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Would the Habs benefit from a Heavyweight enforcer? Part 3

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Old
05-07-2013, 03:32 PM
  #451
Sorinth
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I dont understand why you keep bringing up irrelevant points.

It is irrelevant if enforcers are on the decline when we are playing a team that is physically abusing our skill players and have an enforcer or two in their lineup. And then there is Pittsburgh, Boston and Toronto who have enforcers in their lineups and rosters.
You claimed the NHL is proving that you need enforcers when in fact the opposite is happening, the NHL is moving towards less and less enforcers. How is that irrelevant?

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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
You came close on your reply regarding the Leafs/Bruins series but you cannot admit the reason why there is no "bad blood" between those two teams. For if you did, it would destroy your own argument.
There's no bad blood because Grabovski didn't get a concussion. If your theory was valid, Ference wouldn't have thrown the elbow in the first place. Besides my main point was that it was a 2 goal game for the majority of the 3rd. That's why they didn't goon it up, they were still trying to win the hockey game. I guess you can't admit that since it would destroy your argument.

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05-07-2013, 05:19 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
You missed my point.

And made my point.

Neil or Kassian take liberties, you have to have a player to fight them for that. If they take liberties again, they have to fight again. Still want to take liberties, fight them again and our enforcer and Neil or Kassian are out of the game and hockey is played.

Since everyone is tap dancing around the Leafs/Bruins, the reason they are not fighting and gooning it up is because both teams know that gooning will not work to intimidate either team.

Both teams know that if you go running the skill players on either side, there are big enforcers who will step up and make you answer for it.

Equal strength. Fighting or gooning wont help so they are reduced to deciding who is better by playing hockey.

Ottawa is simply exploiting Montreal's biggest weakness and gooning does make a difference and helps the Sens.

But that point is lost on so many people...............
So with all those goons and all that toughness, 5'9" Ference goes and elbows one of Toronto's small players in the head. I thought your point was that teams would be scared to target small/young/skilled players?

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05-07-2013, 06:02 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
So with all those goons and all that toughness, 5'9" Ference goes and elbows one of Toronto's small players in the head. I thought your point was that teams would be scared to target small/young/skilled players?
Nice strawman.

As a favor to me, please think for yourself and do not try to think (for me) what my point is. You missed.

I am disappointed that you did not throw out all of the concussions that the Bruins players have had over the years.

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05-07-2013, 09:18 PM
  #454
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Give victory in Game 4 to Chris Neil.

He elbowed, slashed, cross checked and punched his way to victory.

Neil did whatever he wanted and no one could or would step in to stop it. No refs and more disturbing, no Canadiens.

Congrats Chris Neil. You are one game away from ending the Habs season and a large portion of the fanbase still will not understand why you were so effective and will still be on the "Nobody to stop You" bandwagon.

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05-07-2013, 09:19 PM
  #455
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Give victory in Game 4 to Chris Neil.

He elbowed, slashed, cross checked and punched his way to victory.

Neil did whatever he wanted and no one could or would step in to stop it. No refs and more disturbing, no Canadiens.

Congrats Chris Neil. You are one game away from ending the Habs season and a large portion of the fanbase still will not understand why you were so effective and will still be on the "Nobody to stop You" bandwagon.
Are you kidding?

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05-07-2013, 09:26 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
You claimed the NHL is proving that you need enforcers when in fact the opposite is happening, the NHL is moving towards less and less enforcers. How is that irrelevant?
And the never ending myth continues. Is that why both Florida teams, Carolina, Toronto, Philadelphia, Ottawa, Washington, Vancouver, Buffalo, Minnesota and Islanders all got tougher last summer or this season? You're out for lunch with a dummy comment like that one. We need to get bigger and tougher, period. Enough with the " but he has to play as good as top 6" BS, we need 1 that calms things down and can handle his own against anybody in our conference.

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05-07-2013, 09:32 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Are you kidding?
I hope so. Anyways, this thread is about players like Matt Kassian, not Chris Neil. So his argument is invalid, again. Kassian has been useless like a goon while Neil was good. We need a Chris Neil on the fourth line, not a Matt Kassian.

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05-07-2013, 09:35 PM
  #458
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While Chris Neil was hardly the reason Ottawa won today, the man is a gamer. I hate the **** but he does get in your head and do whatever it takes to win.

