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Serge Savard:We need to get bigger

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Old
05-06-2013, 07:12 PM
  #26
SouthernHab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galchenyuk4habs View Post
What we need to do is stop drafting players under 6ft and get mean tough physical forwards.
In the upcoming draft I want NO 6ft under players, except maybe Jordan Subban. BPA only if he's gritty like Gallagher. Is anyone else sick and tired of this?
Careful man.

You will draw the ire of the Timmins crowd.

BPA is a failed strategy and we are living proof without a Cup for two decades.

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05-06-2013, 07:18 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Careful man.

You will draw the ire of the Timmins crowd.

BPA is a failed strategy and we are living proof without a Cup for two decades.
What teams don't draft BPA?

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05-06-2013, 07:21 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Hardly fair considering he's the one who signed Emelin, drafted Tinordi, extended Patches and traded for Bourque.

He was saddled with Gainey's plugs, Jacques Martin's awful youth burnout (Skost, Lats, Laps, O'Byrne, Pouliot, etc.) and was followed by an immensely lucky and charismatic young GM who just fell ass-backwards into a team that was already pretty, pretty good. Said GM got Brandon Prust... and then extended Bouillon and Desharnais to unreasonable extensions.

We do need to get bigger. Starting and ending with Gionta, Bouillon and DD - three underperforming, overpaid smurfs. (Bouillon doesn't play like a smurf in terms of toughness but he has the hockey IQ of one)
Didn't Gauthier also bring in Staubitz?..


Nothing new about what Savard said. It just doesn't happen overnight when you want to do it right. If they hit the open market, I'm pretty sure he'll be going hard after Clarkson and Clowe.
He was interested by Clowe at the deadline if we believe in the rumors but just unwilling to be the asking price. So if Clowe decides to test the waters, I'm sure Bergevin will be one of the interested ones.
Same thing for Clarkson.

Bringing in those two guys would go a long way imo. Clowe was never as bad as he was in SJ this year, guy just needed a change. True that he isn't the fastest, but we have enough of that to compensate for him, he's a safe bet for 40ish points.
I think the same can be said of Clarkson.

Aside from production, I think having Clowe-Clarkson-Prust each on different lines, with possibly an enforcer and White to back them up on 4th line, along with Emelin-Tinordi (and hopefully we add a bigger Dman as well), would change the face of our team completely.

To me, Clarkson and Clowe are key targets if they hit the market.

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05-06-2013, 07:28 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Hardly fair considering he's the one who signed Emelin, drafted Tinordi, extended Patches and traded for Bourque.

He was saddled with Gainey's plugs, Jacques Martin's awful youth burnout (Skost, Lats, Laps, O'Byrne, Pouliot, etc.) and was followed by an immensely lucky and charismatic young GM who just fell ass-backwards into a team that was already pretty, pretty good. Said GM got Brandon Prust... and then extended Bouillon and Desharnais to unreasonable extensions.

We do need to get bigger. Starting and ending with Gionta, Bouillon and DD - three underperforming, overpaid smurfs. (Bouillon doesn't play like a smurf in terms of toughness but he has the hockey IQ of one)
Bergevin extended Pacioretty

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05-06-2013, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Didn't Gauthier also bring in Staubitz?..


Nothing new about what Savard said. It just doesn't happen overnight when you want to do it right. If they hit the open market, I'm pretty sure he'll be going hard after Clarkson and Clowe.
He was interested by Clowe at the deadline if we believe in the rumors but just unwilling to be the asking price. So if Clowe decides to test the waters, I'm sure Bergevin will be one of the interested ones.
Same thing for Clarkson.

Bringing in those two guys would go a long way imo. Clowe was never as bad as he was in SJ this year, guy just needed a change. True that he isn't the fastest, but we have enough of that to compensate for him, he's a safe bet for 40ish points.
I think the same can be said of Clarkson.

Aside from production, I think having Clowe-Clarkson-Prust each on different lines, with possibly an enforcer and White to back them up on 4th line, along with Emelin-Tinordi (and hopefully we add a bigger Dman as well), would change the face of our team completely.

To me, Clarkson and Clowe are key targets if they hit the market.
The drawback is the cost. No ufa will come cheap. Getting one would help. The draft is the best long term solution.

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05-06-2013, 07:35 PM
  #31
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Why did nobody ever think of that. My mind's totally blown right now. Hmm, let's find bigger versions of Gallagher, **** the little guy.

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05-06-2013, 07:36 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galchenyuk4habs View Post
What we need to do is stop drafting players under 6ft and get mean tough physical forwards.
In the upcoming draft I want NO 6ft under players, except maybe Jordan Subban. BPA only if he's gritty like Gallagher. Is anyone else sick and tired of this?
In case you didn't notice, the team DOES draft big players. Leblanc is one of only three smallish players that the team has drafted in the first round since 2001 (the others being Higgins and Perezhogin). The others are Komisarek, Chipchura, Kostitsyn, Price, Pacioretty, McDonagh, Tinordi, Beaulieu and Galchenyuk. They're not getting any smaller from year to year either.

