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Phoenix LXXVI: Renaissance Men

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05-07-2013, 10:48 AM
  #326
JB52
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Does the Glendale Star have a scoop here, or are they 24 hours late?

Updated: 7:28 am, Tue May 7, 2013.

As the process toward the purchase of the Phoenix Coyotes reaches a critical stage, Renaissance Sports & Entertainment and National Hockey League executives will meet with representatives from the City of Glendale today.

http://www.glendalestar.com/sports/a...a4bcf887a.html

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05-07-2013, 10:48 AM
  #327
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The only reason why the NHL is working so hard to attempt to keep the team in Glendale is because of the arena. Glendale built that thing for the NHL.

If the NHL pins the blame on Glendale for the inability to get this done, then it's a shame. Sure, fan support hasn't been there, but Glendale has built an arena, paid the NHL to cover losses of the franchise while the club has been in ownership limbo, and put forth a couple of pretty adventurous attempts to close a deal, even risking bankrupting the city in doing so.

Yet, pretty much all the NHL has given Glendale in terms of potential owners is a few groups of rich bozos looking for a pay day from Glendale.

Leaving a city after they built you an arena, or staying in a dead market because of an arena... it's a lose-lose situation that the NHL and Bettman have gotten themselves into.

You cannot blame Glendale for the mess the NHL has gotten itself into. This one is all on the NHL, no matter how they want to paint the picture as they leave the Phoenix market.

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05-07-2013, 10:49 AM
  #328
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Originally Posted by JordanStaal#1Fan View Post
I wonder if he'll accept to take a picture with me and my Nordiques gear
If a team ever goes to Quebec City I seriously question if the league would even approve of the name Nordiques. The size and reach of the games is far different than 30 years ago when the Nords first made it to the NHL. The name may be too weird and too French for the league to swallow. Heck my wife is French Canadian from montreal and isn't exactly sure what a Nordique is.

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05-07-2013, 10:55 AM
  #329
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Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
If a team ever goes to Quebec City I seriously question if the league would even approve of the name Nordiques. The size and reach of the games is far different than 30 years ago when the Nords first made it to the NHL. The name may be too weird and too French for the league to swallow. Heck my wife is French Canadian from montreal and isn't exactly sure what a Nordique is.
What about Le Club de hockey canadien de Montréal?

The league will approove the name, don't worry. They want the "Nords" name all over eastern USA.

Ask any Bruins, Habs, Leafs, Jets, (etc etc) fan their opinion.

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05-07-2013, 10:59 AM
  #330
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Originally Posted by JB52 View Post
Does the Glendale Star have a scoop here, or are they 24 hours late?

Updated: 7:28 am, Tue May 7, 2013.

As the process toward the purchase of the Phoenix Coyotes reaches a critical stage, Renaissance Sports & Entertainment and National Hockey League executives will meet with representatives from the City of Glendale today.

http://www.glendalestar.com/sports/a...a4bcf887a.html
They are late...Guess they don't follow Darren MR NHL Spokesperson Dreger

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05-07-2013, 10:59 AM
  #331
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But again, the only thing that make me think all that.. is the way the NHL is reacting right now and going public like that.
Welcome to hf gyom999! ..... and yes, Omerta. Usually the way they play it, so your suggestion that this is all really just a big charade in order to gain leverage in dealing with Quebecor is possible. It makes sense, a combination Leverage-Exit Strategy. If the NHL's demanding more than Winnipeg, a market of app the same size, $170M all-in including the Relo-Fee well, that aint right. So sure, if I was PKP, I wouldnt just roll over, bark, shake a paw or just jump when asked to. And yes, well aware of how badly he wants a franchise but still. Theres a right way and a wrong way. The mans no fool and he wont be played for one.

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05-07-2013, 11:01 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by JB52 View Post
Does the Glendale Star have a scoop here, or are they 24 hours late?

Updated: 7:28 am, Tue May 7, 2013.

As the process toward the purchase of the Phoenix Coyotes reaches a critical stage, Renaissance Sports & Entertainment and National Hockey League executives will meet with representatives from the City of Glendale today.

http://www.glendalestar.com/sports/a...a4bcf887a.html
Here's the best part of that article...

Quote:
Sources say an announcement about a Renaissance purchase could come in the next two weeks

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05-07-2013, 11:02 AM
  #333
tarheelhockey
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Originally Posted by QcBlizzard View Post
What about Le Club de hockey canadien de Montréal?

The league will approove the name, don't worry. They want the "Nords" name all over eastern USA.

Ask any Bruins, Habs, Leafs, Jets, (etc etc) fan their opinion.
I don't really think it matters whether the name is marketable in the USA. It's not like Americans are going to flock to the Quebec City team if they're named the Ice Bears or whatever.

