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Serge Savard:We need to get bigger

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Old
05-06-2013, 07:42 PM
  #51
CHwest
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Originally Posted by Galchenyuk4habs View Post
Well to be fair with Eller he is probably our biggest forward and he hits a lot. It usually goes unnoticed but he does, he just doesn't throw huge hits. Bourque has been playing great recently and so has Gallagher.

-Patches, DD, Gio, Ryder, Galchenyuk shy away from the physical play, and it shows.
Galchenyuk; I won't hold it against him, he's 18 yrs old and hardly played last year. This is a huge jump for him.

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05-06-2013, 07:43 PM
  #52
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Are the Habs really that small compared to the Sens?

Daniel Alfredsson 5'11 203 vs. Tomas Plekanec 5'11 196
Jean-Gabriel Pageau 5'9 163 vs. Brendan Gallagher 5'11 178
Kyle Turris 6'1 193 vs. Max Pacioretty 6'2 219
Milan Michalek 6'2 227 vs. Rene Bourque 6'2 213
Mika Zibanejad 6'1 200 vs. Alex Galchenyuk 6'1 196
Jakob Silfverberg 6'1 200 vs. Michael Ryder 6'0 198
Erik Condra 6'0 189 vs. Ryan White 6'0 194
Chris Neil 6'1 215 vs. Brandon Prust 6'2 195
Colin Greening 6'2 217 vs. Travis Moen 6'2 218
Zack Smith 6'2 212 vs. Colby Armstrong 6'2 185
Cory Conacher 5'8 179 vs. David Desharnais 5'7 177
Matt Kassian 6'4 232 vs. Brian Gionta 5'11 174

Erik Karlsson 6'0 175 vs. P.K. Subban 6'0 216
Sergei Gonchar 6'2 206 vs. Andrei Markov 6'0 204
Chris Phillips 6'3 221 vs. Josh Gorges 6'1 203
Marc Methot 6'3 231 vs. Francis Bouillon 5'9 197
Jared Cowen 6'5 230 vs. Jarred Tinordi 6'6 205
Andre Benoit 5'11 191 vs. Raphael Diaz 5'11 197

Craig Anderson 6'2 180 vs. Carey Price 6'3 209

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05-06-2013, 07:48 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
We're on our way to becoming bigger based our recent additions or signings/extensions: Prust, Armstrong, Moen extended, Drewisky. To me the problem is we're only adding height and weight to areas that won't help us score. We need some size all over the ice. Here are all our regular players right now...

Players under 6'0"
Desharnais (2C)
Gionta (Top 6)
Gallagher (top 6)
Plekanec (1C)
Bouillon (#5D)
Diaz (#5D)

Players that are 6'0"
Jeff Halpern (depth)
Michael Ryder (top 6)
Ryan White (4th line)
Andrei Markov (#2D)
PK Subban (#1D)

Players more than 6'0"
Alex Galchenyuk (top 9)
Colby Armstrong (4th line)
Rene Bourque (top 9)
Lars Eller ( top 9)
Travis Moen (4th line)
Brandon Prust (top 9)
Josh Gorges (#4D)
Drew Drewisky (Depth D)
Alexei Emelin (#5D)
Jared Tinordi (Bottom pairing)

Anyone see what's wrong with this? It seems as though our smallest forwards are our most used ones and they mostly can't hit and/or get pushed around too easily...that's something that needs to be addressed in the offseason or via trade, or by unloading some contracts i.e. Gionta and perhaps Ryder.
Height and weight are one thing but what we really need is guys with size that play with jam and grit on a daily basis. For example;

Players under 6'0"
Desharnais - Can't stay on his feet. Useless.
Gionta - Useless, over the hill.
Gallagher - Solid gold but needs to be surrounded
Plekanec - Little girl etc.
Bouillon - Tank! Getting old though
Diaz - GAH! No jam.

Players that are 6'0"
Jeff Halpern - Good 13th forward
Michael Ryder - Floater with a shot. Zero grit.
Ryan White - Love the kid!
Andrei Markov - Tries... aging fast
PK Subban - Tries... nothing back up the mouth.

Players more than 6'0"
Alex Galchenyuk - Has heart, does try.
Colby Armstrong - A shell of his former self - no longer a grinder.
Rene Bourque - Lackluster. I like the guy, buy he floats and isn't always a gamer.
Lars Eller - Getting better, terrible fighter
Travis Moen - No longer a grinder... hardly hits, rarely fights
Brandon Prust - Heart and soul!
Josh Gorges - Heart and effort, but...
Drew Drewisky - Not at all physical
Alexei Emelin - HUGE hits... shouldn't fight
Jared Tinordi - Too early to tell

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Old
05-06-2013, 07:49 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
The D going forward actually looks pretty good.

