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2013 NHL Draft Thread II (6/30, 3PM EDT)

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Old
05-05-2013, 09:22 PM
  #976
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Originally Posted by major major View Post
Everyone knows, or at least thinks they know, that this draft is better than last year's, and that Mackinnon is better than Murray. Tampa knows this, and their fans want another asset to even out the deal. But they want a deal, and the folks I've talked to haven't demanded any more than the Kings first rounder to be the +. It seems to be a face saver, to account for the differences in talent between the two players.
This draft is better because it's deeper. That doesn't mean that Ryan Murray wouldn't still go in the top 3 or 4, had he been healthy and eligible this year.

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05-05-2013, 09:23 PM
  #977
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Quote:
Originally Posted by major major View Post
why are folks acting like Murray is a mature asset and Mackinnon is a risky draft choice?
I think everyone sees that Mackinnon doesn't carry much risk. But let's be real here, this discussion is getting old. Everyone has stated their stances ad nauseam, and the odds that a trade is consummated for Mackinnon are pretty slim. Drouin is more likely a target in my opinion, as I just don't see Florida fielding any offers for their pick, which I assume to be Mack (I will gladly eat crow if otherwise).

Can we please stop talking about this? This thread is now a catalog of this topic; I think if someone wants to do some reading on the subject, they have more than enough material. We've covered basically everything. Obviously I can't force people not to talk about it, but I don't know what else we have to say. I love posting in the draft threads every year they're probably my favorite out of all of the topics we run though (insert cat/ball of thread meme here). But if this keeps going I don't know if I can even open this puppy up.

This isn't even about having differing opinions than others. Like I said, I post in these threads yearly, and I can't think of one where I didn't have disagreements with others. But this discussion has just gotten... boring.

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05-05-2013, 09:30 PM
  #978
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
...and, for debate's sake, who is making these "offers?" HF fans? How do these same fans know that the Lightning aren't all-in on Jonathan Drouin, and don't want anything else? Or, that another team hasn't come along and already worked out a deal with Steve Yzerman for that pick?

It's for reasons like this that message boards are for entertainment use only. Can't believe everything you read on here ... while it's true that there are some people who actually have some sort of inside knowledge, most people are merely speculating. While I am in somewhat tight with people all over the hockey world, I don't claim to have inside info on any upcoming trade/no trade stuff. And even if I did, I would probably remain tight lipped about it, so as to continue to get fed this knowledge before it happens.
I was responding to what folks on this board claim to know about Tampa's demands with what folks on Tampa's board claim to know about Tampa's demands. I presume neither group knows Jarmo/Stevie Y's opinions on the matter.

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05-05-2013, 09:33 PM
  #979
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Murray's value right now isn't as high as it was last year at this time. I don't think this is due to 'old versus new' syndrome but rather due to the fact that his progress this year couldn't be evaluated due to the injury. Provided he makes a full recovery from the shoulder injury, I see his stock rising again come training camp and in the fall.

From a pure asset management perspective, I feel that trading him now is a case of buying high (burning a 2nd overall pick) and selling low. I'd prefer to not make any trades with Murray at the draft. If down the road, it's in the CBJ's interest to trade Murray for offensive help, so be it. But I hope we can extract a king's ransom at that time - we can't now.

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05-05-2013, 09:44 PM
  #980
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Originally Posted by Ludicrous Speed View Post
I think everyone sees that Mackinnon doesn't carry much risk. But let's be real here, this discussion is getting old. Everyone has stated their stances ad nauseam, and the odds that a trade is consummated for Mackinnon are pretty slim. Drouin is more likely a target in my opinion, as I just don't see Florida fielding any offers for their pick, which I assume to be Mack (I will gladly eat crow if otherwise).

