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New Arena deal agreed to by city and Katz group:mod warning #616

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05-07-2013, 04:53 PM
  #726
Beerfish
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One entity that benefits the most by far from an arena being built = Katz and the Oilers.

One entity that seems to be doing the absolute least in the process = Katz and the Oilers.

City politicians running around like an orchestra of scorched cats, provincial gov't stating what they have stated all along.

All sorts of pro downtown business special interest groups talking it up (but really offering nothing at all to the process.)

This is such a ridiculously one sided deal when looking at what the starting stance was on this issue from the two major parties it is head shaking.

If the city had any balls at all, any as in even a shred of guts they'd flat out tell Katz he has to find a way to make up that last short fall of funds. Otherwise he is out of the process 100%. The city will build the arena on their own and he can apply to lease it at the terms the city dictates.

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05-07-2013, 05:00 PM
  #727
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The city is completely indecisive about the financials of an arena project that includes a guaranteed tenant and some money from Katz. Is the city honestly going to be any better off by taking away what "little" you say Katz is contributing, and still giving him a sweetheart lease deal?

City Council can't make up this last 55 million as it is. With Katz out of the picture, they will be worse off.

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05-07-2013, 05:13 PM
  #728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
One entity that benefits the most by far from an arena being built = Katz and the Oilers.

One entity that seems to be doing the absolute least in the process = Katz and the Oilers.

City politicians running around like an orchestra of scorched cats, provincial gov't stating what they have stated all along.

All sorts of pro downtown business special interest groups talking it up (but really offering nothing at all to the process.)

This is such a ridiculously one sided deal when looking at what the starting stance was on this issue from the two major parties it is head shaking.

If the city had any balls at all, any as in even a shred of guts they'd flat out tell Katz he has to find a way to make up that last short fall of funds. Otherwise he is out of the process 100%. The city will build the arena on their own and he can apply to lease it at the terms the city dictates.
So throw away all the money already spent on the design and development of the current facility.

Re-enter development hell, and likely drag the process out another 5 - 10 years(if it even happens)

Have exactly the same problems the first time(province won't contribute, no one is ok with raising taxes), this time without any kind of private investment

Dictate lease terms on this new building, which will ultimately end up being similar due to the fact that 28 other NHL teams get all revenues from their buildings, if not state/provincial subsidies on top of it.

Sounds like a reasonable, well thought out, logical plan!

"You aren't contributing enough to the project, so we're just going to pay for all of it just to spite you!"


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05-07-2013, 05:17 PM
  #729
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Was it the downtown business association thing? That's all that I heard about and it wasnt really a rally it was just a group of interested people who stand to make a ton of money if the deals go through standing up and saying they think the arena should get built. There hasnt been any grass roots lobbying for the thing from regular joe public.
Exactly, what a joke. O Byrne, the leader of the coalition, is a Vice president with Stantec, a firm that stands to earn millions from this arena district. Can anybody say vested interests?

The coalition by the way is Edmonton Economic Development Corp (which may as well be called downtown corp because its all they ever do) Chamber of Commerce(same thing, primarily concerned with downtown) Start up Edmonton (more downtown) and for good measure Downtown Edmonton Community league.

Make no mistake this is not a rally, as has been oft misinformed by local media in the last few days, this is stuffed business shirts all with button down vested interests speaking out with a self appointed moral authority about what Edmonton needs.

But where, as Paula Simons comments, does this self appointed "moral authority" come from to speak for all Edmontonians. Quite specifically they are all talking about themselvs and for themselves.

Yet heres the magic question. The one thing, other than glib commentary that Edmonton's mover and shakers could be contributing is dollars. Wheres the dollars.

How ironic that the business highbrows in this city poopooing how ridiculous it is to let this deal stagnate on a missing 55M are not offering ANYTHING as a financial incentive to spur this arena along.

The saying is talk is cheap, as the Downtown Vibrancy Coalition no doubt is.

The new sportsfield motto should be "Let the public build it and pay for all of it and the stuffed business suits will then come."

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05-07-2013, 05:59 PM
  #730
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It is the one thing I never understood about this. Alot of businesses want it and support it, but nobody outside of katz came up with private funding.

BTW, I dont think Stantec will ever contribute outside of getting the contract to be the primary project manager or similar contract. Once project is done, nothing in it for them.

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05-07-2013, 06:34 PM
  #731
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05-07-2013, 06:59 PM
  #732
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Exactly, what a joke. O Byrne, the leader of the coalition, is a Vice president with Stantec, a firm that stands to earn millions from this arena district. Can anybody say vested interests?

The coalition by the way is Edmonton Economic Development Corp (which may as well be called downtown corp because its all they ever do) Chamber of Commerce(same thing, primarily concerned with downtown) Start up Edmonton (more downtown) and for good measure Downtown Edmonton Community league.

Make no mistake this is not a rally, as has been oft misinformed by local media in the last few days, this is stuffed business shirts all with button down vested interests speaking out with a self appointed moral authority about what Edmonton needs.

But where, as Paula Simons comments, does this self appointed "moral authority" come from to speak for all Edmontonians. Quite specifically they are all talking about themselvs and for themselves.

Yet heres the magic question. The one thing, other than glib commentary that Edmonton's mover and shakers could be contributing is dollars. Wheres the dollars.

How ironic that the business highbrows in this city poopooing how ridiculous it is to let this deal stagnate on a missing 55M are not offering ANYTHING as a financial incentive to spur this arena along.