The forwards still need some work. Eller... tall, not particularly big. And he certainly doesn't play big. That's another problem too, we only have a few big players and they don't really play physical hockey. Only Bourque in the top 6 throws hits with any kind of consistency and he takes weeks or months off at a time.
Eller had one hit less than Prust (granted, 8 games difference but still not as little as you'd think). He does rushes the net, maybe not as often as someone like Gallagher but that's more because he's got more to offer than just crashing the net.

I disagree on your take of Eller. I feel he does play big. He battles hard, has no issues going to the net when that's the right move to do, doesn't shy away from contact or corners.

I don't think our centers are the issue, Galchenyuk-Eller-Plek is a great center line. The issue is more with our wingers.

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Old
05-06-2013, 07:50 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Mathletic View Post
Are the Habs really that small compared to the Sens?

Daniel Alfredsson 5'11 203 vs. Tomas Plekanec 5'11 196
Jean-Gabriel Pageau 5'9 163 vs. Brendan Gallagher 5'11 178
Kyle Turris 6'1 193 vs. Max Pacioretty 6'2 219
Milan Michalek 6'2 227 vs. Rene Bourque 6'2 213
Mika Zibanejad 6'1 200 vs. Alex Galchenyuk 6'1 196
Jakob Silfverberg 6'1 200 vs. Michael Ryder 6'0 198
Erik Condra 6'0 189 vs. Ryan White 6'0 194
Chris Neil 6'1 215 vs. Brandon Prust 6'2 195
Colin Greening 6'2 217 vs. Travis Moen 6'2 218
Zack Smith 6'2 212 vs. Colby Armstrong 6'2 185
Cory Conacher 5'8 179 vs. David Desharnais 5'7 177
Matt Kassian 6'4 232 vs. Brian Gionta 5'11 174

Erik Karlsson 6'0 175 vs. P.K. Subban 6'0 216
Sergei Gonchar 6'2 206 vs. Andrei Markov 6'0 204
Chris Phillips 6'3 221 vs. Josh Gorges 6'1 203
Marc Methot 6'3 231 vs. Francis Bouillon 5'9 197
Jared Cowen 6'5 230 vs. Jarred Tinordi 6'6 205
Andre Benoit 5'11 191 vs. Raphael Diaz 5'11 197

Craig Anderson 6'2 180 vs. Carey Price 6'3 209
Ok first of all Gio and Gallagher are not 5'11 Bouillon is not 5'9 and Prust is not 6'2

And yes it shows, look at it defensively, extremely outmatched size wise, but either way Ottawa does not over-whelm us with their size and physical play, it was just last game since we lost nearly every fight which made us look silly.

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Old
05-06-2013, 07:50 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Mathletic View Post
Are the Habs really that small compared to the Sens?

Daniel Alfredsson 5'11 203 vs. Tomas Plekanec 5'11 196
Jean-Gabriel Pageau 5'9 163 vs. Brendan Gallagher 5'11 178
Kyle Turris 6'1 193 vs. Max Pacioretty 6'2 219
Milan Michalek 6'2 227 vs. Rene Bourque 6'2 213
Mika Zibanejad 6'1 200 vs. Alex Galchenyuk 6'1 196
Jakob Silfverberg 6'1 200 vs. Michael Ryder 6'0 198
Erik Condra 6'0 189 vs. Ryan White 6'0 194
Chris Neil 6'1 215 vs. Brandon Prust 6'2 195
Colin Greening 6'2 217 vs. Travis Moen 6'2 218
Zack Smith 6'2 212 vs. Colby Armstrong 6'2 185
Cory Conacher 5'8 179 vs. David Desharnais 5'7 177
Matt Kassian 6'4 232 vs. Brian Gionta 5'11 174

Erik Karlsson 6'0 175 vs. P.K. Subban 6'0 216
Sergei Gonchar 6'2 206 vs. Andrei Markov 6'0 204
Chris Phillips 6'3 221 vs. Josh Gorges 6'1 203
Marc Methot 6'3 231 vs. Francis Bouillon 5'9 197
Jared Cowen 6'5 230 vs. Jarred Tinordi 6'6 205
Andre Benoit 5'11 191 vs. Raphael Diaz 5'11 197

Craig Anderson 6'2 180 vs. Carey Price 6'3 209
...but Pageau is only unafraid of going to the net because 6'1 Turris would beat the crap out of any dman who'd dare put his stick in Pageau's face. The transferable power of height. If only his teammates were taller, Gallagher would have Pageau's courage, and we'd have won 7-6.