Can we please stop talking about this? This thread is now a catalog of this topic; I think if someone wants to do some reading on the subject, they have more than enough material. We've covered basically everything. Obviously I can't force people not to talk about it, but I don't know what else we have to say. I love posting in the draft threads every year – they're probably my favorite out of all of the topics we run though (insert cat/ball of thread meme here). But if this keeps going I don't know if I can even open this puppy up.

This isn't even about having differing opinions than others. Like I said, I post in these threads yearly, and I can't think of one where I didn't have disagreements with others. But this discussion has just gotten... boring.
Okay. I won't post on this topic anymore. Anyone want to make and post a top 25 draft list? I have no idea what's going on after about the first 15 players.

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05-05-2013, 11:27 PM
  #981
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1.)Jones
2.)Mackinnon
3.)Drouin
4.)Lindholm
5.)Monahan
6.)Barkov
7.)Ristolainen
8.)Nurse
9.)Nichushkin
10.)Shinkaruk
11.)Zadarov
12.)Pulock
13.)Zykov
14.)Domi
15.)Wennberg
16.)Mantha
17.)Gauthier
18.)Horvat
19.)Erne
20.)Morrissey
21.)Mueller
22.)Hagg
23.)Hartman
24.)Rychel
25.)Lazar
26.)Carrier
27.)Mcoshen
28.)Compher
29.)Burakovsky
30.)Morin

Really the first 20 or so I did off of what I personally believe teams could use. With CBJ being 14, 19, 23. After that it was just throwing them together.

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05-05-2013, 11:31 PM
  #982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludicrous Speed View Post
I think everyone sees that Mackinnon doesn't carry much risk. But let's be real here, this discussion is getting old. Everyone has stated their stances ad nauseam, and the odds that a trade is consummated for Mackinnon are pretty slim. Drouin is more likely a target in my opinion, as I just don't see Florida fielding any offers for their pick, which I assume to be Mack (I will gladly eat crow if otherwise).

Can we please stop talking about this? This thread is now a catalog of this topic; I think if someone wants to do some reading on the subject, they have more than enough material. We've covered basically everything. Obviously I can't force people not to talk about it, but I don't know what else we have to say. I love posting in the draft threads every year they're probably my favorite out of all of the topics we run though (insert cat/ball of thread meme here). But if this keeps going I don't know if I can even open this puppy up.

This isn't even about having differing opinions than others. Like I said, I post in these threads yearly, and I can't think of one where I didn't have disagreements with others. But this discussion has just gotten... boring.
I had mentioned many posts ago that I was also done dealing with this discussion, yet it keeps popping up. It's mind boggling, how quick guys get written off.

Back to topic is great with me. There's plenty to be excited about, a lot of guys to like in the range that we'll be picking.

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05-06-2013, 01:30 AM
  #983
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Originally Posted by slightlystewpid420 View Post
1.)Jones
2.)Mackinnon
3.)Drouin
4.)Lindholm
5.)Monahan
6.)Barkov
7.)Ristolainen
8.)Nurse
9.)Nichushkin
10.)Shinkaruk
11.)Zadarov
12.)Pulock
13.)Zykov
14.)Domi
15.)Wennberg
16.)Mantha
17.)Gauthier
18.)Horvat
19.)Erne
20.)Morrissey
21.)Mueller
22.)Hagg
23.)Hartman
24.)Rychel
25.)Lazar
26.)Carrier
27.)Mcoshen
28.)Compher
29.)Burakovsky
30.)Morin

Really the first 20 or so I did off of what I personally believe teams could use. With CBJ being 14, 19, 23. After that it was just throwing them together.
Domi, Erne, Hartman. I love the Domi and Hartman picks, but don't know a thing about Erne. What stands out about him?

I'll make a top 30 when I have a free hour or so to do some actual research, but that might be in a while. And when I do it'll be a "Jackets top 30" where you rank Jackets preferences, that's easier to make, and easier to debate.


