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Old
09-21-2006, 10:37 AM
  #26
EJsens1
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Originally Posted by Sens are like Whoa View Post
A part of me thinks that he if didn't make the team he'd be discouraged and would prefer to head back to Russia as opposed being a trading chip.

I think they'll make the decision right out of camp, I doubt they will cut him loose halfway through the season. I see it like this, if they decide to roll with him after camp he will be with us regardless of how well he performs. If he really can't adapt I'll bet they just cut his time severly and release him come seasons end, or try and negotiate something to send him to the AHL after the season. Either that or they'll cut him very early in the season, before the new year.

But, that's my take. I still think (hope) he will adapt and gel well on the team.
I thought it was settled that when he signed that 2 year deal, he was here to stay in North America. There was no out clause to go back to Russia whether he makes the Senators or is sent down to Binghamton.

I didn't notice him much last night at all either. But when he did have the puck, I noticed he has an awesome backhand pass, which was seldomly used last night. The faceoffs are an area of concern though. That is an area we've never been good at as a team.

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09-21-2006, 10:38 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Sens are like Whoa View Post
A part of me thinks that he if didn't make the team he'd be discouraged and would prefer to head back to Russia as opposed being a trading chip.

I think they'll make the decision right out of camp, I doubt they will cut him loose halfway through the season. I see it like this, if they decide to roll with him after camp he will be with us regardless of how well he performs. If he really can't adapt I'll bet they just cut his time severly and release him come seasons end, or try and negotiate something to send him to the AHL after the season. Either that or they'll cut him very early in the season, before the new year.

But, that's my take. I still think (hope) he will adapt and gel well on the team.

I think carrying him on the roster all season if he isn't adapting becomes a very expensive proposition for a team like Ottawa. Cutting his ice time doesn't help, because he needs to be with offensive players to play the role that is required of him. I think he's more likely to be in the pressbox than the 3rd or 4th line.

If carrying him on our roster impacts our ability to bring in an additional player at the deadline, management has a tough decision to make. In particular, if he's not able to handle that role of the #2C, the requirement for another player who can becomes a major priority, and that salary room will be needed in order to make a deal. I think if Kaigorodov is unable to play at that level, with half a season to adjust to the NA game, I think his personal wishes will be ignored. He'll be sent down to the minors, or released from the Sens to go back to Russia, if the CBA allows us to, while not suferring any cap implications.

Again, this is all speculation, and, it's highly unlikely that he won't be a 50 point player in Ottawa, which is the threshold, in my mind, for him to maintain his position.

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09-21-2006, 10:45 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by discostu View Post
I think carrying him on the roster all season if he isn't adapting becomes a very expensive proposition for a team like Ottawa. Cutting his ice time doesn't help, because he needs to be with offensive players to play the role that is required of him. I think he's more likely to be in the pressbox than the 3rd or 4th line.

If carrying him on our roster impacts our ability to bring in an additional player at the deadline, management has a tough decision to make. In particular, if he's not able to handle that role of the #2C, the requirement for another player who can becomes a major priority, and that salary room will be needed in order to make a deal. I think if Kaigorodov is unable to play at that level, with half a season to adjust to the NA game, I think his personal wishes will be ignored. He'll be sent down to the minors, or released from the Sens to go back to Russia, if the CBA allows us to, while not suferring any cap implications.

Again, this is all speculation, and, it's highly unlikely that he won't be a 50 point player in Ottawa, which is the threshold, in my mind, for him to maintain his position.
I agree with that. My logic is knowing that Muckler is fairly stubborn with his mistakes/aquisitions I couldn't see him sending Kaigorodov back to Russia deep into the season. Also, seeing as how he won't play in the AHL it pretty much restricts what we're able to do with him. I don't even know if there is a trade option available (Anyone?).

Either way, I'm confident he will impress once he adapts so this is really a moot point.

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09-21-2006, 10:53 AM
  #29
EJsens1
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Well, I remember seeing this article and it says he will get sent down to Binghamton if he doesn't make the team, not return to Russia

http://ottsun.canoe.ca/Sports/Column...4/1837874.html

Quote:
Muckler, meanwhile, quelled any notion that Kaigorodov will return to Russia if he doesn't make the team.

