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Habs' off-season moves (all trades, proposals & free agent talk here)

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05-07-2013, 12:08 PM
  #626
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I didn't say Moen would have 20 goals or 60 points, but his cap hit also isn't 4.5 or 5 mil per year...I was talking relatively speaking. People won't think twice at giving Moen away but will suggest signinga guy like Clowe to a huge contract being in a similar situation.


With a guy like Clowe, you can look at other physical players that have seen early declines in production. For a skill guy, being 31-34 is not a big deal if he takes care of himself and had a pretty healthy career. Clowe has been banged around a lot plus his skating was already poor.

With a guy like that coming off a down year, it's not just the cap hit(at 4.5-5mil) it's the term. UFA's usually want 4-5-6 year deals or more. If his decline continues, the big issue won't be in 13-14 it will be 15-16 and 16-17 when guys like Gallagher Galchenyuk Tinordi etc will need new contracts.
Bringing up all of those ridiculous assessments of Clowe's level of play, and bringing up Elias as a potential good UFA pickup...

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05-07-2013, 12:18 PM
  #627
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Bergevin will go shopping a bit this offseason.

Forwards

Boyd Gordon
Viktor Stalberg
Eric Nystrom

Defense

Robyn Regehr

Pacioretty Plekanec Gallagher
Bourque Eller Gionta
Stalberg Desharnais Galchenyuk
Moen Gordon Prust

White / Nystrom

Regehr Subban
Markov Emelin
Tinordi Gorges

Diaz
and how's he gonna pay for them exactly? all our regular players are in your lineup.

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Old
05-07-2013, 12:21 PM
  #628
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Montreal could never tank like EDM or PIT did but with the new management in town they have the patience to build for the long term success.

I am sure Habs would have some interest in those players u mentioned but they have alot of mileage and baggage with them so if was .50 on the dollar ...maybe
You will not get any of the young core that MB is building around
Pittsburgh also won the "Crosby lottery", which was 95% luck, plus the team was bankrupt twice because of their building. Not really things could could replicate even if you wanted.

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05-07-2013, 12:25 PM
  #629
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Bringing up all of those ridiculous assessments of Clowe's level of play, and bringing up Elias as a potential good UFA pickup...
San Jose traded Clowe and their team got better, that's not a good sign. To anybody that really follows hockey, they know Elias is one of the most underrated NHLers.

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05-07-2013, 12:26 PM
  #630
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Originally Posted by HABbiest View Post
Spoken exactly like a person who has never seen Clowe play.
I saw him in Jr.A, in the Q and in the NHL.

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05-07-2013, 12:26 PM
  #631
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
San Jose traded Clowe and their team got better, that's not a good sign. To anybody that really follows hockey, they know Elias is one of the most underrated NHLers.
Yeah right... Keep telling yourself Clowe is a glorified Moen... I'd rather keep my own opinion.

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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I saw him in Jr.A, in the Q and in the NHL.
Wow! And you still have no clue about his level of play?

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05-07-2013, 12:28 PM
  #632
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
San Jose traded Clowe and their team got better, that's not a good sign. To anybody that really follows hockey, they know Elias is one of the most underrated NHLers.
Very good hockey player but not a very good fit for our team at the moment IMO. Clowe would fill a need for us but he will be expensive.

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Old
05-07-2013, 12:30 PM
  #633
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Shake your head all you want, it's true.
Im not a fan of clowe for the price he will ask but clowe is a very good fighter ...moen oi nowhere close in this department

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05-07-2013, 12:37 PM
  #634
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
San Jose traded Clowe and their team got better, that's not a good sign. To anybody that really follows hockey, they know Elias is one of the most underrated NHLers.
Elias is just exactly what this team needs. Another soft forward whose production will drop after the repeated poundings he would take without anyone stepping up to protect him.

You do understand the expression "team needs". San Jose has big bodies. They did not "need" Clowe.

Montreal "needs" big bodies and Clowe would be perfect on a line with one of our smaller forwards.

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05-07-2013, 12:43 PM
  #635
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The only way to get better this off-season is via trade i suspect. Clarkson would be nice, but way too$$$.

All i know is guys are way too similar. Weber, Kaberle, & maybe Diaz- gone.
Ryder meh. Wouldnt offer more than 3 mil per.

One of Desharnais or Gio has to go IMO.

Moen & Armstrong bye bye.

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05-07-2013, 12:43 PM
  #636
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
San Jose traded Clowe and their team got better, that's not a good sign. To anybody that really follows hockey, they know Elias is one of the most underrated NHLers.
Elias was good no doubt, but he is 37 on the decline and doesn't fill any need whatsoever. For a person who claims to have seen Clowe play so much I'm surprised you are even comparing him to Moen, let alone thinking he isn't worth the extra 2-3 million more than him.

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05-07-2013, 12:44 PM
  #637
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Yeah right... Keep telling yourself Clowe is a glorified Moen... I'd rather keep my own opinion.