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05-07-2013, 09:38 PM
  #459
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Are you kidding?
No.

But whats the point in trying to explain.

Everything is great in Habs land.

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05-07-2013, 09:41 PM
  #460
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I hope so. Anyways, this thread is about players like Matt Kassian, not Chris Neil. So his argument is invalid, again. Kassian has been useless like a goon while Neil was good. We need a Chris Neil on the fourth line, not a Matt Kassian.
Do you think that a team needs someone to stop Neil from gooning it up with his elbows/slashes/cross checks etc?

Or is it fine to just let him do what he did?

And by the way, where will you find a Chris Neil for the 4th line? Playstation?

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05-07-2013, 10:12 PM
  #461
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Do you think that a team needs someone to stop Neil from gooning it up with his elbows/slashes/cross checks etc?

Or is it fine to just let him do what he did?

And by the way, where will you find a Chris Neil for the 4th line? Playstation?
Because you think a goon could stop him ? He plays like that even when there is a goon in the other team because if he doesn't, he looses his job. I think Neil is more afraid of losing a NHL job than he is of Colton Orr (or any goon). We must play like we did in the first two games. And I don't have a playstation. But we can find a Chris Neil the same way we signed Brandon Prust.

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05-07-2013, 10:38 PM
  #462
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
No.

But whats the point in trying to explain.

Everything is great in Habs land.
Guess we should all bow to Mr. SouthernHab...his opinion is the only one that is correct(in his mind)

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05-07-2013, 10:58 PM
  #463
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The pacificts never understand when the Habs get steamrolled (and it's happened this season alone from the Leafs, Bruins and Senators) why this keeps happening and talk about "well it's different in the playoffs."

It's no different and the Habs are (yet again) exposed for being soft as puppy fecal matter.

No size, No Heart and No second round for the Habs.

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05-07-2013, 11:02 PM
  #464
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
No.

But whats the point in trying to explain.

Everything is great in Habs land.
you seriously need to step back, take a deep breath, and read what you write before hitting the "submit reply" button.

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05-07-2013, 11:04 PM
  #465
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you seriously need to step back, take a deep breath, and read what you write before hitting the "submit reply" button.
All is well or all is not well in Montreal?

We were physically manhandled by the Sens in this series with Neil running our skill players..........

And we could do nothing at all to stop Neil.

Did you happen to count how many elbows he threw tonight? Cross checks? He cross checked any and every Habs player that he skated by tonight.

And you are fine with that I assume?

If you are, not much else to say to you.

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05-07-2013, 11:31 PM
  #466
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
All is well or all is not well in Montreal?

We were physically manhandled by the Sens in this series with Neil running our skill players..........

And we could do nothing at all to stop Neil.

Did you happen to count how many elbows he threw tonight? Cross checks? He cross checked any and every Habs player that he skated by tonight.

And you are fine with that I assume?

If you are, not much else to say to you.
re-edited my post since you edited yours.

neil runs everybody whether a goon, prust or satan himself is on the ice and no i am not fine with that.

neil refused fight prust when his team was down the other day. why would he fight ANYBODY if his team is down 2, or up by 1? on the other hand, neil MIGHT fight somebody if his team is comfortably up which is EXACTLY what we saw last game. fighting is not neil's game, it's a part of his game.

this isn't the 80's anymore, there such a thing called the instigator. he doesn't want to fight you, HE WON'T FIGHT YOU. if you start a fight and the other doesn't want to fight, iirc, it's 5, a 2 and game misconduct, which is exactly what happen to subban last game. you might remember this game we won against boston because chara decided to start fighting while our guy didn't.

you're living in a fact-free fantasy world

a goon won't stop neil and anybody that's ever watched him play will tell you that.

and stop moving the goal posts everytime somebody destroys whatever point you were trying to make. this thread is NOT about neil. it's about the useless waste of roster spots called heavyweight enforcers.

****'s sake... im going to lunch

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05-07-2013, 11:44 PM
  #467
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Neil did not refuse to fight Prust the other night.

Everyone in the NHL knows that Prust's shoulder(s) is shot and will probably need surgery in the offseason.