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Old
05-06-2013, 07:52 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galchenyuk4habs View Post
Ok first of all Gio and Gallagher are not 5'11 Bouillon is not 5'9 and Prust is not 6'2

And yes it shows, look at it defensively, extremely outmatched size wise, but either way Ottawa does not over-whelm us with their size and physical play, it was just last game since we lost nearly every fight which made us look silly.
Took those numbers from nhl.com

That said, I agree with you that Phillips' and Methot's size shows compared to Bouillon's and Gorges on the defensive side and that the size thing is getting blown out of proportion because of the fights last night.

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Old
05-06-2013, 07:58 PM
  #58
Galchenyuk4habs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs13 View Post
Height and weight are one thing but what we really need is guys with size that play with jam and grit on a daily basis. For example;

Players under 6'0"
Desharnais - Can't stay on his feet. Useless.
Gionta - Useless, over the hill.
Gallagher - Solid gold but needs to be surrounded
Plekanec - Little girl etc.
Bouillon - Tank! Getting old though
Diaz - GAH! No jam.

Players that are 6'0"
Jeff Halpern - Good 13th forward
Michael Ryder - Floater with a shot. Zero grit.
Ryan White - Love the kid!
Andrei Markov - Tries... aging fast
PK Subban - Tries... nothing back up the mouth.

Players more than 6'0"
Alex Galchenyuk - Has heart, does try.
Colby Armstrong - A shell of his former self - no longer a grinder.
Rene Bourque - Lackluster. I like the guy, buy he floats and isn't always a gamer.
Lars Eller - Getting better, terrible fighter
Travis Moen - No longer a grinder... hardly hits, rarely fights
Brandon Prust - Heart and soul!
Josh Gorges - Heart and effort, but...
Drew Drewisky - Not at all physical
Alexei Emelin - HUGE hits... shouldn't fight
Jared Tinordi - Too early to tell
I'm actually sold on Tinordi if he can put on some muscle this summer, he's gonna become a Pronger type of D-man. I mean I've watched him in the juniors and he dominated the O with his size and physicality and won almost all his bouts, except one with a career enforcer. He played in the A this season and physically was dominating the league with ease, won more fights than he lost. He's actually the only hab who didn't lose a fight last game during the brawl, lol.

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Old
05-06-2013, 08:11 PM
  #59
Roulin
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Originally Posted by Galchenyuk4habs View Post
I'm actually sold on Tinordi if he can put on some muscle this summer, he's gonna become a Pronger type of D-man. I mean I've watched him in the juniors and he dominated the O with his size and physicality and won almost all his bouts, except one with a career enforcer. He played in the A this season and physically was dominating the league with ease, won more fights than he lost. He's actually the only hab who didn't lose a fight last game during the brawl, lol.
Pronger had 77pts in the OHL as a 17 year old, 30pts in the NHL as an 18 year old. Offence aside, Pronger was a quick decision maker in his own end, could make crisp passes or skate the puck out of trouble. I don't think it's fair to Tinordi to bring Pronger's name into the conversatin.

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05-06-2013, 08:13 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Pronger had 77pts in the OHL as a 17 year old, 30pts in the NHL as an 18 year old. Offence aside, Pronger was a quick decision maker in his own end, could make crisp passes or skate the puck out of trouble. I don't think it's fair to Tinordi to bring Pronger's name into the conversatin.
He's talking about the nasty Pronger not the offensive one.

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05-06-2013, 08:14 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Galchenyuk4habs View Post
I'm actually sold on Tinordi if he can put on some muscle this summer, he's gonna become a Pronger type of D-man. I mean I've watched him in the juniors and he dominated the O with his size and physicality and won almost all his bouts, except one with a career enforcer. He played in the A this season and physically was dominating the league with ease, won more fights than he lost. He's actually the only hab who didn't lose a fight last game during the brawl, lol.
Pronger? He's going to be a HHOF, Norris+Hart winner, 2-way defenseman that can log 30 minutes a game? Jesus, so many teams asleep in the 2010 draft.

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05-06-2013, 08:25 PM
  #62
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Bergevin tried picking up Sestito this year but Vancouver got him before us, you can tell by his pickups last year he's looking to add more toughness and physical play so I'm sure he'll continue to add size/toughness this summer.
Boullion and Armstrong. Lol
Resigning the shrimp DD.

Please.............

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05-06-2013, 08:27 PM
  #63
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That man is a genius...I mean, no one ever thought of that.
But management never does anything about it.


