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Are we competitive next year?

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Old
05-07-2013, 07:58 AM
  #51
DrinkFightFlyers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Hackett was the guy that had the serious vertigo issues didnt he?
There was an old NHL game for PS1 or PS2 (don't remember which one...could have been a 2k, EA, or even one of the old Faceoff games) where goalies would CONSTANTLY be injured and miss weeks at a time because of vertigo. I lol'd just now at work reading about someone with vertigo.

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05-07-2013, 08:10 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by spudnick View Post
Both were supposed to be these great cant miss prospects and neither has lived up to thier hype. Both are VERY streaky, score in bunches then cant find the score sheet for extended periods of time. Just like JVR, Schenn could be moved for the right price or peice.
Who do you expect to replace him? Laughton? A FA?

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05-07-2013, 08:46 AM
  #53
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Who do you expect to replace him? Laughton? A FA?
Possibly either. Probably lean towards a FA. In all honesty about 1/2 to 3/4 of the leagues 2nd line centers are just as good or better then Schenn. Im not saying get rid of him or that he sucks but if a deal for a quality Dman is there and they want Schenn I would pull the trigger and fill the 2nd line center. I just think B Schenn is easily replaceable

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05-07-2013, 08:55 AM
  #54
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I think the team only signing its RFAs is a playoff team if healthy:

Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Danny Briere ($6.500m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Tye McGinn ($0.775m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Scott Laughton ($1.138m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m)
Jay Rosehill ($0.675m) /

Kimmo Timonen ($6.000m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Erik Gustafsson ($1.000m) / Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m)
Bruno Gervais ($0.825m)

Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Steve Mason ($1.500m)
OTHER
Buyout: Oskars Bartulis ($0.100m)

SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,389,167; BONUSES: $3,012,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,923,333

Depends what Homer can do to get more out of Briere's cap hit and Meszaros' cap hit.

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05-07-2013, 10:00 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spudnick View Post
Possibly either. Probably lean towards a FA. In all honesty about 1/2 to 3/4 of the leagues 2nd line centers are just as good or better then Schenn. Im not saying get rid of him or that he sucks but if a deal for a quality Dman is there and they want Schenn I would pull the trigger and fill the 2nd line center. I just think B Schenn is easily replaceable
He may be easily replaceable in the sense that his production from last year can be replaced, but I think his future potential cannot easily be replaced. I wouldn't have a problem dealing Schenn (or Couturier or Laughton) because of the logjam at center, but I wouldn't say that Schenn is easily replaced. I think improving the defense while taking a hit on offense is a better way to look at it. Obviously his potential, like many others, may never be reached, but a 22 year old kid with potential like Schenn's is not easily replaced. He was looking at roughly a 50 point season at 22 years old (if this season was a full one). Those aren't numbers to scoff at.

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05-07-2013, 10:03 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
He may be easily replaceable in the sense that his production from last year can be replaced, but I think his future potential cannot easily be replaced. I wouldn't have a problem dealing Schenn (or Couturier or Laughton) because of the logjam at center, but I wouldn't say that Schenn is easily replaced. I think improving the defense while taking a hit on offense is a better way to look at it. Obviously his potential, like many others, may never be reached, but a 22 year old kid with potential like Schenn's is not easily replaced. He was looking at roughly a 50 point season at 22 years old (if this season was a full one). Those aren't numbers to scoff at.
Like Bob before him, I think we end up regretting it big-time if we let Schenn go.

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05-07-2013, 10:13 AM
  #57
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IMO we should not be trading Giroux, couturier, Simmonds, Voracek, B. Schenn or L. Schenn unless it is for a rediculous overpayment which I don't see happening. Anyone else I would be willing to move to upgrade the team. It is too soon to give up on these kids after one lockout shortened season.

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05-07-2013, 10:25 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by OzFlyer View Post
So we need to bring in some UFA Scoring next season?
I think we hope Hartnell has a better season.

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05-07-2013, 10:33 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I think we hope Hartnell has a better season.
I think we still end up targeting a guy that can notch 40-45 points to round out the top 9.

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05-07-2013, 10:37 AM
  #60
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I don't see a team with B. Schenn at 2C as a cup contender. Hopefully he proves me wrong.

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05-07-2013, 10:38 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingsouth View Post
Like Bob before him, I think we end up regretting it big-time if we let Schenn go.
It all depends. Any trade can backfire. Hanging on to him could also look foolish in the future if it turns out there was a deal on the table that we turned down. As far as regretting the Bob trade, I'd hold off on that at least until he gets a full season under his belt. There are a slew of goalies who have one good year and then disappear.