Last edited by major major: 05-06-2013 at 01:36 AM.
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05-06-2013, 05:57 AM
  #984
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Here are a couple of sites that have multiple lists for your favorites list

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2013-nhl-d...spect-rankings

http://dcprosportsreport.com/NHLMocks


and here are the best (based on history) NHL Central Scouting

North Anerican skaters

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=9483

European skaters

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=9477

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05-06-2013, 06:14 AM
  #985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slightlystewpid420 View Post
1.)Jones
2.)Mackinnon
3.)Drouin
4.)Lindholm
5.)Monahan
6.)Barkov
7.)Ristolainen
8.)Nurse
9.)Nichushkin
10.)Shinkaruk
11.)Zadarov
12.)Pulock
13.)Zykov
14.)Domi
15.)Wennberg
16.)Mantha
17.)Gauthier
18.)Horvat
19.)Erne
20.)Morrissey
21.)Mueller
22.)Hagg
23.)Hartman
24.)Rychel
25.)Lazar
26.)Carrier
27.)Mcoshen
28.)Compher
29.)Burakovsky
30.)Morin

Really the first 20 or so I did off of what I personally believe teams could use. With CBJ being 14, 19, 23. After that it was just throwing them together.
Overall very nice. Domi at 14 is a steal, after lindholm he and shinkaruk are the next two most offensively gifted players., I hope he falls to us, but I have a feeling that if we really want him we're going to have to go get him. Erne at 19 is solid. Very much a three zone player which from the looks of Jarmo and Co.'s past drafts is the sort of player they like. I personally would like more offense, but at this point in the draft I like the pick (does carry a few question marks in the character department according to rumors, but I think it's getting blown out of proportion). At 23 Hartman is a good choice, though I would go with Rychel. Rychel could be the power forward to replace Nash, and IMO is a better finisher than Hartman is while at the same time possessing a game that fits the jackets mold better.

Random Thought: Given the giants that are the St. Louis Blues could Gauthier be a target at the draft?

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05-06-2013, 12:22 PM
  #986
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Unless I'm not following the draft rules correctly, Columbus currently hold the 14, 19 and 22 overall picks this year. Division winners put LAK at #22. Could improved depending on who makes the conference finals but can only get worse if LA gets through 2 rounds....

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05-06-2013, 12:43 PM
  #987
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I'm pretty certain we'll see 25 different lists of the top 25 players. As I hear more about the top players it seems the list beyond the top 4 continues to morph and grow. Some have even suggested that Barkov isn't top 4 any more (not me, I think he's #4) and that Nichushkin could go as high as #4, Russian contract or not.

Here's how I think I would group them. You'll see some groups larger than their draft slots because I think that's where the mess starts....

Group 1 - Jones (He appears to have truly separated himself from the rest so I'm putting him on an island)

Group 2 (draft 2-4) - Mackinnon, Drouin, Barkov

Group 3 (draft 5-7) - Lindholm, Monahan, Nichushkin

Group 4 (draft 8-12) - Nurse, Ristolainen, Zadorov, Shinkaruk, Wennberg, Horvat,

Group 5 (draft 13-20) - Horvat, Pulock, Mantha, Zykov, Gauthier, Lazar, Hagg, Morrissey

Group 6 (draft 20 and above) - Morin, Erne, Hartman, Rychel, Mueller, Fucale, Compher, Dickinson, Klimchuck, Lehkonen, Bailey, McCoshen, Burakovsky, Buchnevich, Dauphin, Theodore

Obviously this isn't where they will all slot especially when you hit groups 5 & 6. I think we'll see some surprises like we do every year. Does Nichushkin slide? does someone reach for a guy like Mueller or Fucale or Erne? At any rate, this is who I think will be the bulk of the first round. Gets fuzzy, for me, after group 3 in all honesty. Still looks pretty deep to me and the CBJ has a chance for three of these players. I may try a mock in the near future. Just not enough time to sit and think about it now....