Last edited by Kimota: 05-06-2013 at 08:34 PM.
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Old
05-06-2013, 08:28 PM
  #64
Galchenyuk4habs
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Originally Posted by googlymoogly View Post
He's talking about the nasty Pronger not the offensive one.
I'm talking about the defensive side and similar size comparison both being 6'6" and also Tinordi can get nasty, he just needs to add muscle.

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05-06-2013, 08:29 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by TennisMenace View Post
Boullion and Armstrong. Lol
Resigning the shrimp DD.

Please.............
Resigning DD doesn't mean he won't get traded during the off-season. His contract was expiring anyways and he was RFA so we had no choice but to re-sign him.

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05-06-2013, 08:30 PM
  #66
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Tinordi is a start. Emelin coming back
.
People need to stop imagining Emelin in their minds into something he is not. Did you see what happened when he hit a real tough strong guy in Lucic? Boom, he's out.

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05-06-2013, 08:30 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Habs13 View Post
Height and weight are one thing but what we really need is guys with size that play with jam and grit on a daily basis. For example;

Players under 6'0"
Desharnais - Can't stay on his feet. Useless.
Gionta - Useless, over the hill.
Gallagher - Solid gold but needs to be surrounded
Plekanec - Little girl etc.
Bouillon - Tank! Getting old though
Diaz - GAH! No jam.

Players that are 6'0"
Jeff Halpern - Good 13th forward
Michael Ryder - Floater with a shot. Zero grit.
Ryan White - Love the kid!
Andrei Markov - Tries... aging fast
PK Subban - Tries... nothing back up the mouth.

Players more than 6'0"
Alex Galchenyuk - Has heart, does try.
Colby Armstrong - A shell of his former self - no longer a grinder.
Rene Bourque - Lackluster. I like the guy, buy he floats and isn't always a gamer.
Lars Eller - Getting better, terrible fighter
Travis Moen - No longer a grinder... hardly hits, rarely fights
Brandon Prust - Heart and soul!
Josh Gorges - Heart and effort, but...
Drew Drewisky - Not at all physical
Alexei Emelin - HUGE hits... shouldn't fight
Jared Tinordi - Too early to tell
Why is the word fight even in the conversation, who gives a flying leap, it's hockey not WWF.

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05-06-2013, 08:33 PM
  #68
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Hardly fair considering he's the one who signed Emelin, drafted Tinordi, extended Patches and traded for Bourque.

He was saddled with Gainey's plugs, Jacques Martin's awful youth burnout (Skost, Lats, Laps, O'Byrne, Pouliot, etc.) and was followed by an immensely lucky and charismatic young GM who just fell ass-backwards into a team that was already pretty, pretty good. Said GM got Brandon Prust... and then extended Bouillon and Desharnais to unreasonable extensions.
Oh you're one those.

After we got slaugheted by the Bruins before the playoffs a few years ago, Goat's solution was to get Paul Mara and Sopel instead of getting mean gritty guys at the D.

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05-06-2013, 08:35 PM
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I agree. The Canadiens have a habit of drafting small players. They obsess too much with finding the diamond in the ruff skilled forward rather than imposing physical players.
I hope Timmons gets the email- big guys this year. No soft Louie leblancs anymore.

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05-06-2013, 08:37 PM
  #70
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i don't believe trading Desharnais will be that difficult. there are plenty of offensively challenged teams looking for a skilled playmaker - even if he has deficiencies.

also, i don't see Bergevin signing Gionta next year. so that's already two roster spots we can fill with some larger bodies, hopefully.

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05-06-2013, 08:40 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Mathletic View Post
Are the Habs really that small compared to the Sens?

Daniel Alfredsson 5'11 203 vs. Tomas Plekanec 5'11 196
Jean-Gabriel Pageau 5'9 163 vs. Brendan Gallagher 5'11 178
Kyle Turris 6'1 193 vs. Max Pacioretty 6'2 219
Milan Michalek 6'2 227 vs. Rene Bourque 6'2 213
Mika Zibanejad 6'1 200 vs. Alex Galchenyuk 6'1 196
Jakob Silfverberg 6'1 200 vs. Michael Ryder 6'0 198
Erik Condra 6'0 189 vs. Ryan White 6'0 194
Chris Neil 6'1 215 vs. Brandon Prust 6'2 195
Colin Greening 6'2 217 vs. Travis Moen 6'2 218
Zack Smith 6'2 212 vs. Colby Armstrong 6'2 185
Cory Conacher 5'8 179 vs. David Desharnais 5'7 177
Matt Kassian 6'4 232 vs. Brian Gionta 5'11 174