The club didn't bring the 23-year-old here to play in the minors, but if it so happens he's not quite ready for the NHL, he'll start the season in Binghamton.

"We brought him here because we believe he's going to play for this hockey club," said Muckler.

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Old
09-21-2006, 11:00 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Craven Morehead View Post
Well, I remember seeing this article and it says he will get sent down to Binghamton if he doesn't make the team, not return to Russia

http://ottsun.canoe.ca/Sports/Column...4/1837874.html
That contradicts everything I've read... First time I've heard it. Although I hope it's accurate.

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09-21-2006, 11:08 AM
  #31
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Doesn't sound too promising. Although I think a lot of people are expecting too much for his first game in North America. Give him a few games to adjust and hopefully he'll pick up his play. Hes also trying to gel with 2 new linemates.

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09-21-2006, 11:42 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Foster View Post
Folk's it was his first game at the NHL level?!?!?!?!
You would have to thunk that a little bit of hisitation was there on his part. It's pre-season, and I'am sure he needs some time to get up to speed. You can't just throw a guy in the fire and expect him to come out smlling like roses.
Unless the guy's name is Bure; some dazzle straight away.

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09-21-2006, 11:46 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Slitty View Post
Unless the guy's name is Bure; some dazzle straight away.
Could you repeat that? I didnt catch it.

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Old
09-21-2006, 12:17 PM
  #34
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It is interesting that Fisher and Vermette seem to be gelling so well together, given that it many ways they are the same player. Both are incredibly tenacious in both ends of the ice and both have excellent breakaway speed and pretty good finishing ability, but both have always been criticized for their lack of vision and inability to work well with others. Maybe they get each other somehow. If it continues to work well, they could be a dynamite line and an even better PK combo. If we thought we scored a lot of shorthanded goals last year, imagine what these two could do together.

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09-21-2006, 12:22 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by senility View Post
It is interesting that Fisher and Vermette seem to be gelling so well together, given that it many ways they are the same player. Both are incredibly tenacious in both ends of the ice and both have excellent breakaway speed and pretty good finishing ability, but both have always been criticized for their lack of vision and inability to work well with others. Maybe they get each other somehow. If it continues to work well, they could be a dynamite line and an even better PK combo. If we thought we scored a lot of shorthanded goals last year, imagine what these two could do together.
That's a great point. A couple times last year, Vermette would be Ottawa's best player on the ice, but those were far and few. I think having Neil on the right side helps them out because players can't take liberties on Vermette and Fisher. Plus, Neil's skill and skating have improved so much that its a strength to his overall game, not a liability when he first came into the NHL. Neil is a player with whom an organization sticks with and have their time/patience pay off. He's never going to be a top 2 line forward, but he is more then servicable and you can never doubt his heart/dedication.

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09-21-2006, 12:31 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Heatley4Hart View Post
Kid better take advantage of this oppartunity to play with a player like Alfredsson and given a chance to be the teams #2 center...because no matter what he does, even if he was to turn out, I dont think he is half the player Mike Fisher is.

Fish is awsome! his speed and skill are starting to catch up to his desire and hustle. You might say otherwise, but I realy think he is the Sens BEST overall forward already and can definitely emerge as one.

While it wouldn't be a good thing, if Kia bombs, I dont think that would matter a whole lot. Pump Fisher up, that is why we got guys like McCamond who is/can be a proven quality 3rd line center, and we also have guys like Vermette.

It was only his firts game, but Kiagorodov was invisible.

Then again, Bochenski was not...but I still think Bo is a good player who has a future
Thats all good great and grand but Fisher doesnt see the ice very well. Like last night he is the best player on his line when he always has the puck. Playing with Alfie and his creativity Fisher will be far less effective. Kaigorodov is the opposite kindof player of fish. In todays nhl both kinds of players can be effective and both are usefull. Fisher is absolutely served best when he is the third line center he gives the sens one of the best third lines in the nhl. Without him the third line can turn into a liability.