QC is a small, ethnic market in Canada. Any way you look at it, they're going to be obscure when compared to the Leafs and Rangers of the world. The smart thing is to go ahead and give them whatever name the local market finds most appealing, because the local market is going to be where they live or die.

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05-07-2013, 11:04 AM
  #334
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Sources say an announcement about a Renaissance purchase could come in the next two weeks

They are right. Its been the case since two years now.

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05-07-2013, 11:08 AM
  #335
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
I don't really think it matters whether the name is marketable in the USA. It's not like Americans are going to flock to the Quebec City team if they're named the Ice Bears or whatever.

QC is a small, ethnic market in Canada. Any way you look at it, they're going to be obscure when compared to the Leafs and Rangers of the world. The smart thing is to go ahead and give them whatever name the local market finds most appealing, because the local market is going to be where they live or die.
You're right.

Theres the history linked to the name, the fact Nordiques gear is still a hot seller, the fact PKP should name its toy after he solves the leagues problem, if the thing happen.

The name is obvious.

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05-07-2013, 11:10 AM
  #336
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Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
If a team ever goes to Quebec City I seriously question if the league would even approve of the name Nordiques. The size and reach of the games is far different than 30 years ago when the Nords first made it to the NHL. The name may be too weird and too French for the league to swallow. Heck my wife is French Canadian from montreal and isn't exactly sure what a Nordique is.
Well, in the age of the internet her answer is one click away.

And the name Nordiques has a lot of nostalgia and goodwill built up, not just in Canada but in the US as well. If the new owners want the Nordiques name the league will have absolutely no problem with them using it, just like the Jets.

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05-07-2013, 11:24 AM
  #337
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Without wandering too far down the rabbit trail, the Jets name was resurrected more-or-less because of the public pressure, if I recall correctly. Chipman et al had a different name for the team, but the public insisted they were the Jets, so the Jets they were.

And very interesting about the 2-weeks thing. I really don't think the CoG is open for old-style business anymore, and the actual costs of running the arena making it onto the front page of the paper really is the end of the gravy train here.

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05-07-2013, 11:31 AM
  #338
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The only reason why the NHL is working so hard to attempt to keep the team in Glendale is because of the arena. Glendale built that thing for the NHL.
No city should build a facility for the specific use of one team and put all their financial plans and hopes on landing that one team.

Winnipeg needed a new arena so they built one and it had nothing to do with the NHL. That arena was a success without landing an NHL team. The NHL team is just making it more successful.

Quebec City also needs an new arena and they are building one. And I'm sure it will also be a success even if they never land an NHL team.

Glendale built their arena for the sole purpose of having NHL hockey in it and to be the anchor that would make Westgate a financial success. That was a mistake. They fully over-estimated how much money they were going to get from having a team there as well as over-estimating how many non-hockey events they would be able to draw.

As far as the NHL, they are fighting just to say they fought the good fight. It's all optics, because no matter what happens in Glendale, there is some other city somewhere just waiting to try their chance at the same dream Glendale had. Cities will never stop building arenas because they will all continue to think that what went wrong in Glendale will never happen to them.

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05-07-2013, 11:33 AM
  #339
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Originally Posted by metalfoot View Post
Without wandering too far down the rabbit trail, the Jets name was resurrected more-or-less because of the public pressure, if I recall correctly. Chipman et al had a different name for the team, but the public insisted they were the Jets, so the Jets they were.
Indeed. I can see the same pressure from the QC residents, too, to keep the Nords name.

Quote:
And very interesting about the 2-weeks thing. I really don't think the CoG is open for old-style business anymore, and the actual costs of running the arena making it onto the front page of the paper really is the end of the gravy train here.
Absolutely. The day that was printed may have been the day the team's move became a fait accompli. That latest newspaper column made it seem like people are lining up to buy the team. But if the city ponies up $5-6 million and the frontrunners balk, the NHL need only get a show of hands from anyone else interested in keeping the team in Glendale to see if that's sufficient. There's no need to keep this circus show going. Once the city puts it out there what exactly they will be willing to pay, I would think the suitors will drop like flies except the ones who want to move the team.

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05-07-2013, 11:34 AM
  #340
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Originally Posted by metalfoot View Post
Without wandering too far down the rabbit trail, the Jets name was resurrected more-or-less because of the public pressure, if I recall correctly. Chipman et al had a different name for the team, but the public insisted they were the Jets, so the Jets they were.

And very interesting about the 2-weeks thing. I really don't think the CoG is open for old-style business anymore, and the actual costs of running the arena making it onto the front page of the paper really is the end of the gravy train here.
Yeah as a slight aside, you got the feeling in Winnipeg Chipman wanted this to be his own baby, and wanted ole connections to be left as that. Public pressure was too much though.