The saying is talk is cheap, as the Downtown Vibrancy Coalition no doubt is.

The new sportsfield motto should be "Let the public build it and pay for all of it and the stuffed business suits will then come."
Wait, so now it's a bad thing for business owners to want the area their business is in to be in a nice area with lots of traffic in the evenings? I guess they should just feel lucky to be near the lovely Greyhound station.

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05-07-2013, 07:02 PM
  #733
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Originally Posted by fysloc View Post
It is the one thing I never understood about this. Alot of businesses want it and support it, but nobody outside of katz came up with private funding.

BTW, I dont think Stantec will ever contribute outside of getting the contract to be the primary project manager or similar contract. Once project is done, nothing in it for them.
Typical ... all these big wig oil companies making money hand over fist and none of them are willing to invest in Edmonton as a city.

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05-07-2013, 08:06 PM
  #734
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Wait, so now it's a bad thing for business owners to want the area their business is in to be in a nice area with lots of traffic in the evenings? I guess they should just feel lucky to be near the lovely Greyhound station.
In any other city with a bright economy the business leaders actually ****ing invest and build something. At best some of these ****ers are waiting for every possible incentive paid for expressly by the public before they commit to one coin out of their own pocket in what is one of the hottest markets in NA.

These guys want to make a killing but want zero risk on anything. Let the public foot all the bill and take all the risk then perhaps these business tightwads might actually invest something in the city they allegedly do business in.

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05-07-2013, 08:11 PM
  #735
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
In any other city with a bright economy the business leaders actually ****ing invest and build something. At best some of these ****ers are waiting for every possible incentive paid for expressly by the public before they commit to one coin out of their own pocket in what is one of the hottest markets in NA.

These guys want to make a killing but want zero risk on anything. Let the public foot all the bill and take all the risk then perhaps these business tightwads might actually invest something in the city they allegedly do business in.
I'm sorry, but I find that hard to believe. Can you please give me some sources on neighboring business owners chipping in money to have arenas built?

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05-07-2013, 08:35 PM
  #736
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I'm sorry, but I find that hard to believe. Can you please give me some sources on neighboring business owners chipping in money to have arenas built?
I meant in other cities big business actually invest in the city, build head offices, build office towers, condo towers etc or invest in the city in some significant way. We always seem to have the small fish here looking for the free public paid buffet.

If anything is backwards in this city its how shy business owners are making much of any investment in it.

Whatever happened to free enterprise? Seems like the taxpayer is paying for that too now.

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05-07-2013, 08:38 PM
  #737
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what does the public stand to lose

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05-07-2013, 08:49 PM
  #738
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Anyone else wanna just go to the site and start digging?
Pull a field of dreams?

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05-07-2013, 09:04 PM
  #739
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05-07-2013, 11:00 PM
  #740
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Maybe I was hearing things but it sure seemed like the crowd at the Oil Kings game booed when they started talking about the downtown arena on the jumbotron. Sigh. Edmonton.

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05-07-2013, 11:04 PM
  #741
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Maybe I was hearing things but it sure seemed like the crowd at the Oil Kings game booed when they started talking about the downtown arena on the jumbotron. Sigh. Edmonton.
They have. I've been to an Oil Kings game before where they did the It too, it was in the playoffs last year.

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05-07-2013, 11:09 PM
  #742
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They have. I've been to an Oil Kings game before where they did the It too, it was in the playoffs last year.
I love this city... it's home... but man does it ever suck.

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05-07-2013, 11:12 PM
  #743
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What is it with this city and its citizens that makes them hate billionaires?

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05-07-2013, 11:16 PM
  #744
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What is it with this city and its citizens that makes them hate billionaires?
We just hate billionaires who are out to screw the city over.

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05-07-2013, 11:18 PM
  #745
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What is it with this city and its citizens that makes them hate billionaires?
Hurtin conservative Albertans

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05-08-2013, 12:26 AM
  #746
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We just hate billionaires who are out to screw the city over.
Damn are there any positives with this arena development?

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05-08-2013, 02:13 AM
  #747
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Damn are there any positives with this arena development?
Not a single one, according to them.

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05-08-2013, 02:25 AM
  #748
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Hopefully this arena project never goes through. I would really hate to go downtown and have fun before or after the game. I would hate hanging out in the area where the game is actually occurring instead of showing up 10 mins before and then getting the f outta there 10 minutes after it's done. It would also really suck if there was stuff to do downtown after 5 pm. I know, I know, there's the Churchill parking lot.

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05-08-2013, 02:31 AM
  #749
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Hopefully this arena project never goes through. I would really hate to go downtown and have fun before or after the game. I would hate hanging out in the area where the game is actually occurring instead of showing up 10 mins before and then getting the f outta there 10 minutes after it's done. It would also really suck if there was stuff to do downtown after 5 pm. I know, I know, there's the Churchill parking lot.
In June the Sun doesn't go down until after 10, go to the new beach, with a fence to keep you out of the water.

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05-08-2013, 03:59 AM
  #750
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Provincial govt that is running a billion dollar deficit?
Wow, I don't keep up with Alberta's economy/politics much but I must admit that this surprised me. I would've assumed that with all of the Oil revenue that Alberta would at least break even. Are there talks of a recession setting in or talks of massive tax increases/deep cuts to the budget?

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