I totally agree with you on Bo im not sure why everyone around here was so hard on him he is a good player.

And whoever said he reminds them of Schastlivy I am very confused. Schastlivy was a sniper left winger who rarely had the puck. Kaigorodov is a puck distributing centerman who has the puck alot i saw next to no similiarities.

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Old
09-21-2006, 12:39 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by discostu View Post
Yes, but that seems to assume that it was based on what he did coming out of camp. If he didn't make the team, he'd go back over. If it's the middle of the season, the circumstances seem a little different.

I've never heard of a player switching to an overseas team in the middle of the NHL season before. That's why I'm a little confused.
Midseason... gotcha. I assumed you meant coming out of camp.

I'm of the opinion that they will need to make sure he is absolutely ready to play in the NHL before starting the season with him on the roster. Not just ready, but second line ready, since that seems to be the position he needs to be in (and the one they need the most help with).

Having said that, if he slumps as the season goes on, I can't see them trading him - it's way too soon to give up on a guy with that upside. I have a feeling he won't take being sent to the minors very well, either. I'm guessing they have to let him play through it, reducing his ice time as needed, and hoping he turns it around. Perhaps he's even a healthy scratch, and they bring someone else in mid-season for the 2nd line C job.


Edit: Sens are like whoa said exactly what I did... maybe I should actually read these threads

I doubt they can send him back to Russia without cap implications, though, since that's analagous to cutting him, really.

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09-21-2006, 12:53 PM
  #38
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The kid has barely touched down in North America, and has little understanding of the language and cultural environment. As for playing hockey, he needs to adjust to the smaller ice size and new linemates. I'm sure the speed isn't a factor. He probably needs 10 games or so to work the on ice issues out and half a season getting to know the new environment.

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Old
09-21-2006, 12:59 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by jamiebez View Post
Edit: Sens are like whoa said exactly what I did... maybe I should actually read these threads

Get out of my head...

On that note, who wants to sign up for an "Mmmmkai?" T-Shirt.

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Old
09-21-2006, 01:15 PM
  #40
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Some thoughts on Kai.

Its too early to panic, rember Patrick Eaves ? He was slow to develop last season and only blossomed after his call up.
WHat does he need ? - Someone he respects to explain to him the level of intensity that is required in this league - because right now I'm not sure he 'gets it'. This is common for new NHL players, isn't it ?
Neither Fisher nor Vermette is suitable as 2nd line center for this team - unless we are planning another early exit from the playoffs. We need someone who can score goals and develop chemistry with Alfie - otherwise we might as well trade him, because right now he is an ineffective playoff performer - even though anyone can see he is killing himself trying.

Both Vermette and Fisher are fantastic players for this team - but 2nd line scorer is NOT their role. Vermette believes otherwise but until he proves he can perform consistently (I'm a doubter) he is a good young player who chips in. To be 2nd line scorer on the Magnificent Ottawa Sens playing with Alfie and Scheffer means scoring 30 goals and 40 Assists AT A MINIMUM - and playing awesome defence . Otherwise you will be generating friction with guys like Vermette who will believe (rightly) you are not up to the job. I mean really, you are playing with Alfie and can't get 30 ? Get to the back of the bus.

Options

1. Kai starts showing he has what it takes - heart and desire. If he can't show it before 20 games he need to go to the minors to develop. This is a contending team that cannot baby anyone in that role. He'll break out at some point, I believe.

2. Denis Hamel - don't laugh - he looks like a freight train with the
puck at times. He even scored an empty netter :-) something other sens seem to struggle with at times! Don't let 'boob' Garrioch undercut this guy for you. Brucie thought Bochenski couldn't play - a guy who scored a hat trick as an NHL rookie and was traded for crap like Arnason - i personally believe this will come back to haunt that senile dolt, Muckler.
I believe with 20 games Hamel would like like a cheap version of Primeau...I would like to see us try him anyway.