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05-07-2013, 10:52 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by BrimFullofAsham45 View Post
I don't see a team with B. Schenn at 2C as a cup contender. Hopefully he proves me wrong.
Schenn in his first full NHL season put up .55 points per game playing center and wing(pro-rated he would have had 44 points)(of course this was abbreviated as well from the lockout). He played better at center as well. In his first abbreviated season two seasons ago he had .33 points per game. If we continue the trend of him improving his numbers, and I will go lower than the .22 increase he had in the past two seasons. If he averages .70(.15 increase in PPG) he will have 57 points in a season. That is second line material. If he breaks 60 points he definitely will be a second line center no doubt.

Schenn has the tools to become a 1st line center in this league, he is just behind Claude Giroux. I could see his peak coming in around where Richards was, but maybe a little higher due to him having more skill. He is only 21 years old and has a lot of time to improve and grow into his game. He has a great work ethic dating back to juniors and is a warrior. I don't see how people can't see his potential. It just takes some players longer to grow into their roles, especially ones who rely a lot of the physical game to get him going. Schenn will be a great player in this league, just not a superstar like people all want our prospects to be.

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05-07-2013, 10:56 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
It all depends. Any trade can backfire. Hanging on to him could also look foolish in the future if it turns out there was a deal on the table that we turned down. As far as regretting the Bob trade, I'd hold off on that at least until he gets a full season under his belt. There are a slew of goalies who have one good year and then disappear.
Completely valid points. My feeling is that Schenn will be a gun on the second line when the breakthrough comes and that Bobs is for real. Only the future can prove things either way.

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05-07-2013, 10:58 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
Schenn in his first full NHL season put up .55 points per game playing center and wing(pro-rated he would have had 44 points)(of course this was abbreviated as well from the lockout). He played better at center as well. In his first abbreviated season two seasons ago he had .33 points per game. If we continue the trend of him improving his numbers, and I will go lower than the .22 increase he had in the past two seasons. If he averages .70(.15 increase in PPG) he will have 57 points in a season. That is second line material. If he breaks 60 points he definitely will be a second line center no doubt.

Schenn has the tools to become a 1st line center in this league, he is just behind Claude Giroux. I could see his peak coming in around where Richards was, but maybe a little higher due to him having more skill. He is only 21 years old and has a lot of time to improve and grow into his game. He has a great work ethic dating back to juniors and is a warrior. I don't see how people can't see his potential. It just takes some players longer to grow into their roles, especially ones who rely a lot of the physical game to get him going. Schenn will be a great player in this league, just not a superstar like people all want our prospects to be.
Agree 100%. The kid has great vision, composure and creativity with the puck, which is why he needs to play C. He can also score. His hitting game, which is important as you note, will get better as he fills out. He already hits a tonne, it'll get better with a bit more natural growth. He's definitely a 2C in the NHL now, and will get better.

He's in the same boat as Couturier, he just needs to work on adding a little more speed to his stride and he'll be a great player.

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Old
05-07-2013, 11:17 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by flyingsouth View Post
Completely valid points. My feeling is that Schenn will be a gun on the second line when the breakthrough comes and that Bobs is for real. Only the future can prove things either way.
Oh and both of those are certainly possiblities. I love Schenn and have no interest in trading him just to trade him. But this team has glaring deficiencies. If Schenn (or Couturier/Laughton/etc) could be dealt to improve the defense, I think you do it for the right deal. This is a lot like the JvR for Schenn deal. I think JvR is the better player, and will put up better numbers. But JvR was expendable on this team, and Schenn filled a need on this team. You can't just look at the names or the stats in a vacuum. In the context of how things look right now, even if Schenn (or whomever) turned out better than the guy we got, if it improves the team on balance its a move I think you make. Schenn may be better than Player X, but if Player X fills a need of this team, I think it is something as a GM that you really consider.

Now this obviously applies only to good deals, I wouldn't trade Schenn for the rights to Mark Streit. But if Schenn was in a deal for someone like Yandle, I'd take a look at it.

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05-07-2013, 11:32 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Oh and both of those are certainly possiblities. I love Schenn and have no interest in trading him just to trade him. But this team has glaring deficiencies. If Schenn (or Couturier/Laughton/etc) could be dealt to improve the defense, I think you do it for the right deal. This is a lot like the JvR for Schenn deal. I think JvR is the better player, and will put up better numbers. But JvR was expendable on this team, and Schenn filled a need on this team. You can't just look at the names or the stats in a vacuum. In the context of how things look right now, even if Schenn (or whomever) turned out better than the guy we got, if it improves the team on balance its a move I think you make. Schenn may be better than Player X, but if Player X fills a need of this team, I think it is something as a GM that you really consider.

Now this obviously applies only to good deals, I wouldn't trade Schenn for the rights to Mark Streit. But if Schenn was in a deal for someone like Yandle, I'd take a look at it.
Well that's it, the big strength of this team is in the middle which makes Brayden a little more available than he might have been if it were not the case. I would be open to including him in a package for a big time talent that could anchor this defense in the way that this unit has been lacking since Pronger went down, but it'd have to be a pretty damn good offer for me to want to part with him because I think Schenn will eventually live up to his potential.

