HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

If we are awful this year....

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-22-2006, 01:30 PM
  #26
Edge
Registered User
 
Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sin City
Country: United States
Posts: 13,196
vCash: 500
Personally I still think the key is Jagr.

Henke is very very important.

But you take Jagr out of the lineup and it takes so much offense out. Not as much as last year obviously, but still a HUGE chunk. You have two potential 30 goal scorers in Shanahan and Prucha but so much of their room is given by not facing the guys Jagr draws to him.

Losing Henke would be very painful but an intact offense can outscore teams. Without the offense, I don't see them scoring enough goals to overcome what is a good but not air tight defense.

Losing either would be harsh, I just think Jagr is a bit more.

Edge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2006, 01:33 PM
  #27
True Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 15,012
vCash: 500
The way I see it, the keys from last year will be the same keys to this year

1. Jagr
2. Henke
3. The PK

With the addittion of Shanny, the hopefull continued maturation of Prucha and Cullen, Jagr may not be relied upon as much, but he will still need to be one of the top players in the league. Henke has to continue his growth and the PK will need to be stellar again (though the collapse down the stretch & in the playoffs of the PK is worrisome).

And off course, the work ethic needs to be there. This team still does not have enough pure talent to get by on that alone. They have to outwork other teams.
In the context of the above 3 keys, if one is not going, the other two will have to be perfect.

True Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2006, 01:49 PM
  #28
Edge
Registered User
 
Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sin City
Country: United States
Posts: 13,196
vCash: 500
And hopefully that's where the improvement on the bottom lines comes from.

If the Jagr line gets shut down, it still gives the Rangers a second and third line who can pop in their points and who will also have to pay attention.

The play of bottom lines last year was great, but teams knew they didn't have to worry too much about preventing offense from them. They knew they weren't likely to score against them, but they also knew they weren't likely to get beaten by them either.

If the third line can get 25 goals, 50 points from Cullen, 20 some odd goals from Hall and maybe 15 from Ward (or more from Hall and Ward) it'll help a lot. Heck even if Dawes plays on the line and nets 15-20 goals that would really help.

Edge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2006, 02:22 PM
  #29
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,456
vCash: 500
Edge...

I wouldn't be surprised if Cullen ends up on the second line, with Betts on the third, and whoever, including Dubinsky on the fourth (I think Renney's statement regarding Dubinsky and the fourth line points to him at least thinking that that's an option). Hall's the real wildcard. Him breaking out with a 20 goal season would be huge if most else remains equal (most else won't be exactly equal, but you'll add a goal here, lose a goal there, and perhaps that becomes equal), then from an offensive standpoint, the Rangers should be better off and teams should worry a bit more even when the bottom two lines come out.

Fletch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2006, 02:25 PM
  #30
SML
Registered User
 
SML's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 3,743
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
Sadly, the time to trade Jagr was last year. Don't get me wrong, I love the season he had for us...but now I just don't see it happening.
Gotta chime in here... I think you are wrong. Why trade Jagr last season? Why trade him this season? Because of his unique contract situation, Jagr is not only one of the best players in the league, but is without question one of the best players, dollar value wise, in the league as well. He's under contract for this season, plus 2 more with the last one being an option year of which I'm not sure who has the option. Where are you going to get a guy who is a top 5 talent and came an inch away from winning the scoring title for under 5 million? In the pre-cap NHL, Jagr was a bargain. In the post-cap NHL, he is an absolute steal. The only thing that makes him possible to trade at this time is his production slipping, which would also lower his value. You simply have to keep this guy. If we were paying his whole check, I understand, but we are getting a bona fide superstar for 50 cents on the dollar. Why would you get rid of that? The time to move the guy is either at the deadline this year if we're out of it, or the following year at the same time if we're out of it, for a king's ransom to a true contender. The earlier he gets dealt, the more, IMO, we should be able to get back for him. But I'd ride this train to the last stop if I were the Rangers.

