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Serge Savard:We need to get bigger

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Old
05-06-2013, 10:21 PM
  #76
JLP
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
People need to stop imagining Emelin in their minds into something he is not. Did you see what happened when he hit a real tough strong guy in Lucic? Boom, he's out.
Yes but that was an unlucky injury was it not? Emelin is what he is, big and smart and tough but should not fight.

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Old
05-06-2013, 10:24 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
People need to stop imagining Emelin in their minds into something he is not. Did you see what happened when he hit a real tough strong guy in Lucic? Boom, he's out.
That was just unfortunate. It was an incidental knee on knee hit. Did you expect Emelin to stay on his skates and not go down with a torn ligament in his knee?

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Old
05-06-2013, 10:34 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Mathletic View Post
Of those 4, Kassian barely plays and Cowen is on their bottom pair. Sure, I wouldn't want to get hit by those guys but I really don't think they're making the big difference the 2 teams. Phillips and Methot are making a difference on D but then again, it's not like the Canadiens don't have their chances offensively. Also, Prust is wasting his time going after guys like Neil and Kassian. Habs should play the same way the Sens are and that is going against the other team's top players. Not going against their goons.
Well, in your other post...you put player who seems to be about the same average height....put our "top 6 vs other top 6"....and the bootom 6 against the other bottom 6.

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Old
05-06-2013, 10:38 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Hardly fair considering he's the one who signed Emelin, drafted Tinordi, extended Patches and traded for Bourque.

He was saddled with Gainey's plugs, Jacques Martin's awful youth burnout (Skost, Lats, Laps, O'Byrne, Pouliot, etc.) and was followed by an immensely lucky and charismatic young GM who just fell ass-backwards into a team that was already pretty, pretty good. Said GM got Brandon Prust... and then extended Bouillon and Desharnais to unreasonable extensions.

We do need to get bigger. Starting and ending with Gionta, Bouillon and DD - three underperforming, overpaid smurfs. (Bouillon doesn't play like a smurf in terms of toughness but he has the hockey IQ of one)
I don't get it... MB makes glaring mistakes... Not even gambles... just mistakes and it goes by... Why does he get the benefit of the doubt ?

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Old
05-06-2013, 10:53 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
I don't get it... MB makes glaring mistakes... Not even gambles...
What are his glaring mistakes... maybe they are so obvious that I've missed them

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Old
05-06-2013, 10:56 PM
  #81
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First I've heard of size being an issue. Did he have any other pearls of wisdom?

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Old
05-06-2013, 11:01 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
What are his glaring mistakes... maybe they are so obvious that I've missed them
... Those have been covered enough.

We've talked about having an ''average'' team not being acceptable... This isn't acceptable.

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Old
05-06-2013, 11:05 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
We need to start identifying who is a part of the core and who isn't.

Re-signing Desharnais makes me question if Bergevin *really* knows who his core players are. Eller is definitely way ahead of DD on my depth chart, arguably ahead of Plekanec too. I said it in game 1 and I'll say it again:

Lars Eller is our only center built for the playoffs. Galchenyuk doesn't count yet.
I think Bergevin is a GM that believe in asset management.

He just don't seem to like to see his player go away for nothing. It might become a liability if his player lose all their values.

I also think that Bergevin want to build his team with the draft.

The habs still need more size and skills that's pretty obvious...

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Old
05-06-2013, 11:08 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathletic View Post
Are the Habs really that small compared to the Sens?

Daniel Alfredsson 5'11 203 vs. Tomas Plekanec 5'11 196
Jean-Gabriel Pageau 5'9 163 vs. Brendan Gallagher 5'11 178
Kyle Turris 6'1 193 vs. Max Pacioretty 6'2 219
Milan Michalek 6'2 227 vs. Rene Bourque 6'2 213
Mika Zibanejad 6'1 200 vs. Alex Galchenyuk 6'1 196
Jakob Silfverberg 6'1 200 vs. Michael Ryder 6'0 198
Erik Condra 6'0 189 vs. Ryan White 6'0 194
Chris Neil 6'1 215 vs. Brandon Prust 6'2 195
Colin Greening 6'2 217 vs. Travis Moen 6'2 218
Zack Smith 6'2 212 vs. Colby Armstrong 6'2 185
Cory Conacher 5'8 179 vs. David Desharnais 5'7 177
Matt Kassian 6'4 232 vs. Brian Gionta 5'11 174

Erik Karlsson 6'0 175 vs. P.K. Subban 6'0 216
Sergei Gonchar 6'2 206 vs. Andrei Markov 6'0 204
Chris Phillips 6'3 221 vs. Josh Gorges 6'1 203
Marc Methot 6'3 231 vs. Francis Bouillon 5'9 197
Jared Cowen 6'5 230 vs. Jarred Tinordi 6'6 205
Andre Benoit 5'11 191 vs. Raphael Diaz 5'11 197

Craig Anderson 6'2 180 vs. Carey Price 6'3 209
Bolded players are definately not their true size.

And the difference in size at Defense is pretty huge !