It's really Laughton that gives us that safety blanket, but I've gotta be honest, considering what he seems likely to bring, I think I part with Couts before I lose Schenn if it comes to that... and I'm a big Couturier fan.

About Yandle... from my limited viewings of the guy, he seems pretty damn good, but I've seen him compared to Carle, which is disturbing (for the positives Matt brought, his negatives kicked us in the nuts a whole bunch over the years)... does anyone who has seen Phoenix more (which isn't that hard, tbh) have a clearer view on what he can bring?

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05-07-2013, 11:48 AM
  #67
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If goaltending was at least average, our defense healthy and our forwards consistently scoring, then yes, we will be contending. Or at least in the playoffs.

Maybe something like this:

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek
Schenn-Couturier-Simmonds
Gagne-Laughton-Akeson/McGinn
McGinn/Akeson-Talbot-Rinaldo
Rosehill

Timonen-Schenn
Coburn-Grossmann
Mez-Gus
Gervais/Dane

Bryz
Mason

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05-07-2013, 11:51 AM
  #68
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I cant see Holmgren trading either Schenn honestly.

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05-07-2013, 12:07 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
Schenn in his first full NHL season put up .55 points per game playing center and wing(pro-rated he would have had 44 points)(of course this was abbreviated as well from the lockout). He played better at center as well. In his first abbreviated season two seasons ago he had .33 points per game. If we continue the trend of him improving his numbers, and I will go lower than the .22 increase he had in the past two seasons. If he averages .70(.15 increase in PPG) he will have 57 points in a season. That is second line material. If he breaks 60 points he definitely will be a second line center no doubt.

Schenn has the tools to become a 1st line center in this league, he is just behind Claude Giroux. I could see his peak coming in around where Richards was, but maybe a little higher due to him having more skill. He is only 21 years old and has a lot of time to improve and grow into his game. He has a great work ethic dating back to juniors and is a warrior. I don't see how people can't see his potential. It just takes some players longer to grow into their roles, especially ones who rely a lot of the physical game to get him going. Schenn will be a great player in this league, just not a superstar like people all want our prospects to be.
I see the potential, and he certainly is young, so he's got plenty of time to become an impact player.

I'm not counting him out yet, but I am not yet convinced he will reach Mike Richards' level, which will unfortunately be Brayden's measuring stick as long as he is a Flyer. Its hard to quantify what is missing from his game, but he's still a little bit raw. He definitely needs to tame his game a little bit, he looks lost a lot and is prone to running around.

Best case scenario for Schenn and the team, I think, is that he learns how to play wing. Yeah, he's played better at center, but he hasn't been a world beater there either. He's got all the tools to be a great winger, so I'm inclined to say that his hockey IQ may be a little bit lacking if he can't play well at LW. Eventually, Couturier and Laughton are going to be knocking on the door, and I think they are both better fit for the 2C spot than Schenn, at least in the long run.

Overall: if we want to make a deep playoff run with our current roster, Schenn (among others) will have to make extreme strides next season.

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Old
05-07-2013, 12:08 PM
  #70
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The organization just needs to be patient with Couturier and Schenn. Whether they are able to is a different matter. I really hope the front office doesn't believe Bryz is the man and tries to make big moves to build around him before his "window" closes.

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05-07-2013, 12:49 PM
  #71
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http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...r__Teflon.html

I didn't see this posted anywhere, so apologies if someone's put it up in another thread. This is one of the first Philly-media articles I've seen that's been critical of Snider. Not the most in-depth, but still interesting. I'm glad that somebody in the media is finally looking up the chain.

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05-07-2013, 01:54 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
Schenn
I agree with most of your points about Schenn. I would add as well: He has 4 more years of uptick before age 25 where players no longer tend to trend upward any longer. He's only going to get stronger and he already plays a strong game.

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05-07-2013, 02:45 PM
  #73
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Schenn could use a winger who can skate the puck for his line, and is a playmaker type

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05-07-2013, 07:13 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
IMO we should not be trading Giroux, couturier, Simmonds, Voracek, B. Schenn or L. Schenn unless it is for a rediculous overpayment which I don't see happening. Anyone else I would be willing to move to upgrade the team. It is too soon to give up on these kids after one lockout shortened season.

I agree with you. I also think one of the centers needs to convert to wing. I'm hoping we make some trades at the draft to get another 1st.

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05-07-2013, 07:54 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...r__Teflon.html

I didn't see this posted anywhere, so apologies if someone's put it up in another thread. This is one of the first Philly-media articles I've seen that's been critical of Snider. Not the most in-depth, but still interesting. I'm glad that somebody in the media is finally looking up the chain.
this is kind of dumb. There isn't much reason to really criticize Snider...

Say what you want, this franchise is one of the most successful franchises in hockey, although we haven't won the big one in a long time.

The bottom line is there is no sure fire way to win a cup, if there was, most owners would do it.


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