SML is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2006, 02:45 PM
  #31
Plato
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Plato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New York
Country: Greece
Posts: 9,174
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by dakose View Post
If we stink, why on earth would we ship out the veterans? We are rebuilding, no? Doesn't that by definition mean we need veterans to bring along the youth? If we just trade away our veterans, we would be back at square one. This doesn't make any sense at all.
agreed

Plato is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2006, 02:53 PM
  #32
Edge
Registered User
 
Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sin City
Country: United States
Posts: 13,196
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if Cullen ends up on the second line, with Betts on the third, and whoever, including Dubinsky on the fourth (I think Renney's statement regarding Dubinsky and the fourth line points to him at least thinking that that's an option). Hall's the real wildcard. Him breaking out with a 20 goal season would be huge if most else remains equal (most else won't be exactly equal, but you'll add a goal here, lose a goal there, and perhaps that becomes equal), then from an offensive standpoint, the Rangers should be better off and teams should worry a bit more even when the bottom two lines come out.
Personally I hope it doesn't go down that way.

Cullen seems to be at his best when he can anchor that third unit and work his game. I just don't think he's an everyday second line center.

Betts I'd prefer not to see on the third line. Fourth line sure, but I just don't think he brings enough to a third line outside of defense to really get the extra minutes.

I could even live with Dubinsky anchoring the third line, but Betts is a strictly defense center with health issues in my book. I am just not comfortable with him as a third line center. I think he's a solid 4th line center when he's going up against other 4th line centers, I think as a third line center he's average at best.

Edge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2006, 03:10 PM
  #33
BobMarleyNYR
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Alphabet
Country: Iraq
Posts: 2,919
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to BobMarleyNYR
Us sucking is a scenario that COULD always play out, although I don't
think it will.

This speculation is way too hypothetical in nature to name what specific
guys we'd want to be rid of. Generally the guys that are moved are thought
to be a big source of any given team's struggling. It's prejudice of me to
suggest it, but I could envision a guy like Adam Hall having some real
difficulty.

BobMarleyNYR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2006, 08:37 PM
  #34
Son of Steinbrenner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Tromelin
Posts: 9,481
vCash: 500
Hasn't the formula for winning always included

A motivated star player

Good Goaltending

Good Special teams?

Did somebody find out water is wet today too?

I'm just playing but you guys get my point.

This team (if healthy) is the best team in the East. I don't feel like that's even an out on a limb statement at this point. We are talented and we have the right mix...

Son of Steinbrenner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2006, 10:22 PM
  #35
CM Lundqvist
Best In The World
 
CM Lundqvist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 8,581
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
How about this:

Let's cross that bridge if we come to it.
Well said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bathgate View Post
Hope all you posters are correct. However, let's look at the pessimistic view. Jagr and Nylander do not duplicate last year. Jagr for health reasons and Nylander for age reasons. Henke,though I strongly doubt it, has a mediocre year. The average defense is well... average or less than average. The work ethic is not as good as last year.I'm hopeful but still cynical. HENKE WILL BE THE KEY TO OUR YEAR.
1 year will not kill Nylander. He is not 40, unlike Messier was. Henke will only get better. He is a truly stellar goaltender. The work ethic is fine, if anything we have more leadership. The kids will come up and will help inject life and ethic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
And hopefully that's where the improvement on the bottom lines comes from.

If the Jagr line gets shut down, it still gives the Rangers a second and third line who can pop in their points and who will also have to pay attention.

The play of bottom lines last year was great, but teams knew they didn't have to worry too much about preventing offense from them. They knew they weren't likely to score against them, but they also knew they weren't likely to get beaten by them either.

If the third line can get 25 goals, 50 points from Cullen, 20 some odd goals from Hall and maybe 15 from Ward (or more from Hall and Ward) it'll help a lot. Heck even if Dawes plays on the line and nets 15-20 goals that would really help.
You're bang on once again, Edge. Shanahan, Cullen, and Hall give us more scoring, and a presence in the slot and along the boards. We played too much of a perimiter game last year. Now, we have more versatility and weapons.

The bottom lines were two energy lines, we didn't have a true checking line. Now I can honestly say that if a guy like Immonen or Dubinsky makes it, they could complete a true checking line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
Hasn't the formula for winning always included

A motivated star player

Good Goaltending

Good Special teams?

Did somebody find out water is wet today too?

I'm just playing but you guys get my point.

This team (if healthy) is the best team in the East. I don't feel like that's even an out on a limb statement at this point. We are talented and we have the right mix...
Bang on.

I really like this team's chances as well, especially with the east being a little more wide open, being that Carolina, Philly, and Ottawa downgraded. Buffalo scares me though, and Jersey is Jersey, can never count them out. Everyone else, I don't worry about. Boston can be scary if Savard isn't a flash in the pan, and last year's playoff troubles for Big Z don't carry over into this season. He just looked like he was almost lost against those speedy Buffalo forwards.