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Old
05-06-2013, 11:17 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
Well, in your other post...you put player who seems to be about the same average height....put our "top 6 vs other top 6"....and the bootom 6 against the other bottom 6.
Sure but it's not like Kassian is winning the series for Ottawa. Not sure people realize Jean-Gabriel Pageau is as small as they come, yet he scored 3 last night. Sure physical battles are important but by no means the be all and end all in the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
Bolded players are definately not their true size.

And the difference in size at Defense is pretty huge !
I'm sure some measurements are off, but pretty sure some measurements are off on Ottawa's side also.

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Old
05-06-2013, 11:20 PM
  #86
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I have a very bad concern about last night...

When the line brawl started, the majority of our players where still sitting on the bench while all the sens bench were standing up and cheering.... I mean, your teammates are fighting for the honor of your team, why not stand up and cheer like any other team? I ****ing hate that. We have a team full of players with soft attitude.

We need to change that over the summer. Get bigger and tougher.

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Old
05-06-2013, 11:23 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HCH View Post
What are his glaring mistakes... maybe they are so obvious that I've missed them
Bergevin Mistakes:

1- Signing Travis Moen to 4yr contract.
2- Signing David Desharnais to a 4 yr contract (no rush was needed, he was RFA).
3- Signing Price to a 6 yr 6.5 M $
4- Subban bridge contract (and then doing #2 above). This will cost us big now.
5- Wasting a 5th round pick for Drewiske. Don't tell me it's a depth move. You don't go get a defenseman as "depth" when you have Weber, Kaberle, Tinordi and Beaulieu in front of him. Management really thought he was better than those guys and he isn't.
6- Not doing anything at the deadline
7- Saying publicly the goal is to make the playoffs when we are fighting for 1st.

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Old
05-06-2013, 11:24 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by andy28 View Post
I would consider it, but not necessarily do it. Markov is not what he used to be, but he is still a smart defenseman with years of experience which makes him a good piece for any team. But you are right, now that he is getting older he is not an untouchable.
he never shows up in the playoffs

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Old
05-06-2013, 11:27 PM
  #89
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gee thanks serge.even my 6 year old can see the habs need more size up front.

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Old
05-06-2013, 11:29 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Mathletic View Post
Are the Habs really that small compared to the Sens?

Daniel Alfredsson 5'11 203 vs. Tomas Plekanec 5'11 196
Jean-Gabriel Pageau 5'9 163 vs. Brendan Gallagher 5'11 178
Kyle Turris 6'1 193 vs. Max Pacioretty 6'2 219
Milan Michalek 6'2 227 vs. Rene Bourque 6'2 213
Mika Zibanejad 6'1 200 vs. Alex Galchenyuk 6'1 196
Jakob Silfverberg 6'1 200 vs. Michael Ryder 6'0 198
Erik Condra 6'0 189 vs. Ryan White 6'0 194
Chris Neil 6'1 215 vs. Brandon Prust 6'2 195
Colin Greening 6'2 217 vs. Travis Moen 6'2 218
Zack Smith 6'2 212 vs. Colby Armstrong 6'2 185
Cory Conacher 5'8 179 vs. David Desharnais 5'7 177
Matt Kassian 6'4 232 vs. Brian Gionta 5'11 174

Erik Karlsson 6'0 175 vs. P.K. Subban 6'0 216
Sergei Gonchar 6'2 206 vs. Andrei Markov 6'0 204
Chris Phillips 6'3 221 vs. Josh Gorges 6'1 203
Marc Methot 6'3 231 vs. Francis Bouillon 5'9 197
Jared Cowen 6'5 230 vs. Jarred Tinordi 6'6 205
Andre Benoit 5'11 191 vs. Raphael Diaz 5'11 197

Craig Anderson 6'2 180 vs. Carey Price 6'3 209
(not counting goalies)
Players over 205pds, Sens 9, Habs 4
Players over 220pds, Sens 4, Habs 0
Players 200pds+, Sens 12, Habs 6

i'd say that unequivocally YES, we are smaller than the Sens.

in a broad sense, I think the size factor is overrated... but there is no doubt that physical size is an element that can be an advantage.

Gainey/Gauthier era left us incredibly small, and without any elite offensive talent up front (plekanec & patches are good, but not great... galchenyuk and perhaps gallagher may end up elite, but time will tell), while giving us one of the smallest/slightest top-9's in the league.


I'm firmly of the belief that talent trumps "size", but if you aren't clearly more skilled, then size is a huge advantage.

i suspect that MB will gradually address this issue, but with the contracts & roster that Gainey/Gauthier saddled us with, it would be foolish to think that fixing the situation would happen over night.

DD extension aside, MB is clearly working to improve our team toughness. I expect that moves this summer, next season, & next summer will leave us with a much more physically competent roster.

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Old
05-06-2013, 11:30 PM
  #91
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Best spots on most NHL lineups where you find the muscle is on the 3rd and 4th lines and the 5th and 6th dman. The Habs insistence on having soft, smaller, skilled players in these spots in the lineup pays dividends during the regular season to a degree, however, when the going gets rough the Habs do not have the muscle needed to push back.

