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09-21-2006, 09:24 PM
  #1
howlman
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Marc Staal?

When is he being sent back to the OHL? Thanks.

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09-21-2006, 09:42 PM
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What makes you sure he will be. But it will probably be just before the limit that locks junior players out of juniors and into the NHL. 20 days?

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09-21-2006, 09:53 PM
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Like Bob said, I'm not sure he will be.

Obviously a lot depends on the preseason and a few other factors, but he might not be back in the OHL.

Even if he is, I'd be really surprised if he's not at the least, one of the last cuts from camp.

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09-22-2006, 01:35 AM
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i saw him sitting with Jed, Hugh and another guy at MSG during the Devils game in section 118.. Jed looked really dejected towards the end. that may help to answer the "Where is Staal?" question.

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09-22-2006, 02:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dank View Post
i saw him sitting with Jed, Hugh and another guy at MSG during the Devils game in section 118.. Jed looked really dejected towards the end. that may help to answer the "Where is Staal?" question.
hmm im confused, what does that mean???

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09-22-2006, 04:54 AM
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What 20 day limit?

Staal is going back to the OHL.Reading and hearing Maloney's comments about Staal indicates he is going back to junior

If Staal plays more than 10 NHL games,it counts as a season on his entry level contract and towards salary arb

Roszival will be back for the start of the season.The Rangers top six defense is set.Richter or Pock will be the 7th

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09-22-2006, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
What 20 day limit?

Staal is going back to the OHL.Reading and hearing Maloney's comments about Staal indicates he is going back to junior

If Staal plays more than 10 NHL games,it counts as a season on his entry level contract and towards salary arb

Roszival will be back for the start of the season.The Rangers top six defense is set.Richter or Pock will be the 7th
More than likely you are right. Nevertheless, if he shines over the next several exhibition games., I can see him here for at least the first ten games. A cup of coffee during the regular season should not be detrimental.

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09-22-2006, 08:07 AM
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More than likely you are right. Nevertheless, if he shines over the next several exhibition games., I can see him here for at least the first ten games. A cup of coffee during the regular season should not be detrimental.
Only if he is playing in those games, and not spending the time not dressing for games. I think that Edge is right when he says that Staal will be one of the last cuts, but (barring a long-term injury to one of the projected top-6) cut he will be.

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09-22-2006, 08:28 AM
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Only if he is playing in those games, and not spending the time not dressing for games. I think that Edge is right when he says that Staal will be one of the last cuts, but (barring a long-term injury to one of the projected top-6) cut he will be.
Agreed that he needs to play. We'll see. I'm not enamoured with our so-called top six. Baranka,Pock, Staal should have a chance. BTW are you worried about the Skins? We were quite LUCKY last week

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09-22-2006, 09:16 AM
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BTW are you worried about the Skins? We were quite LUCKY last week
Not worried yet. Last year, the 'Skins were 5-6, before going on a run. Thankfully, the rest of the East is 1-1. And the 'Skins offense could not have been much worse.

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09-22-2006, 09:51 AM
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Hope the Skins tank.The Jets have the Skins 2nd round pick next April.With the Jets top two picks plus the Skins pick,the Jets could have 3 out of the top 40 or so picks in the draft

Al Saunders doesn't look too bright without Priest Holmes,Larry Johnson and Tony Gonzalez.A banged up Clinton Portis,Lidell Betts and Chris Cooley.Mark Brunell looks like he is 50

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09-22-2006, 12:12 PM
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Hope the Skins tank.The Jets have the Skins 2nd round pick next April.With the Jets top two picks plus the Skins pick,the Jets could have 3 out of the top 40 or so picks in the draft

Al Saunders doesn't look too bright without Priest Holmes,Larry Johnson and Tony Gonzalez.A banged up Clinton Portis,Lidell Betts and Chris Cooley.Mark Brunell looks like he is 50
Jets have the 'Skins 3rd round pick, but I could be wrong. Brunell does not matter that much. Saunders turned Holmes from a mediocre, undersized runner who could not cut it in Baltimore to that he was in KC. I have the utmost confidence in him.

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09-22-2006, 10:17 PM
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After losing 10-3 tonight the sooner the better we have M.Staal . I hope he does make the Rangers though, good stuff that kid. Going to be a real good addition when he does make the team.

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09-23-2006, 12:07 AM
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Let Maloney's comments of a few day ago be your guide. Don't have the link, but the Rangers seem to be putting caution first w/Staal.

That said if he improves his play over the course of the pre-season, they may start the regular season w/him just to get him a taste. If he does well there....he may never go back down.