It was revealed months later True North wanted it to be the Bears but the Bruins complained, so Polar Bears was their next choice. Despite my opinion of True North, I don't know how their marketing department thought that was going to be a good name.....

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05-07-2013, 11:37 AM
  #341
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And the name Nordiques has a lot of nostalgia and goodwill built up, not just in Canada but in the US as well. If the new owners want the Nordiques name the league will have absolutely no problem with them using it, just like the Jets.
Ya I agree. Theres a lot of history, legend in that name, not unlike the Jets really and if I had to measure the two off against one anothers: Jets / Nordiques, I'd say the Nordiques is an even more powerful name, conjuring up all kinds of images, perhaps the strongest being The Battle of Quebec with Montreal. Yes its a small market but the brand, the name itself is far far larger, and I think easily on par with Dynasty's and every other team thats entered since 1967-68. Quebec was a founding member of the NHL, kin & cousin to Ottawa with the Senators though back then of course called the Bulldogs.... and earlier poster: what is a Nordique? It was the name of a native Indian Band in the region of Quebec called Ungava (Peninsula) in the far northern sector of the province. Not unlike the Chicago Black Hawks (a Chief & tribe named that, adopted by Major Fred McLaughlin's WW1 US Regiment, naming his team after them).


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05-07-2013, 11:56 AM
  #342
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Yeah as a slight aside, you got the feeling in Winnipeg Chipman wanted this to be his own baby, and wanted ole connections to be left as that. Public pressure was too much though....
Ya, that just wouldnt have been right, to re-brand them, new name. As it is, Im not enamoured with the re-designed main logo, wouldve much preferred full-on retro with some tweaks. I like to remember the notorious Ben Hatskin, Hull, Avco's & the WHA, Hawerchuk & all of the rest of them (including Winnipeg Arena) that that old logo invokes.... should Gosbee somehow pull this off, new branding & I.D. for the Coyotes would pretty much be Job #1. And there again, a lot of interesting possibilities in terms of logo & jersey design. So much more could be done, the current semi-retro CCCP stripe job's pretty weak tea.

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05-07-2013, 11:59 AM
  #343
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Say, you know what might be fun? How about if we go back to the Pollack/Hocking report and compared their projections against the statement of FY12/13 Actual

Pollack report on OPERATING COSTS FOR CITY OF GLENDALE WITH NO TEAM PRESENT forecast for 2013:
AMF: $12,000,000
Revenues on Non-Hockey Events: $1,089,880

Actual figures from SUMMARY FINANCIAL STATEMENT 2013 (6 months*)
AMF: $4,012,504
Revenues on Non-Hockey Events: $2,447,575

How could the Pollack projections be so far off in both areas? It's almost like they intentionally misrepresented the data...


* Not including January Actual
I understand they're being paid to come up with a certain answer, but it'd be nice if we lived in the world where people were accountable for what they say and do.

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05-07-2013, 12:04 PM
  #344
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Yeah as a slight aside, you got the feeling in Winnipeg Chipman wanted this to be his own baby, and wanted ole connections to be left as that. Public pressure was too much though.

It was revealed months later True North wanted it to be the Bears but the Bruins complained, so Polar Bears was their next choice. Despite my opinion of True North, I don't know how their marketing department thought that was going to be a good name.....
Polar Bears was never a name considered (debunked in person by Chipman), Bears was and a logo commissioned. That name and logo may be used for a Junior A team that in time will come to Winnipeg.

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05-07-2013, 12:05 PM
  #345
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I know it wouldn't go over well with the French-Canadian crowd, but I think just 'Quebec Northerners' would be a cool name should the NHL not want to use a francophone word for the team's name. Plus the locals would just call them the Nordiques anyway. But I'm just spitballing here, Nordiques would be the best way to go.

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05-07-2013, 12:09 PM
  #346
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Originally Posted by CasualFan View Post
Say, you know what might be fun? How about if we go back to the Pollack/Hocking report and compared their projections against the statement of FY12/13 Actual

Pollack report on OPERATING COSTS FOR CITY OF GLENDALE WITH NO TEAM PRESENT forecast for 2013:
AMF: $12,000,000
Revenues on Non-Hockey Events: $1,089,880

Actual figures from SUMMARY FINANCIAL STATEMENT 2013 (6 months*)
AMF: $4,012,504
Revenues on Non-Hockey Events: $2,447,575

How could the Pollack projections be so far off in both areas? It's almost like they intentionally misrepresented the data...


* Not including January Actual
Sort of like Prescott Valley or something.