Players like Diaz and Boullion as 5th and 6th dman are the perfect example... they are more skilled that 90% of 5th and 6th dman in the league, however they do not scare anyone when it comes to the rough stuff.

Also, guys like Armstrong, Dumont, Halpern all bottom six players that have a little more skill that your average 4th liner... but ****** me if they scare anyone when the ***** hits the fan.

Bergevin has to start clearing out these soft smaller players and start getting bigger more physical players in these lineup spots.

Therrien keeps talking about respect... the only way to get respect in the NHL is by imposing it physically on your opponent... not by blabbering at post game press conferences.

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Old
05-06-2013, 11:31 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
... Those have been covered enough.

We've talked about having an ''average'' team not being acceptable... This isn't acceptable.
I don't understand people, we finished 28th out of 30 last year and partly because of th e shortened season and not having to play any western teams the Habs finished 4th overall this year.

We probably werent as bad as last year and not as good as the standings indicate this year.
So instead of being happy that we have made huge strides in one year under MB, everyone thinks we should win the Stanley Cup this year. I am very happy just seeing the team have proper management with a plan and vision.

We have alot of high draft picks for the upcoming draft and MB now has had one full year on the job to assess things from top to bottom. He sees the need for a few things on the NHL club and also will have proper time to get some winning type vets for the AHL team to groom the young draft picks.

We may finish a little lower next year in the standings but have a better team with a brighter outlook for the future than anytime in the last 20 years

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Old
05-06-2013, 11:38 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Nitehowl View Post
I don't understand people, we finished 28th out of 30 last year and partly because of th e shortened season and not having to play any western teams the Habs finished 4th overall this year.

We probably werent as bad as last year and not as good as the standings indicate this year.
So instead of being happy that we have made huge strides in one year under MB, everyone thinks we should win the Stanley Cup this year. I am very happy just seeing the team have proper management with a plan and vision.

We have alot of high draft picks for the upcoming draft and MB now has had one full year on the job to assess things from top to bottom. He sees the need for a few things on the NHL club and also will have proper time to get some winning type vets for the AHL team to groom the young draft picks.

We may finish a little lower next year in the standings but have a better team with a brighter outlook for the future than anytime in the last 20 years
I really don't see how this is related to my post...

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Old
05-06-2013, 11:41 PM
  #94
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Old
05-06-2013, 11:42 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
I really don't see how this is related to my post...
You talk about being an average team is not acceptable..

but MB has had one year on the job to change all the problems that have plagued this team for years.He can't do it overnight, it takes time.

Do you want a one year wonder or a team built to compete for a long time

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Old
05-06-2013, 11:44 PM
  #96
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You are completely wrong here on many levels.

BPA is the only reason why we've got the players we do. Timmins has done an exceptional job.

Our failure waa due to draft positioning, terrible asset management and not making enough trades for picks and prospects. We lost DESPITE our drafting, not because of it. Fortunately this was corrected in recent years with Price, Galchenyuk, Max and Gorges being brought in via this methodology. Eller could also be counted though we gave up a young player for him as well.

Add in low picks that turned into gold with Subban and Gallagher and we've got a bright future. We'll have to wait on Beaulieu and Tinordi as well as others but at least we're on the right track.
I dont think that I am wrong on any level.

Everyone glows over the Timmins drafting record for the past 11 or 12 years. Here we are, in 2013 and we are no closer to winning a Cup than we were before he took over the drafting duties.

Teams in the NHL play for the Stanley Cup. There is no award for having the most players in the NHL. None.

BPA is a terrible strategy. Look at who we had in Hamilton this season. Carbon copy players (forwards) without very much grit. The average being around 5' 11" and under 200 pounds.

Only 7 players on the Hamilton roster are over 200 pounds. Two of those are Stortini and Hagel. 14 players on Hamilton are under 200 pounds.

There are players throughout the NHL who are productive at under 6 feet and 200 pounds. But..................

When your top 6 in Montreal has only two players over 200 pounds and there is only ONE forward in Hamilton that is over 200 pounds, your organization has a problem.

And that problem is BPA instead of drafting to fill needs.

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Old
05-06-2013, 11:45 PM
  #97
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Serge Savard: Desharnais and Gionta are not tall

Someone tweeted that Serge Savard said that Desharnais and Gionta are short guys...

I fully respect Serge and if he did say this I hope MB is taking note.

Thoughts? I have to admit, I think I agree.

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Old
05-06-2013, 11:46 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Nitehowl View Post
You talk about being an average team is not acceptable..

but MB has had one year on the job to change all the problems that have plagued this team for years.He can't do it overnight, it takes time.

Do you want a one year wonder or a team built to compete for a long time

I still don't see how this is related. Being good now does not mean being a one-year wonder.

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Old
05-06-2013, 11:55 PM
  #99
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Old
05-07-2013, 12:02 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
I still don't see how this is related. Being good now does not mean being a one-year wonder.
Can you explain with your GM hat on how you would have turned this team around in one year? Thanks

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