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05-06-2013, 12:45 PM
  #988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphafox View Post
Random Thought: Given the giants that are the St. Louis Blues could Gauthier be a target at the draft?
I really like Gauthier, Horvat and Pulock as players with big upside. All seem like they could fit within CBJ mantra too.

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05-06-2013, 01:10 PM
  #989
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Overall very nice. Domi at 14 is a steal, after lindholm he and shinkaruk are the next two most offensively gifted players., I hope he falls to us, but I have a feeling that if we really want him we're going to have to go get him. Erne at 19 is solid. Very much a three zone player which from the looks of Jarmo and Co.'s past drafts is the sort of player they like. I personally would like more offense, but at this point in the draft I like the pick (does carry a few question marks in the character department according to rumors, but I think it's getting blown out of proportion). At 23 Hartman is a good choice, though I would go with Rychel. Rychel could be the power forward to replace Nash, and IMO is a better finisher than Hartman is while at the same time possessing a game that fits the jackets mold better.

Random Thought: Given the giants that are the St. Louis Blues could Gauthier be a target at the draft?
Only reason Domi made it to 14 is because I had 4 teams taking D in the top 13!
Erne I think is a sleeper, hes younger, hes an american with grit, dedication and isnt afraid to put his nose down. And I honestly dont know to much about Rychel, so hence me taking Hartman, I also wouldnt mind Lazar.

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05-06-2013, 02:03 PM
  #990
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slightlystewpid420 View Post
1.)Jones
2.)Mackinnon
3.)Drouin
4.)Lindholm
5.)Monahan
6.)Barkov
7.)Ristolainen
8.)Nurse
9.)Nichushkin
10.)Shinkaruk
11.)Zadarov
12.)Pulock
13.)Zykov
14.)Domi
15.)Wennberg
16.)Mantha
17.)Gauthier
18.)Horvat
19.)Erne
20.)Morrissey
21.)Mueller
22.)Hagg
23.)Hartman
24.)Rychel
25.)Lazar
26.)Carrier
27.)Mcoshen
28.)Compher
29.)Burakovsky
30.)Morin

Really the first 20 or so I did off of what I personally believe teams could use. With CBJ being 14, 19, 23. After that it was just throwing them together.
Why Barkov below Monahan and Lindholm?

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05-06-2013, 02:29 PM
  #991
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Keep reading that Horvat may be a real sleeper in this draft, some articles I have read compare to him Getzlaf anyone have thoughts on the type of game he plays ? Same with Domi ?

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05-06-2013, 03:13 PM
  #992
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Originally Posted by major major View Post
Everyone knows, or at least thinks they know, that this draft is better than last year's, and that Mackinnon is better than Murray. Tampa knows this, and their fans want another asset to even out the deal. But they want a deal, and the folks I've talked to haven't demanded any more than the Kings first rounder to be the +. It seems to be a face saver, to account for the differences in talent between the two players.
Tampa Bay has the 3rd pick, so why would we even trade with them? We would want MacKinnon and he probably will get drafted by Florida.

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05-06-2013, 04:18 PM
  #993
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Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
Unless I'm not following the draft rules correctly, Columbus currently hold the 14, 19 and 22 overall picks this year. Division winners put LAK at #22. Could improved depending on who makes the conference finals but can only get worse if LA gets through 2 rounds....
I think you're right. Which is why we want St L to knockout the KIngs and Ottawa, SJ,Detroit(speaking for myself & the good of the Blue Jackets) and the rest of the guys below the Kings & Rangers to advance to the next round.And hopefully the final 4.

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05-06-2013, 04:23 PM
  #994
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Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
Why Barkov below Monahan and Lindholm?
His injury causing him to miss the post season. No knocks against Barkov, just a what have you done for me lately type thing. Just causing a slight fall because from what I have heard Carolina seems to be gun-ho on Monahan. So nashville takes Lindholm, Carolina-Monahan and Barkov falls into the lap of Calgary. 7 Ristolainen gives EDM some grit on D, while Nurse provides a boost to the Sabres D.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
Tampa Bay has the 3rd pick, so why would we even trade with them? We would want MacKinnon and he probably will get drafted by Florida.
Drouin is every bit as good as Mackinnon.