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05-07-2013, 12:12 PM
  #347
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I know it wouldn't go over well with the French-Canadian crowd, but I think just 'Quebec Northerners' would be a cool name should the NHL not want to use a francophone word for the team's name. Plus the locals would just call them the Nordiques anyway. But I'm just spitballing here, Nordiques would be the best way to go.
Northerners would go over like a lead balloon.

The NHL approved the Mighty Ducks Of Anaheim so they can't reject a name with NHL history.

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05-07-2013, 12:24 PM
  #348
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
No city should build a facility for the specific use of one team and put all their financial plans and hopes on landing that one team.

Winnipeg needed a new arena so they built one and it had nothing to do with the NHL. That arena was a success without landing an NHL team. The NHL team is just making it more successful.

Quebec City also needs an new arena and they are building one. And I'm sure it will also be a success even if they never land an NHL team.

Glendale built their arena for the sole purpose of having NHL hockey in it and to be the anchor that would make Westgate a financial success. That was a mistake. They fully over-estimated how much money they were going to get from having a team there as well as over-estimating how many non-hockey events they would be able to draw.

As far as the NHL, they are fighting just to say they fought the good fight. It's all optics, because no matter what happens in Glendale, there is some other city somewhere just waiting to try their chance at the same dream Glendale had. Cities will never stop building arenas because they will all continue to think that what went wrong in Glendale will never happen to them.
KC needed a new arena too, built one without a tenant, and it's been a great success.

I think the big thing about all these arenas is that they were built (or are being built) in, or very close to downtown in their respective cities. Jobing.com isn't even considered the main venue in the Phoenix area. US Airways Arena has a lot more events booked this summer, and two other tenants (WNBA and AFL)... Jobing has Taylor Swift for two nights and the New Kids on the Block.

Going to Phoenix was a desperation move after the Winnipeg to Minnesota move didn't work out. The Jets needed somewhere to go, and the league took a chance on a market with an NBA only arena and hoped it could carve out enough of a niche to get an arena built in downtown Phoenix for themselves and make a go of it.

It's didn't happen, and the team was forced to take a deal from Glendale hope for the best.

It's like getting into a relationship that you know won't work out, and every time one side wants to break up, the two sides guilt the other to come back. And there's an attractive individual just wanting to be the rebound.

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05-07-2013, 12:27 PM
  #349
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Originally Posted by Major4Boarding View Post
OK, so why isn't he the front-runner then? If he has plenty of money and open to a scaled back lease agreement...



Oh... I see.

http://www.azcentral.com/insiders/da...-new-problems/
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Originally Posted by JimAnchower View Post
If he has plenty of money, why couldn't he close on the Blues sale?



http://www.stltoday.com/sports/hocke...6864f2462.html
If he has lots of money, why didn't he close the Coyotes' sale? What people seem to forget is that the Glendale city council was prepared to fork over $15 million or more in annual AMF for an extended period of time, and it only elicited Jamison's failed bid. There seems no good reason that someone else who wasn't prepared to make a bid with Jamison's deal would now want something less lucrative. Unless the COG has caught an enormous break and guys like Hulsizer, Reinsdorf and the Jamison group have had a change of heart and decided they didn't need those big subsidies.

I would speculate that if these guys are indeed circling overhead, it's because they see some sort of opportunity of either relocating the franchise or flipping it. Locking in to a long lease in Glendale for much less subsidy than they bargained for previously would be highly improbable.

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05-07-2013, 12:34 PM
  #350
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Originally Posted by CasualFan View Post
Say, you know what might be fun? How about if we go back to the Pollack/Hocking report and compared their projections against the statement of FY12/13 Actual

Pollack report on OPERATING COSTS FOR CITY OF GLENDALE WITH NO TEAM PRESENT forecast for 2013:
AMF: $12,000,000
Revenues on Non-Hockey Events: $1,089,880

Actual figures from SUMMARY FINANCIAL STATEMENT 2013 (6 months*)
AMF: $4,012,504
Revenues on Non-Hockey Events: $2,447,575

How could the Pollack projections be so far off in both areas? It's almost like they intentionally misrepresented the data...


* Not including January Actual

That AMF RFP is looking like a sweeter deal all the time. They just need to ensure that the COG doesn't bother them with any extraneous hassles like performance clauses.

With absolutely no effort (i.e. NHL-style arena management), the arena's balance sheet has them losing about $4 million per year. Sew up a $6 million AMF, and pocket $2 million per annum without breaking a sweat. No wonder the IEH boys (i.e. Lakehead Yale) were so keen on sneaking in with a "Plan B" for managing the Jobing.com without the Coyotes. They've looked under the hood of the Jobing.com finances and they know that there's money to be made without an NHL franchise.

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