CM Lundqvist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2006, 10:40 PM
  #36
I Am Chariot
One shift at a time
 
I Am Chariot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 14,523
vCash: 500
This is a contract year for Nylander, he won the Gold and the World Championship this past summer....next year will be his last big contract...

It doesn't matter , close this thread now because this team if going to be AWESOME this year. They are going to kick *** all over the NHL. You can feel it in air. Get ready for a wonderful ride people. This will be a year you will never forget!!!!


__________________
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man
I Am Chariot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2006, 11:10 PM
  #37
Brooklyn Ranger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn, of course
Posts: 7,764
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycleandshoot View Post
This is a contract year for Nylander, he won the Gold and the World Championship this past summer....next year will be his last big contract...

It doesn't matter , close this thread now because this team if going to be AWESOME this year. They are going to kick *** all over the NHL. You can feel it in air. Get ready for a wonderful ride people. This will be a year you will never forget!!!!

Nylander's contract contains an option year--either the Rangers or Nylander can pick it up.

Brooklyn Ranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2006, 11:17 PM
  #38
Edge
Registered User
 
Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sin City
Country: United States
Posts: 13,196
vCash: 500
I like the team going into this year more than I've liked any Ranger team in a decade.

I'm sure there will be tweaks needed along the way (even the best teams in hockey history have to make them) but it's not really on the radar right now.

There are a few areas I'd like to see improved and we'll see as the year goes on whether those areas:

A. Pose a problem

B. Have an attainable solution.

Edge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2006, 06:57 AM
  #39
jas
Unsatisfied
 
jas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 13,048
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I like the team going into this year more than I've liked any Ranger team in a decade.

I'm sure there will be tweaks needed along the way (even the best teams in hockey history have to make them) but it's not really on the radar right now.

There are a few areas I'd like to see improved and we'll see as the year goes on whether those areas:

A. Pose a problem

B. Have an attainable solution.

Which areas concern you the most? The defense right now appears a little shaky due to the injury factor, IMO. But, I love the depth at forward and, regardless of who makes the squad out of camp, players like Korpikoski and Moore should provide viable options in case of injuries. Also, due this depth, the Rangers should have ample asstes to make necessary deals.

jas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2006, 07:24 AM
  #40
Finest
Puck Fittsburg
 
Finest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 5,587
vCash: 500
My main concern and it seems to be the concern of a few others is the defence we have. I think they will work, and I think that its a improvment over last years D but I dont know if we have that one little peice that would push us from first or second round exit to SCF's. That is yet to be seen seeing as there arent any definite line pairings as of yet, but i'm judging by who we have on paper. There is still a good amount of pre-season yet to be played, plus the 3 days in Lake George, so this team should start getting used to each other, and if they all can gell, then good things can happen, look at last season. I'm looking on the brighter side of things and getting excited for tonights game in PR, sadly though I'll be in PR NEXT saturday

Finest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2006, 08:46 AM
  #41
bubba5
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,012
vCash: 500
I might be wrong here, but I think if the Rangers traded Jagr, the team that would get him would have to take his entire contract onto their salary cap, so if that is the case we could not give him away (not that we would want to, eapecially because only 4 million of his salary is hitting our cap)

bubba5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2006, 11:33 AM
  #42
Edge
Registered User
 
Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sin City
Country: United States
Posts: 13,196
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
Which areas concern you the most? The defense right now appears a little shaky due to the injury factor, IMO. But, I love the depth at forward and, regardless of who makes the squad out of camp, players like Korpikoski and Moore should provide viable options in case of injuries. Also, due this depth, the Rangers should have ample asstes to make necessary deals.

Well maybe not a concern, but something I am unsure about might be a better phrase.

The defense to to me is a little iffy. Not bad, but room for improvement. I have a feeling it might need a deadline deal to shore itself up.

The depth at forward is nice, but a little bit of an unknown. There are a few if's in the equation there (Hall, Betts health, whether certain guys can chip in more offense step it up a level, etc.) We'll have to see over the course of the season how that works itself out. I like the potential of the bottom two lines, but it isn't a sure thing.

I emphasis that just because I have a few things I am iffy on, doesn't mean I think it will fail. It just means that I think it's a bit of an unknown that could go either way.

Edge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2006, 12:26 PM
  #43
Finest
Puck Fittsburg
 
Finest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 5,587
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Well maybe not a concern, but something I am unsure about might be a better phrase.