Timmins does like big players, but drafting players only because they're big is dumb. The big scrubs don't make the NHL and the big talented guys mostly go in the first round leaving less of them for the second round (hence why we have more of a mix of big and smallish guys).

Why waste a quality draft pick on a player who doesn't have much of a chance to play in the NHL when there are still plenty of good players left on the board? You can often trade a smallish talented player for a bigger one with less talent. You go for the project players when there isn't much talent left on the board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
BPA is a failed strategy and we are living proof without a Cup for two decades.
Drafting the BPA (Biggest Player Available) is a failed strategy, the Habs proved it in the 90's. That's why the team abandoned that strategy and went for the BPA (Best Player Available) instead. It just so happens that the best player available in the first round is usually a big one, just not the biggest.

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05-06-2013, 07:37 PM
  #33
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Bergevin tried picking up Sestito this year but Vancouver got him before us, you can tell by his pickups last year he's looking to add more toughness and physical play so I'm sure he'll continue to add size/toughness this summer.
Perhaps but rushing to extend DD shoots that argument full of holes.

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Old
05-06-2013, 07:37 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
Tinordi needs to train with Subban in the summer so he can add muscle.
Or Eller or Borq.

Anyone see Borq's traps. He's huge!!

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Old
05-06-2013, 07:41 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Careful man.

You will draw the ire of the Timmins crowd.

BPA is a failed strategy and we are living proof without a Cup for two decades.
You are completely wrong here on many levels.

BPA is the only reason why we've got the players we do. Timmins has done an exceptional job.

Our failure waa due to draft positioning, terrible asset management and not making enough trades for picks and prospects. We lost DESPITE our drafting, not because of it. Fortunately this was corrected in recent years with Price, Galchenyuk, Max and Gorges being brought in via this methodology. Eller could also be counted though we gave up a young player for him as well.

Add in low picks that turned into gold with Subban and Gallagher and we've got a bright future. We'll have to wait on Beaulieu and Tinordi as well as others but at least we're on the right track.

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05-06-2013, 07:42 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
The drawback is the cost. No ufa will come cheap. Getting one would help. The draft is the best long term solution.
No doubt about it, you tend to overpay on the open market, but that really isn't any of my concern. Teams have a lot of room. I mean, this year alone, more than 2/3rd of the league had more than 5M in cap space available. I know the cap drops next year, but we should have enough room to make some changes. And then there's the possibility of trades.

However, yes, the cheapest route is drafting, or signing undrafted players, finding gems. It's also the longest route, and I don't see us waiting 3-4 years for proper development before adding toughness.

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Old
05-06-2013, 07:45 PM
  #37
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If the Habs' were bigger maybe they could have stopped all 5'9 and 163lbs of beastly man Pageau last night.

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05-06-2013, 07:45 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
That man is a genius...I mean, no one ever thought of that.
He's such a genius that his attempts to make the Habs bigger when he was the gm was the start of the slow decline into not winning anything for the past 20 years.

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05-06-2013, 07:54 PM
  #39
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At the next draft the habs should draft by BPA and by that i mean BIGGEST player available.

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05-06-2013, 07:54 PM
  #40
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I don't think this really isn't a revelation. We are too small, this is something that should be remedied but not at the expense of overall talent. Guys like Gionta, Desharnais and half the defense should be phased out for bigger, more well rounded players when the opportunity arises.

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05-06-2013, 07:54 PM
  #41
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Def need to get an enforcer, they are usually cheap and if it doesn't work out put him in the seats what harm does it do? We've done it to kaberle and Weber all year

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05-06-2013, 08:02 PM
  #42
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Back in the day we had a bunch of big pluggers going for us. Up front we had McPhee, Skrudland, Carbo, Lemieux, Walter, Corson... none were all-stars but man they were tough to play against. On the blueline it was the same thing with Ludwig, Green, Chelios... When you came into Montreal, you knew you'd get beaten up.

We don't have to emulate that team but it sure would be nice to have a couple more in the mold of Brandon Prust on the team. Tinordi will be a great addition and from what I've heard of Beaulieu he can handle himself. PK is a great hitter and we've get Emelin... that's pretty good.

Up front, we're still too small. That has to be fixed. And for Pete's sake get some guys who will go to the net. If Gallagher can do it, anyone can.

A combo of Gionta, DD, Gallagher (God bless him) and Pleks just won't cut it. We're getting there though. Galchenyuk is probably our number one for the future and at least he's 6 feet.

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05-06-2013, 08:06 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galchenyuk4habs View Post
-Serge Savard just said today on the RDS show 5 a 7 that "The Montreal Canadiens lack size and it showed last night when they weren't playing their game [..] and when they got blown out by the Leafs"

Nothing new or out of the ordinary, but this is interesting since it's coming from Savard who was initially hired for the hiring of the new GM last year. MB obviously realizes this issue, but I think they want to address it correctly. Have they realized that they acted a little slow upon the issue and should of gotten quick fixes?Like picking up an enforcer by the waiver pickup method earlier on this season?