Wow! And you still have no clue about his level of play?
Higgsbozon, he's not blindly bashing Clowe. He's raising concerns over his cost and production over the next 6 years. Moen and Clowe are in fact similar players, offensively capable grinders who can fight. Obviously Clowe is better in all respects to Moen but he also has many of the same weaknesses in terms of breakdown in physical play and endurance.

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05-07-2013, 12:45 PM
  #638
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Yeah right... Keep telling yourself Clowe is a glorified Moen... I'd rather keep my own opinion.



Wow! And you still have no clue about his level of play?
When have I called him a glorified Moen? His(Clowe) production for what he will cost is horrible.The only reason I brought up Moen is everybody wants to run him out of town like San Jose fans and Clowe.

Obviously you haven't watched him this year if you see him as some kind of saviour.


Last edited by Monctonscout: 05-07-2013 at 12:57 PM.
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Old
05-07-2013, 12:47 PM
  #639
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San Jose did their own cost/benefit analysis on Clowe. They would have liked to keep him and sign him. On their terms. But also recognizing his diminished contribution in a poor season. Clowe's contract expectations were more grandiose. So they essentially replaced him with Torres, and got bonus futures in the bargain. We can make our own cost/benefit analysis if/when the time comes. It's worth asking Clowe's agent what he's looking for. It sounds like it will be too much. But you ask anyway just to be sure. And also consider what alternatives are out there. I don't see any big debate in it. If you could get Clowe on our terms, obviously he would be a good addition for our team. But the odds of getting him on our terms are miniscule/maybe non-existent IMHO.

But also, those basing their evaluation of Clowe just on this past season are probably overlooking part of the analysis too.

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05-07-2013, 12:49 PM
  #640
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
San Jose did their own cost/benefit analysis on Clowe. They would have liked to keep him and sign him. On their terms. But also recognizing his diminished contribution in a poor season. Clowe's contract expectations were more grandiose. So they essentially replaced him with Torres, and got bonus futures in the bargain. We can make our own cost/benefit analysis if/when the time comes. It's worth asking Clowe's agent what he's looking for. It sounds like it will be too much. But you ask anyway just to be sure. And also consider what alternatives are out there. I don't see any big debate in it. If you could get Clowe on our terms, obviously he would be a good addition for our team. But the odds of getting him on our terms are miniscule/maybe non-existent IMHO.

But also, those basing their evaluation of Clowe just on this past season are probably overlooking part of the analysis too.
Would have loved to grab him (Torres). Apparently Bergy was in on him.

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Old
05-07-2013, 12:56 PM
  #641
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Elias is just exactly what this team needs. Another soft forward whose production will drop after the repeated poundings he would take without anyone stepping up to protect him.

You do understand the expression "team needs". San Jose has big bodies. They did not "need" Clowe.

Montreal "needs" big bodies and Clowe would be perfect on a line with one of our smaller forwards.
You obviously have no clue what "soft" means.

So sign Elias and sign somebody to protect him.

By your definition San Jose's "big bodies" are also soft and useless. Unless you consider Thornton Marleau Couture and Burns differently than Elias.

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Old
05-07-2013, 12:59 PM
  #642
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Originally Posted by HABbiest View Post
Elias was good no doubt, but he is 37 on the decline and doesn't fill any need whatsoever. For a person who claims to have seen Clowe play so much I'm surprised you are even comparing him to Moen, let alone thinking he isn't worth the extra 2-3 million more than him.
I didn't COMAPRE Clowe to Moen, I said their SITUATIONS were similar.

Fans here want to give Moen away but are willing to pay a huge cap hit for another(older, physical type player) coming off a down year.

Even if Clowe is an upgrade on Moen, Clowe won't sign here for 2-3 years and 1.8 mil/year.

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Old
05-07-2013, 01:01 PM
  #643
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Would have loved to grab him (Torres). Apparently Bergy was in on him.
And I think it would be a solid idea to look at him, or even say Matt Cooke, on the UFA market too. The cost is probably ridiculous on Clowe or Clarkson, if they're even on the market when the time comes, and the term they get will add to the risk factor. But I could see a guy like Cooke or Torres commanding far less in cost and term. Maybe 2-3 year deals at half the cap hit. It still probably ends up being a bit of a premium, as with Prust, just because it's unrestricted free agency. And they aren't exactly the most savoury characters reputation-wise. But they've been through some wars. And probably will play at a level that is at least comparable to the "downside" of a Clowe or Clarkson.

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05-07-2013, 01:01 PM
  #644
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Non-imposing Physical players or softies
Ryder
Plekanec
Pacioretty (2013 PO, injured Ed.)
Diaz
Markov
Desharnais
Gionta
Kaberle
Weber

Not quite soft but not imposing:
Galchenyuk
Eller
Gallagher
Drewiske
Beaulieu
Bouillon

Almost imposing, physical players:
Emelin (After whistle, he's got a broken face Ed.)
Subban
Gorges
Bourque
Armstrong
Moen
White

Imposing players:
Prust
Tinordi (still too young)
Emelin (Big hits Ed.)


Imposing players that change the way a team plays against us:
...
...
...

I think we're missing too many players in the bottom two sections, a few too many in the top one. I'd like a true top-6 player with a little more grit, not glorified third liners like Clarkson and Clowe.