The defense to to me is a little iffy. Not bad, but room for improvement. I have a feeling it might need a deadline deal to shore itself up.
The depth at forward is nice, but a little bit of an unknown. There are a few if's in the equation there (Hall, Betts health, whether certain guys can chip in more offense step it up a level, etc.) We'll have to see over the course of the season how that works itself out. I like the potential of the bottom two lines, but it isn't a sure thing.

I emphasis that just because I have a few things I am iffy on, doesn't mean I think it will fail. It just means that I think it's a bit of an unknown that could go either way.
I agree I think the Rangers may need to make a move much like Carolina did near the deadline to aquire Weight. The way it looks now to me is that they are going to need "spark plug" guy who can dominate when he is on the ice. I dont know who that is at this point but it seems like the Rangers are lacking "that guy". Otherwise the team should be solid, I think we should be able to sit back and enjoy a realativly fun regular season.

Finest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2006, 01:07 PM
  #44
BobMarleyNYR
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Alphabet
Country: Iraq
Posts: 2,919
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to BobMarleyNYR
Lacking that guy? Jagr and Shanahan. And I expect Rachunek to have a big season, really being a huge source of offensive production.

BobMarleyNYR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2006, 01:17 PM
  #45
Edge
Registered User
 
Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sin City
Country: United States
Posts: 13,196
vCash: 500
And it very well could.

It's another one of those unknowns.

Guys like Hall, Rachunek, Hollweg, etc. fall into the "if" category and even under the best of circumstances it's probably pretty rare for all of those "if" guys to achieve what is hoped for.

So some will probably fill needs and erase concerns, some probably will not. Obviously don't think the team is going to need to be torn apart, but the safe money is on needing to add maybe a piece or two.

Edge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2006, 01:17 PM
  #46
Plato
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Plato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New York
Country: Greece
Posts: 9,174
vCash: 50
Jagr cannot be traded because we have no1 in our system who can at somepoint be a leader on offense

Plato is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2006, 01:42 PM
  #47
BobMarleyNYR
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Alphabet
Country: Iraq
Posts: 2,919
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to BobMarleyNYR
The real problem we have is, fast-forwarding two years, who will be our top-gun on offense? Jagr will be 36 and winding down. Shanahan will likely either be retired or finishing his career on a checking line. Dawes, Prucha, Dubinsky, Cliche, Immonen, Korpikoski - all nice prospects but no 90-100-point forwards. We really need to have a an awesome '07 draft and even consider making deals in the next two years. Montoya's stock should skyrocket and we have excellent (severely underrated) depth on D.

Right now I think Russell might one day explode into a first-line perennial all-star.

BobMarleyNYR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2006, 01:45 PM
  #48
Finest
Puck Fittsburg
 
Finest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 5,587
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobMarleyNYR View Post
Lacking that guy? Jagr and Shanahan. And I expect Rachunek to have a big season, really being a huge source of offensive production.
Yup "that defense guy".

Finest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-28-2006, 03:03 PM
  #49
GarretJoseph*
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 7,604
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight25 View Post
Well first off, let me say, you guys WONT suck. You've got a lot of good young players, a lot of them finally got experience last year, and they should be ready. You've got Jagr and Shanny, as well as one of the best goalies in the league.

Now, say you DO suck, he's what I would do. Remember, I'm a Flyers fan so I don't know the Rangers as well as the Flyers.

Weekes would get shipped out for whatever player position needed. He's good trade bait because he was a solid starter and is a great backup, and I'm sure there are teams in the league that could use him. Straka would definitely get traded, as well as Kasper. Nylander, Cullen, and Jagr would stay, unless you can trade Jagr for a LOT of young players with potential. If that comes up, you have to take that, because if you're at a point where you're sucking, you need to look into rebuilding with youth.

I'm not saying we are going to suck, I'm not even saying we will suck. I think we'll do just fine. I just wanted to see what ideas people would give if we were to be put into that situation.

Thats all.

GarretJoseph* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-29-2006, 06:36 AM
  #50
Chimp
Registered User
 
Chimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: In my food garden.
Country: Sweden
Posts: 10,476
vCash: 500
What I would like to see was an upgrade in defense. You've been talking about a defensive steal if the opportunity comes and yes, that sounds about it. Some really good stay at home D-man who can insure that Henke doesn't have to stand on his head as many times as last season to insure the victories.

Chimp is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:43 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.