Erik Karlsson 6'0 175 vs. P.K. Subban 6'0 216
Sergei Gonchar 6'2 206 vs. Andrei Markov 6'0 204
Chris Phillips 6'3 221 vs. Josh Gorges 6'1 203
Marc Methot 6'3 231 vs. Francis Bouillon 5'9 197
Jared Cowen 6'5 230 vs. Jarred Tinordi 6'6 205
Andre Benoit 5'11 191 vs. Raphael Diaz 5'11 197

Craig Anderson 6'2 180 vs. Carey Price 6'3 209
Look at your numbers. Ottawa has 4 guys about 230. We have none. Those 4 can pound our shrimps into submission and guys like Prust have to trade punches with guys 35 pounds heavier.

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05-06-2013, 08:42 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Back in the day we had a bunch of big pluggers going for us. Up front we had McPhee, Skrudland, Carbo, Lemieux, Walter, Corson... none were all-stars but man they were tough to play against. On the blueline it was the same thing with Ludwig, Green, Chelios... When you came into Montreal, you knew you'd get beaten up.

We don't have to emulate that team but it sure would be nice to have a couple more in the mold of Brandon Prust on the team. Tinordi will be a great addition and from what I've heard of Beaulieu he can handle himself. PK is a great hitter and we've get Emelin... that's pretty good.

Up front, we're still too small. That has to be fixed. And for Pete's sake get some guys who will go to the net. If Gallagher can do it, anyone can.

A combo of Gionta, DD, Gallagher (God bless him) and Pleks just won't cut it. We're getting there though. Galchenyuk is probably our number one for the future and at least he's 6 feet.
The Montreal Canadiens need to be the Montreal Canadiens again. It's that simple. We need to get back to what worked for us since the beginning of the franchise to 1990 or so. I'm talking about 80 Years of playing and be a certain way. We started to get softer and smaller as the 90s went by and we lost our identity and suddenly people started to think the Habs meant classy beautiful skaters. Hell even in the 93 cup run the Habs we had lost some of that grit, Roy saved our butts with a super-human effort.

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05-06-2013, 08:46 PM
  #73
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I've been saying this for years. It amazes me how people realize now that size and toughness is an issue. LOL

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05-06-2013, 08:51 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by TennisMenace View Post
Look at your numbers. Ottawa has 4 guys about 230. We have none. Those 4 can pound our shrimps into submission and guys like Prust have to trade punches with guys 35 pounds heavier.
Of those 4, Kassian barely plays and Cowen is on their bottom pair. Sure, I wouldn't want to get hit by those guys but I really don't think they're making the big difference the 2 teams. Phillips and Methot are making a difference on D but then again, it's not like the Canadiens don't have their chances offensively. Also, Prust is wasting his time going after guys like Neil and Kassian. Habs should play the same way the Sens are and that is going against the other team's top players. Not going against their goons.

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05-06-2013, 09:17 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Back in the day we had a bunch of big pluggers going for us. Up front we had McPhee, Skrudland, Carbo, Lemieux, Walter, Corson... none were all-stars but man they were tough to play against. On the blueline it was the same thing with Ludwig, Green, Chelios... When you came into Montreal, you knew you'd get beaten up.

We don't have to emulate that team but it sure would be nice to have a couple more in the mold of Brandon Prust on the team. Tinordi will be a great addition and from what I've heard of Beaulieu he can handle himself. PK is a great hitter and we've get Emelin... that's pretty good.

Up front, we're still too small. That has to be fixed. And for Pete's sake get some guys who will go to the net. If Gallagher can do it, anyone can.

A combo of Gionta, DD, Gallagher (God bless him) and Pleks just won't cut it. We're getting there though. Galchenyuk is probably our number one for the future and at least he's 6 feet.
Totally agree with you sir. As a die hard Habs fan since 1974, we played tough team hockey for many years. Gainey killed us after the Koivu era by going even smaller.

I wonder what the brain trust was thinking last night, there are some tough ex players on it, I can't believe they don't see how small we are against the Bruins, Leafs, and now the Sens!

I have not been a fan of the three MB contract extensions to Moen, Cube and DD.
I don't think Moen and DD are tradeable, but it only takes one Bob Gainey or Mike Milbury to turn that around.

We need to draft BIG PHYSICAL fowards and Dmen, there is a ton of small skilled talent in the pipeline. Come on Timmins, bring us some size!

IF MB is a true "genius" he'll recognize his mistake (we all make them) and trade smaller players such as DD and Gionta and try and acquire players like Clarkson or Murray.

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