In the end, I think he goes back to Sudbury. We can afford to wait for a kid like this. It would be nice to see him get some NHL though.

Does my post basically reflect the conflict many of us are feeling about this

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09-23-2006, 11:25 AM
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I think the rule is (and I very well may be wrong on this) is that he can PLAY ten games and then be sent back to the minors without it costing a year. The way I understand the rule, if he sits in the press box for a game, it DOES NOT count against the ten game limit. This means he could potentially be practicing with the team and playing once a week until December.

I'm not saying that's a good idea, but I do think it would be OK to have him sit in the press box for a couple games. Either way, I really want Staal to be with the team for a little while. He really doesn't need any more CHL experience. He needs to be playing against higher level competition, not 16 year olds.

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09-23-2006, 11:45 AM
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Potted you don't post nearly enough on here anymore.

Good to see you hanging around again.

As for Staal, he falls into that category that drives me nuts.

Personally I don't think there's too much left to do at the OHL level (not that it'd be useless but I don't think it's incredibly difficult for him either).

On the other hand I don't think he's quite ready for the NHL (not that he'd flounder, but I think it might be rushing a bit too soon).

Ideally he's a 19 year old who should be playing in the AHL. I think that'd be the perfect experience for him, but it isn't an option.

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09-23-2006, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Potted you don't post nearly enough on here anymore.

Good to see you hanging around again.
Thanks! I appreciate it. I haven't posted much because I haven't had much to say, and because my first love, college football, has started. My beloved LSU Fightin' Tigers lost a heartbreaker last week to Auburn. We didn't play well, but still had a chance to win going down to the last play of the game, and we got hosed by officiating. Plus, there just isn't much to say right now about hockey. Living down here, I don't get to see many NHL games unless I want to watch the Thrashers. I didn't even get OLN until halfway through last season. I did not watch a single Rangers game last year, and I doubt I watched more than 2 or 3 hockey games at all until halfway through the playoffs.

But, with training camp and preseason games starting in earnest, I'll probably drop by a good bit more.

Quote:
As for Staal, he falls into that category that drives me nuts.

Personally I don't think there's too much left to do at the OHL level (not that it'd be useless but I don't think it's incredibly difficult for him either).

On the other hand I don't think he's quite ready for the NHL (not that he'd flounder, but I think it might be rushing a bit too soon).

Ideally he's a 19 year old who should be playing in the AHL. I think that'd be the perfect experience for him, but it isn't an option.
I know it. He's a kid who's really hurt by the rules. Probably not quite ready to be an NHLer full time, but barred from going to the AHL. That's why I like the idea of keeping him with the team for a while, and maximizing his practice time by not playing him every game. Keeping him in the NHL for a month or two might be the best thing for his development, even if he is just watching from the press box.

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09-28-2006, 06:29 AM
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Of course Renney does, now that he has a personal stake in the development of 19-year-old defenseman Marc Staal, the 12th overall selection of the 2005 NHL Entry Draft who must be returned to his OHL Sudbury team and, thus, cannot be assigned to the AHL Wolf Pack if unable to stick with the Rangers.

"I'm not a big fan of that rule, quite frankly," Renney said before last night's 1-0 Garden exhibition victory over the Bruins. "Far be it for me to be critical of how we develop our players, but I find it hard to believe that when a player is ready, willing and able to challenge for a position on at least the American League level, we're not permitted to assign him to our AHL affiliate.

"I'm a big proponent of growing hockey players, enhancing the product and making it better for the long run, and I think that allowing Marc and other players in his situation to play in the AHL would be a good thing for the NHL, the players and the individual franchises
."
http://www.nypost.com/seven/09282006...rry_brooks.htm

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09-28-2006, 08:50 AM
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Does This Mean He Wants To Keep Staal Around A Lil Longer?

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09-28-2006, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
And I agree 100% with what he said.

I've always felt that way, from Blackburn to Staal I've seen it right here on the Rangers.

The gap in choices is rather mind boggling. You can either play him in the CHL or the NHL. The jump from the CHL to the AHL is big and from the AHL to the NHL even bigger.

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09-28-2006, 09:07 PM
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And I agree 100% with what he said.

I've always felt that way, from Blackburn to Staal I've seen it right here on the Rangers.

The gap in choices is rather mind boggling. You can either play him in the CHL or the NHL. The jump from the CHL to the AHL is big and from the AHL to the NHL even bigger.
What's odd is how the Canadian junior leagues have basically got the NHL in a bind. How anachronistic. They need the junior leagues less than they ever have with college and especially with the internationalization of the sport (above and beyond any other sport in NA)... and yet the league continues to sign deals that basically put it in servitude to the equivalent of A and AA teams that draw under 100K people a year. (When most teams already have AA (i.e. Charlotte) and AAA (i.e. HFD) professional teams!)