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05-07-2013, 01:10 PM
  #645
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Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
The only way to get better this off-season is via trade i suspect. Clarkson would be nice, but way too$$$.

All i know is guys are way too similar. Weber, Kaberle, & maybe Diaz- gone.
Ryder meh. Wouldnt offer more than 3 mil per.

One of Desharnais or Gio has to go IMO.

Moen & Armstrong bye bye.
So who replaces all those players?

Kaberle hasn't played so it's a non issue.

Weber is basically #7, Diaz #4, so 2 d-men to replace. I don't see the point of moving Diaz unless the return is exceptional. He is a nice piece on any team, smart 2 way game, can play both PP and PK and play 18-22 minutes depending on need/role and his cap hit is great. You'd have to spend at least 4 mil to adequately replace Diaz with a UFA or some pretty key assets(1st or top prospect) to replace him by trade.

One of DD and Gio, it sounds good on the surface but you have to bring in somebody better. If you replace one of those guys with Dumont or Blunden you significantly hurt the team. If you have to add a top 9 guy for Ryder AND DD or Gionta on a pretty bare UFa market you're asking for trouble. No way you get Ryder at 3 mil/year, not even close.

Armstrong I'm indifferent, at times he is an asset other times he isn't. Moen I think if you move him then you have to turn around and pay as much if not more to replace him with a similar player. If you replace him with a goon then you put more stress on your top guys on defensive/PK assignments. As much as Moen isn't at the same level he was last year, his play or cap hit isn't costing us games.

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05-07-2013, 01:15 PM
  #646
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
San Jose traded Clowe and their team got better, that's not a good sign. To anybody that really follows hockey, they know Elias is one of the most underrated NHLers.
San Jose is playing better hockey this season due to having a certain Asst. Coach signed in the off-season to help their defensive game and get the team in playoff mode. It appears Larry has done his job well,but Clowe leaving didn't create their success.
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Would have loved to grab him (Torres). Apparently Bergy was in on him.
I'm sure that Bergevin will be very interested in signing Clowe this summer as long as the price is right. He would be ideal in helping Tinordi's transition to the NHL also.

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05-07-2013, 01:15 PM
  #647
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Non-imposing Physical players or softies
Ryder
Plekanec
Pacioretty (2013 PO, injured Ed.)
Diaz
Markov
Desharnais
Gionta
Kaberle
Weber

Not quite soft but not imposing:
Galchenyuk
Eller
Gallagher
Drewiske
Beaulieu
Bouillon

Almost imposing, physical players:
Emelin (After whistle, he's got a broken face Ed.)
Subban
Gorges
Bourque
Armstrong
Moen
White

Imposing players:
Prust
Tinordi (still too young)
Emelin (Big hits Ed.)


Imposing players that change the way a team plays against us:
...
...
...

I think we're missing too many players in the bottom two sections, a few too many in the top one. I'd like a true top-6 player with a little more grit, not glorified third liners like Clarkson and Clowe.
Players in your last list include Chara, Lucic and that's it. Maybe Shea Weber.

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Old
05-07-2013, 01:22 PM
  #648
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I didn't COMAPRE Clowe to Moen, I said their SITUATIONS were similar.

Fans here want to give Moen away but are willing to pay a huge cap hit for another(older, physical type player) coming off a down year.

Even if Clowe is an upgrade on Moen, Clowe won't sign here for 2-3 years and 1.8 mil/year.
Of course he won't because he is worth double that, I'm not saying I would go out a sign Clowe 5-6 years at 6 million but he is worth quite a bit more than Moen. They are two different players, Clowe is suppose to be a 50 point power forward and Moen is a fringe 4th line grinder.

Its really tough to tell with Clowe because he has slowed down this past year but from the games I saw from him on San Jose this year he was incredibly snakebitten and had many scoring chances every game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draft View Post
...
...

I think we're missing too many players in the bottom two sections, a few too many in the top one. I'd like a true top-6 player with a little more grit, not glorified third liners like Clarkson and Clowe.
How many of those types of players are available? Clarkson and Clowe are the best available options when it comes to adding size and toughness along with skill.

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05-07-2013, 01:32 PM
  #649
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Originally Posted by Ezpz View Post
Players in your last list include Chara, Lucic and that's it. Maybe Shea Weber.
I was thinking big goons fit in that last. Not the type of guys I want but it seems as if there may be a need. I'd rather we have a couple of goons fight instead of half of our team.

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05-07-2013, 01:42 PM
  #650
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Originally Posted by HABbiest View Post
How many of those types of players are available? Clarkson and Clowe are the best available options when it comes to adding size and toughness along with skill.
I'd love it if we could build through the draft, not sure if most of us have the patience for that. Not a player capable of playing an enforcer role in the top-6, just a player that won't get pushed around and brings some sort of physical element. We've got too many guys that need to be protected, I think we need to replace a couple. As in, instead of Plekanec have M.Koivu-type (these aren't proposals), instead of Desharnais have Antropov, instead of Ryder have Betty White. Just some sort of improvement in their ability to physically match up against a team.

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