How much of an effort do you think MB is going to give in attempt to get bigger at the FA?
Not sure what size had to do with losing the game last night? Most of Ottawa's goals were scored with speed coming in the zone except for the 2 5 on 3 goals which are self explanatory.

Nobody was saying size was an issue after we punished Ottawa on Friday night.

Most of the size we need is...A-getting Eller back B-getting Emelin back C-developing Tinordi. Maybe add another big banger on the 3rd or 4th line.

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05-06-2013, 08:09 PM
  #44
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Habs can have small players, every team has one or two. It is tough when your top two centers are pint sized. All the Habs need are one or two guys on the bottom two lines who can throw em.
Eller and Galchenyuk are two big future 1 and 2 centers. Maybe Bournival or Leblanc can fill the role of #3. On D Diaz plays scared, you will never convince me other wise. Bouillon is really showing is age and lack of size this season. He is no longer very effective. For the life of me I can't understand why Staubitz was not kept. He played solid hockey for a 4th liner and he could handle the Chris Neil's of the world.

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05-06-2013, 08:09 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Not sure what size had to do with losing the game last night? Most of Ottawa's goals were scored with speed coming in the zone except for the 2 5 on 3 goals which are self explanatory.

Nobody was saying size was an issue after we punished Ottawa on Friday night.

Most of the size we need is...A-getting Eller back B-getting Emelin back C-developing Tinordi. Maybe add another big banger on the 3rd or 4th line.
The D going forward actually looks pretty good.

The forwards still need some work. Eller... tall, not particularly big. And he certainly doesn't play big. That's another problem too, we only have a few big players and they don't really play physical hockey. Only Bourque in the top 6 throws hits with any kind of consistency and he takes weeks or months off at a time.

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05-06-2013, 08:28 PM
  #46
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We're on our way to becoming bigger based our recent additions or signings/extensions: Prust, Armstrong, Moen extended, Drewisky. To me the problem is we're only adding height and weight to areas that won't help us score. We need some size all over the ice. Here are all our regular players right now...

Players under 6'0"
Desharnais (2C)
Gionta (Top 6)
Gallagher (top 6)
Plekanec (1C)
Bouillon (#5D)
Diaz (#5D)

Players that are 6'0"
Jeff Halpern (depth)
Michael Ryder (top 6)
Ryan White (4th line)
Andrei Markov (#2D)
PK Subban (#1D)

Players more than 6'0"
Alex Galchenyuk (top 9)
Colby Armstrong (4th line)
Rene Bourque (top 9)
Lars Eller ( top 9)
Travis Moen (4th line)
Brandon Prust (top 9)
Josh Gorges (#4D)
Drew Drewisky (Depth D)
Alexei Emelin (#5D)
Jared Tinordi (Bottom pairing)

Anyone see what's wrong with this? It seems as though our smallest forwards are our most used ones and they mostly can't hit and/or get pushed around too easily...that's something that needs to be addressed in the offseason or via trade, or by unloading some contracts i.e. Gionta and perhaps Ryder.

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Old
05-06-2013, 08:30 PM
  #47
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05-06-2013, 08:31 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
The D going forward actually looks pretty good.

The forwards still need some work. Eller... tall, not particularly big. And he certainly doesn't play big. That's another problem too, we only have a few big players and they don't really play physical hockey. Only Bourque in the top 6 throws hits with any kind of consistency and he takes weeks or months off at a time.
Huh?....... What does playing big look like to you?

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05-06-2013, 08:34 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Galchenyuk4habs View Post
-Serge Savard just said today on the RDS show 5 a 7 that "The Montreal Canadiens lack size and it showed last night when they weren't playing their game [..] and when they got blown out by the Leafs"

Nothing new or out of the ordinary, but this is interesting since it's coming from Savard who was initially hired for the hiring of the new GM last year. MB obviously realizes this issue, but I think they want to address it correctly. Have they realized that they acted a little slow upon the issue and should of gotten quick fixes?Like picking up an enforcer by the waiver pickup method earlier on this season?

How much of an effort do you think MB is going to give in attempt to get bigger at the FA?
Savard always likes a big team. Heard an interview he did at the draft 25 years ago, he said "nobody will be pushing us around".

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Old
05-06-2013, 08:36 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
The D going forward actually looks pretty good.

The forwards still need some work. Eller... tall, not particularly big. And he certainly doesn't play big. That's another problem too, we only have a few big players and they don't really play physical hockey. Only Bourque in the top 6 throws hits with any kind of consistency and he takes weeks or months off at a time.
Well to be fair with Eller he is probably our biggest forward and he hits a lot. It usually goes unnoticed but he does, he just doesn't throw huge hits. Bourque has been playing great recently and so has Gallagher.

-Patches, DD, Gio, Ryder, Galchenyuk shy away from the physical play, and it shows.

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