It's the good ol' Canadian boys trying to protect their tradition and maintain the viabiliy of the junior leagues because they are vested in it - same way that NA refs let hooking and holding get worse and worse to allow scrub Western Canadians to keep jobs in the face of an influx of skilled players from other parts of the world.

Or at least that's my opinion.

Hopefully Renney's comments reflect a changing of the guard in NA thinking away from Don Cherry types to those who just want to see the best possible hockey in the NHL.

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09-28-2006, 10:45 PM
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What's odd is how the Canadian junior leagues have basically got the NHL in a bind. How anachronistic. They need the junior leagues less than they ever have with college and especially with the internationalization of the sport (above and beyond any other sport in NA)... and yet the league continues to sign deals that basically put it in servitude to the equivalent of A and AA teams that draw under 100K people a year. (When most teams already have AA (i.e. Charlotte) and AAA (i.e. HFD) professional teams!)

It's the good ol' Canadian boys trying to protect their tradition and maintain the viabiliy of the junior leagues because they are vested in it - same way that NA refs let hooking and holding get worse and worse to allow scrub Western Canadians to keep jobs in the face of an influx of skilled players from other parts of the world.

Or at least that's my opinion.

Hopefully Renney's comments reflect a changing of the guard in NA thinking away from Don Cherry types to those who just want to see the best possible hockey in the NHL.

With all due respect, there are serious problems with what you are saying. How does the CHL have the NHL over the sword more so than American college programs or European club teams? Malkin has to pull a midnight run to get out of Russia (circa 1982) and you have a problem with the CHL? How long did Mikko Koivu play in Finland before he made the jump to the NHL? If Jack Johnson had been drafted from the CHL, he would have played in the NHL last season. Of course, Johnson plays for an American college and is causing nothing but headaches for Carolina by not playing there. You can gripe about the CHL system and what ever rules they have all you like . The fact is that the CHL, under the current and past rules is the biggest producer of talent the NHL has. If the rule was so bad for NHL hockey teams and the players, it would have been taken care of in the new CBA. If Staal was playing for Harvard, would he be in the NHL this season? AHL? Maybe next season? Maybe the season after? The answer is, only Marc Staal knows. That is why the US system is far more flawed than the CHL. If it was a better system, why wouldn't more players opt to play there? It has nothing to do with Canadian good ol' boys wanting to keep tradition alive. Staal or no Staal, Crosby or no Crosby, the CHL will live on, they don't need a rule to help them out. It isn't about the star players, its about hockey, thats it. 4000 people sitting at Mile One Stadium to watch a first year expantion Q team during the middle of the week is proof of that, I've been there. As you said, thats just my opinion, take it for what its worth.

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09-28-2006, 11:33 PM
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With all due respect, there are serious problems with what you are saying. How does the CHL have the NHL over the sword more so than American college programs or European club teams? Malkin has to pull a midnight run to get out of Russia (circa 1982) and you have a problem with the CHL? How long did Mikko Koivu play in Finland before he made the jump to the NHL? If Jack Johnson had been drafted from the CHL, he would have played in the NHL last season. Of course, Johnson plays for an American college and is causing nothing but headaches for Carolina by not playing there. You can gripe about the CHL system and what ever rules they have all you like . The fact is that the CHL, under the current and past rules is the biggest producer of talent the NHL has. If the rule was so bad for NHL hockey teams and the players, it would have been taken care of in the new CBA. If Staal was playing for Harvard, would he be in the NHL this season? AHL? Maybe next season? Maybe the season after? The answer is, only Marc Staal knows. That is why the US system is far more flawed than the CHL. If it was a better system, why wouldn't more players opt to play there? It has nothing to do with Canadian good ol' boys wanting to keep tradition alive. Staal or no Staal, Crosby or no Crosby, the CHL will live on, they don't need a rule to help them out. It isn't about the star players, its about hockey, thats it. 4000 people sitting at Mile One Stadium to watch a first year expantion Q team during the middle of the week is proof of that, I've been there. As you said, thats just my opinion, take it for what its worth.
First of all, bear in mind that I'm a native NYer living in NY whereas you just admitted that you apparently attend games in the Q on school nights - I appreciate the respectful manner in which you disagreed with me, but I have to tell you that I find it very hard to believe that you hold an objective opinion on the subject. Whereas all I want is clearly to see the player go where it's best for his development. On to the details of your post:

The difference is that Malkin's situation had everything to do with Russia and nothing to do with the NHL. Furthermore if Staal was at Harvard, then it WOULD be his choice (and let's make it Minnesota-Duluth rather than Harvard so the degree isn't nearly as tempting), whereas in Juniors he doesn't have a choice - he can't even do what Malkin did and flee like it was 1983 all over again.