Drouin-Johansen-Gaborik...


It also gives Johansen two twine seeking laser guided linemates who know how to finish. Something our roster has been lacking.


Last edited by BoonesJenner: 05-06-2013 at 04:29 PM.
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05-06-2013, 05:03 PM
  #995
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Originally Posted by slightlystewpid420 View Post
His injury causing him to miss the post season. No knocks against Barkov, just a what have you done for me lately type thing.
Well, Monahan's team missed the playoffs entirely and Lindholm's team was decimated and was swept in the first round.

But there is a chance Barkov slips. Teams have different takes on players and Barkov could be seen as having 1st line center potential or not having the offensive skill to quite live up to that and being a good 2nd line center. Add in the injury and questions on how he will adapt to North America, and that might push Lindholm or Monahan above him.

Or Lindholm or Monahan drop if players in the CHL playoffs make a big impression late in the season, like Domi, Zykov or Fucale moving up to the top 10. Most years some player(s) drop that is completely expected and drop into a team's lap - like Forsberg, Grigorenko and Fowler. The Jackets still likely will need to trade up to 10-12 if that happened but all it takes is a couple of teams to go off the board.

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05-06-2013, 05:13 PM
  #996
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Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
Tampa Bay has the 3rd pick, so why would we even trade with them? We would want MacKinnon and he probably will get drafted by Florida.
Because maybe we want Drouin or Barkov? idk

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05-06-2013, 06:01 PM
  #997
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Well, Monahan's team missed the playoffs entirely and Lindholm's team was decimated and was swept in the first round.

But there is a chance Barkov slips. Teams have different takes on players and Barkov could be seen as having 1st line center potential or not having the offensive skill to quite live up to that and being a good 2nd line center. Add in the injury and questions on how he will adapt to North America, and that might push Lindholm or Monahan above him.

Or Lindholm or Monahan drop if players in the CHL playoffs make a big impression late in the season, like Domi, Zykov or Fucale moving up to the top 10. Most years some player(s) drop that is completely expected and drop into a team's lap - like Forsberg, Grigorenko and Fowler. The Jackets still likely will need to trade up to 10-12 if that happened but all it takes is a couple of teams to go off the board.
Exactly. I mean from what I saw its 5 months of rehab, so who knows what teams take from that. From what I read earlier he's doing a bunch of bicycle work right now to make his legs stronger so he can keep up in the NA style of hockey. Also should help with Stamina and Endurance. It'd really be a miracle for him to drop, but I could see JK making a snag at him. If he drops past say 7 or 8 it would definitely be worth it to make a play for him, without a doubt. But I dont think thats possible. But people didnt think Fowler would drop, or Forsberg, or Tarenseko. So who knows. Even if things stay the way they are we're slated to at least have a shot at some potentially really good players.

Something I think being overlooked as well as the players we are drafting, is the environment they are coming to drafted by CBJ. The type of team this is(at least was last year) nothing like most NHL teams. Everybody put their fair share of hardwork. Not a single line was the #1 line out there. Which I think is a huge advantage over having your basic 1,2,3,4. If you have 4 situational lines all around the same skill level, than in theory your play shouldnt drop off, knowing your "4th line" can keep up, at least with the intensity and defensive play of the opposing teams 1st. With that being said, we need to find the RIGHT players to slot into our lineup. Not for this year or next year, but the overall direction you want the team to go. Having 3 first round picks could potentially help "stock the pond" for a few years to come, which is a very very good organizational problem to have.

