time all year, not entirely sure why that's being considered our problem. Lack of creativity and inability to go to the net seem like more obvious issues.
Our possession time (and quality of possession) is just as bad this year as it was last post-season (to the eye at least).

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05-06-2013, 08:16 PM
  #69
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Not even gonna bother with Barb because he clearly is mad about me ripping on the team earlier in the year when they were ****ing garbage. Nash a no show tonight, again. But I clearly have an agenda.

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05-06-2013, 08:16 PM
  #70
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Last time his excuse for not producing was because he was against Lidstrom and had no help on his roster. What about this year?

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05-06-2013, 08:19 PM
  #71
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Most playoff caliber defensemen aren't going to let him walk in and deke the goaltender. He needs to shoot.

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05-06-2013, 08:55 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
The old Nash thread was locked, so I figured i'd make another one.

Are we still happy with him? My answer is a resounding no. I'm curious what other Rangers fans think, but i'm starting to sour on him. Sure, it's two games into the playoffs but he's looked awful in both of them sans one chance in game 2, and I think if it wasn't for Stepan pulling us into the playoffs I would've soured on his inability to carry the team long ago. If it wasn't for the fact it was a short season i'd be all on the overrated bandwagon, and right now I already think he's just as much a floater as everybody cried Gabby was, but i'm willing to give him one more playoffs before I truly dislike him.

Hopefully he suddenly wakes up. Another typical performance in game 3 is beyond unacceptable.
It's posts like this and posters like you that make this forum very intolerable and the reason I rarely post. If it wast for Nash and Henke NYR wouldn't be in the playoffs. Nash carried NYR to the playoffs he's been golden,he's all new to this playoff thing honestly.

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05-06-2013, 09:13 PM
  #73
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It's posts like this and posters like you that make this forum very intolerable and the reason I rarely post. If it wast for Nash and Henke NYR wouldn't be in the playoffs. Nash carried NYR to the playoffs he's been golden,he's all new to this playoff thing honestly.
You're underrating Stepan.

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05-06-2013, 09:21 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by JayQueensNY88 View Post
It's posts like this and posters like you that make this forum very intolerable and the reason I rarely post. If it wast for Nash and Henke NYR wouldn't be in the playoffs. Nash carried NYR to the playoffs he's been golden,he's all new to this playoff thing honestly.
We gave up quite the prize to bring in your golden boy
And his beefy contract is not going away either
He needs to start putting up in this "playoff thing" now
Period
Or the critics of Nash are right
And I am not usually one of them

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Old
05-06-2013, 09:24 PM
  #75
Barbara Underhill
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Not even gonna bother with Barb because he clearly is mad about me ripping on the team earlier in the year when they were ****ing garbage. Nash a no show tonight, again. But I clearly have an agenda.
Only assisted on the GWG...

He now has one less point in this series than the greatest player to ever play.

Look I'm not mad at you for anything, you can drop it and stop with the little jabs. Obviously our opinions differ.


Last edited by Barbara Underhill: 05-06-2013 at 09:32 PM.
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