3. Bite the bullet and make a trade. Juggle the cap any way you have to do what you should have done in the first place Muckler - your job! Remember Muckler promising to toughen this team up ?
Go out and aquire someone who can play with Alfie - never mind how. Find a way.

Oh, and put Schubert on defense, where he belongs. Fisher on third line makes us 'elite of the elite' in my view. And he seems to have found natural linemates.

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09-21-2006, 01:34 PM
  #41
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Here is my 2 cents:

He got to play with Alfie for a full half game. A bit too early to tell if he can take advantage of it.

He played against Peca most of the game, a veteran defensive specialist. If Spezza and Heatley were playing I guarantee you Kaigorodov would not be facing Peca and would most likely have been more productive. Also he was 3 for 7 against Peca in draws....Peca was one of the better face-off men last year wining an excellent 55% of draws.

Kaigorodov got zero hits. Phillips had 1! Fisher had 1! Hennessey, Potulny, and Meszaros, Preissing and Vermette....also zero! I guess that means all these guys shied away from traffic too. Not saying he is a hitting juggernaut, but he's not the only one to go hitless yesterday.

I say give him a break and see what he does as he gets acclimatized to his new surroundings.

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Old
09-21-2006, 01:43 PM
  #42
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How many games in North America has he played in now, 1? It would have been sweet to see him go out there and dominate, but the chances of that arent likely, the guys gotta adjust. I still have high hopes for him.

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09-21-2006, 01:50 PM
  #43
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Give the guy a break here....

Kaigs had a bad game, yes... This was his first real test of North American Hockey, and like any other european comming over for the first time, needs a chance to adapt to the game. the RSL is a hell of a lot different from the NHL. Kaig will play with the sens this year, he just needs the pre-season to aclimatize to the game. He was obviously caught offgaurd by the speed and the ferocity of the game, and to be honest, he looked scared/nervous. But I did see moments where he looked very talented with the puck, he knows the game well, and although it was an overall bad game, he also needs to settle down.

Lets reserve our judgement until the last cuts, and decide there. Dont defame the guy because of one bad game.

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Old
09-21-2006, 01:51 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by mattlef View Post
Dont defame the guy because of one bad game.
We're struggling to find someone to defame with Pothier and Smolinski gone.

We may be jumping the gun a little bit, but it's just not the same without the goat.

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09-21-2006, 02:07 PM
  #45
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GOAT order:

-Corvo
-Kaigorodov
-Volchenkov
-Heatley
-Spezza
-Redden
-Emery
-Gerber

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Old
09-21-2006, 02:08 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Roy G Biv View Post
GOAT order:

-Corvo
-Kaigorodov
-Volchenkov
-Heatley
-Spezza
-Redden
-Emery
-Gerber
We almost need a goat thread to do the same thing as the parade thread.

Hrmm....

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Old
09-21-2006, 02:32 PM
  #47
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.
LOTR is real

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Old
09-22-2006, 11:35 AM
  #48
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Thats all good great and grand but Fisher doesnt see the ice very well. Like last night he is the best player on his line when he always has the puck. Playing with Alfie and his creativity Fisher will be far less effective. Kaigorodov is the opposite kindof player of fish. In todays nhl both kinds of players can be effective and both are usefull. Fisher is absolutely served best when he is the third line center he gives the sens one of the best third lines in the nhl. Without him the third line can turn into a liability.

Do you think then Fish would be better of as a winger on this team playing a power forward say an Erik Cole role on the big lines? I think he can

But I disagree with some of you guys. I think Fish' on ice vision and passing as a center is good enough even though he is a powerfull skater, and plays I will carry the puck end to end and skate through you type of power game. This year he also came to camp a little bigger. They said he is 6-1 215 now, putting on 10-15 lb from last year.

Personaly, if Eaves emerges as a top 2 line winger on this team this year and Kia takes over the 2nd line C spot (hopefully he gets a lot better a scamp goes on) I think you have to have a player like Fisher on your top 2 lines as a winger if not as a center. He can score and fly and the skilled guys i.e. Spezz and Alfie could use the space he creates and his power game not to mention his work in the corners.

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