And frankly, in my opinion - there's that phrase again! - based on everything I've seen and read Staal would much rather be here either as a Ranger or a top pairing guy at HFD rather than soon to be in Sudbury.

You prove my point for me when you talk about the expansion team drawing 4,000 - the system is set up to benefit the junior teams at the expense of the pro teams. So why is this the case then - assuming it's something other than the reason I offered? I honestly can't think of another reason why the paridgm still exists. Or perhaps you can explain to me why Staal and Sanguinetti should be forced to play for teams full of 16 year olds, some of whom with half their talent, when they could EASILY qualify for the A? It's not to THEIR benefit, it's certainly not to the parent club's benefit, so... again, what exactly are the problems with what I'm saying?

(Heck, unlike the stupid rules in the NBA and NFL, here you can't even pretend to justify it based on making the kids get an education.)

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09-29-2006, 12:40 PM
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Yes the rule is to benefit the CHL and I am quite thankful the rule is there. Since I live four hours away from the closest place to catch an NHL or AHL game I rather enjoy being able to watch some future stars in my hometown. You say he will be playing with a bunch of sixteen year olds but teams are actually limited to how many 16 year olds play. They only have so many cards they can use on rookies. Sure Marc and a few other elite would benefit from playing in the AHL a year early but consider the ones who are not. There are no exceptions to the rule for a few exceptional players. I understand you being upset but consider it this way. You steal our stars (Like Staal or Wolski or Tavares) early than the CHL becomes a watered down league. Now let me tell you I would not pay sixteen dollars a ticket to watch crap. I pay good money to watch good players in this league. So eventually the attendance dies down and than the league begins to dwindle and teams start folding. All of a sudden we lose the CHL and players now have to go to lower standard development leagues producing talent not up to par. This in turns affects the NHL. And for what? Moving a few stars up a year early? The NHL recognizes this that is why the rule is left intact. And the CHL is still the best development league in the world.

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09-29-2006, 01:40 PM
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Yes the rule is to benefit the CHL and I am quite thankful the rule is there. Since I live four hours away from the closest place to catch an NHL or AHL game I rather enjoy being able to watch some future stars in my hometown. You say he will be playing with a bunch of sixteen year olds but teams are actually limited to how many 16 year olds play. They only have so many cards they can use on rookies. Sure Marc and a few other elite would benefit from playing in the AHL a year early but consider the ones who are not. There are no exceptions to the rule for a few exceptional players. I understand you being upset but consider it this way. You steal our stars (Like Staal or Wolski or Tavares) early than the CHL becomes a watered down league. Now let me tell you I would not pay sixteen dollars a ticket to watch crap. I pay good money to watch good players in this league. So eventually the attendance dies down and than the league begins to dwindle and teams start folding. All of a sudden we lose the CHL and players now have to go to lower standard development leagues producing talent not up to par. This in turns affects the NHL. And for what? Moving a few stars up a year early? The NHL recognizes this that is why the rule is left intact. And the CHL is still the best development league in the world.
Baseball seems to survive just fine with minor league teams that serve the big teams and not the other way around.

The alternate scenario you dismissively proposed would work out much better for the big clubs. The lower standard development leagues you refer to would significantly raise their level of "par" as they increased the percentage of pro prospects to journeymen. Furthermore, the big clubs would have a lot more control over the development of their players. As a result, the level of play throughout the system would INCREASE, particularly in the AHL and eventually in the NHL.

And at the same time, yes, some CHL teams would start to fold (others would no doubt become part of the multi-tiered minor league system). So what's the problem with that? Other than you and 3,999 other fans would lose your team, I mean. I realize that's cold, but it's basic economics - the overall benefit to the community of North American hockey fans would increase.

As it stands (in regard to Staal), the interests of the Greater Sudbury area (pop. 155,000) are being placed ahead of those of the NY metro area (pop. 25,000,000). Even if you factor in relative levels of hockey interest in both locations, that's still complete and total BS. Which again is why I say there is no rationale for the current system other than the fact that those negotiating the deals are good ol' Canadian boys protecting an anchronistic system that benefits small Canadian towns with populations in 5 figures at the expense of the big clubs that serve marketplaces with populations in the 7-8 figure range.

Not to worry - at least for the time being, the system seems fairly well entrenched, as illogical as it is.

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