But we need a true force in the top 6, somebody that could play between Cam and Matty Ice(Barkov ). And also we will need a true #1 winger to play opposite of Gaborik. I think this will be the season that management will expect Cam or Calvert to emerge as a #1. Howson had high hopes of Cam from the very beginning and didnt want him playing in the NHL unless he was putting up top 6 minutes. New management though, so honestly who knows. If the right player comes along the deal might get done, but I think the smart thing to do would be hold on to what you have until the deadline. Let the team catch their groove in the offseason and see what the season has in store.

At the very worst we have a fresh new batch of at least 4 top 60 picks to sit on for a season or two, while our current team can only grow and hopefully "score more goals"


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05-06-2013, 07:38 PM
  #998
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Originally Posted by slightlystewpid420 View Post
His injury causing him to miss the post season. No knocks against Barkov, just a what have you done for me lately type thing. Just causing a slight fall because from what I have heard Carolina seems to be gun-ho on Monahan. So nashville takes Lindholm, Carolina-Monahan and Barkov falls into the lap of Calgary. 7 Ristolainen gives EDM some grit on D, while Nurse provides a boost to the Sabres D.


Drouin is every bit as good as Mackinnon.

Drouin-Johansen-Gaborik...


It also gives Johansen two twine seeking laser guided linemates who know how to finish. Something our roster has been lacking.
Drouin is very good, but I wouldn't trade Murray straight up for him, let alone adding anything else to that.

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05-06-2013, 07:39 PM
  #999
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Something Different

...How about an early top-14 mock? Here's how I see things breaking down:

1. Colorado - D Seth Jones ... the most obvious choice at #1 for the last little while ... won't be much surprise here.
2. Florida - C Nathan MacKinnon ... have to think Florida will love this guy's potential, right alongside Huberdeau.
3. Tampa Bay - LW Jonathan Drouin ... heir apparent to Marty St. Louis, perfect fit alongside Steven Stamkos
4. Nashville - C Aleksander Barkov ... BPA, Nashville needs to re-stock the cupboards in any way possible.
5. Carolina - LW Valeri Nichuskin ... Carolina has the luxury of time for this player to develop, and his upside is huge. Alexander Semin in the lineup may help convince the Canes to pick him, and the player to come over.
6. Calgary - C Elias Lindholm ... Again, BPA for a team that needs to rebuild. Already with a young Scandinavian presence in their room.
7. Edmonton - D Darnell Nurse ... perfect fit to grow with the young team. This is the player they covet, and may move up a spot or three to get.
8. Buffalo - C Sean Monahan ... Solid pickup for a team looking to get bigger and more skilled.
9. New Jersey - LW Hunter Shinkaruk ... Plenty of history taking this kind of player, the Devils are thrilled if Shinkaruk goes this far. I don't see them passing him up, unless one of the players above is left on the board.
10. Dallas - F Alexander Wennberg ... Typical Dallas pick, this is one I actually agree with Craig Button on. Fairly low risk/decent sized reward player.
11. Philadelphia - D Rasmus Ristolainen ... Philly is a wild card, as they could take any number of players here. Ristolainen is the best of the lot, in my book.
12. Phoenix - LW Anthony Mantha ... Size, skill up front ... two things Phoenix has missed for years.
13. Winnipeg - C Max Domi ... a nice infusion of youthful exuberance, Domi is the kind of player that excites the fans in Winnipeg, and would be a nice fit in their system.
14. Columbus - ??? ... I leave this blank so as to not anger the masses. In my book, the best players left are defensemen (Pulock, Zadorov) ... I wouldn't touch Zadorov, so if I were going BPA, it's Pulock here. Jarmo has already mentioned that he'll be picking for offense though, so the likely pick for me would have to be either Bo Horvat or Adam Erne. These are players that fit into our style of play, and could develop into second line players. I'd be extremely happy to see any number of the guys above "fall" to us ... but time will tell.

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05-06-2013, 07:45 PM
  #1000
RDriesenUD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leesmith View Post
Because maybe we want Drouin or Barkov? idk
That may be the case, but like I said, no way am I trading Murray to do that and that is what we were talking about.

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