Neil knew that Prust was simply trying to get him to drop the gloves and then skate away. Hell, Prust was one of the few Habs left at the end of Game 3 because he cannot fight now.

To your point about instigating. This is the NHL and it has become a crap shoot.

Neil instigated Moen, Kassian instigated Armstrong, Smith instigated Boullion and Cowan instigated White and technically could have been the third man in.

So we should have seen a 2-5-10 for Neil, Kassian, Smith and Cowan.

Instead, the Habs who were jumped were also removed from the game and Ottawa ended up with a PP.

Neil is an enforcer. Just like Thornton is an enforcer. Just because they have some hockey skills does not detract from that reality.

And we have no one to stop either of those players from doing what they want to any Habs player that they want.........especially when the refs really did not care what happened.

Edit.........Enjoy your lunch.

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05-07-2013, 11:53 PM
  #468
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
All is well or all is not well in Montreal?

We were physically manhandled by the Sens in this series with Neil running our skill players..........

And we could do nothing at all to stop Neil.

Did you happen to count how many elbows he threw tonight? Cross checks? He cross checked any and every Habs player that he skated by tonight.

And you are fine with that I assume?

If you are, not much else to say to you.
Southern Hab I'm quite sure there are some people here that haven't actually watched an entire game of hockey. The rest of us know the Habs need to get bigger and tougher, so don't waste time trying to explain things to the others. Just try to enjoy the games, Serge Savard has made his stance, he says the Habs need to get bigger. This upcoming Entry Draft and the Unrestricted Free Agent period that follows this summer should prove or disprove whether or not team policy will change. BPA can mean a lot of different intangibles make the player the Best Available. Wait and see is my advice.

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05-08-2013, 12:45 AM
  #469
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Neil did not refuse to fight Prust the other night.

Everyone in the NHL knows that Prust's shoulder(s) is shot and will probably need surgery in the offseason.

Neil knew that Prust was simply trying to get him to drop the gloves and then skate away. Hell, Prust was one of the few Habs left at the end of Game 3 because he cannot fight now.

To your point about instigating. This is the NHL and it has become a crap shoot.

Neil instigated Moen, Kassian instigated Armstrong, Smith instigated Boullion and Cowan instigated White and technically could have been the third man in.

So we should have seen a 2-5-10 for Neil, Kassian, Smith and Cowan.

Instead, the Habs who were jumped were also removed from the game and Ottawa ended up with a PP.

Neil is an enforcer. Just like Thornton is an enforcer. Just because they have some hockey skills does not detract from that reality.

And we have no one to stop either of those players from doing what they want to any Habs player that they want.........especially when the refs really did not care what happened.

Edit.........Enjoy your lunch.
actually, i read that situation exactly the opposite way: neil was the one that was trying to get prust to drop the glove. and i'll take your word for it but didn't prust end up fighting in that brawl at the end anyways?

as for the instigator: it's not really a crapshoot. during the linebrawl, they just ejected everybody regardless. but if individually you start wailing on somebody when they have their gloves on, you'll get kicked out. it's fairly simple

@ the second bolded: actually, it does. if you want to get really semantic about it, thornton and neil are in one category, while the kassians and staubitz of the world are in another. these two categories are very, very different from each other and it's a very important distinction. one can play hockey, skate, be responsible defensively, agitate, play the PK if needed, the other can't do much other than fighting and sometimes skating around hitting stuff but most aren't even skilled skaters to begin with.

and the habs were not outmatched physically today, just like they were not game 1 and 2 but were in game 3. so while size is important, a willingness to throw your body around is more important than just size for size's sakes. hal gill was the biggest teddy bear around

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Originally Posted by S Bah View Post
Southern Hab I'm quite sure there are some people here that haven't actually watched an entire game of hockey. The rest of us know the Habs need to get bigger and tougher, so don't waste time trying to explain things to the others. Just try to enjoy the games, Serge Savard has made his stance, he says the Habs need to get bigger. This upcoming Entry Draft and the Unrestricted Free Agent period that follows this summer should prove or disprove whether or not team policy will change. BPA can mean a lot of different intangibles make the player the Best Available. Wait and see is my advice.
who said we don't need to get bigger and tougher? find him and quote him for me. im getting fed up of seeing this oneliner that has no basis on reality being thrown around.

and serge savard started our mediocre years after the last cup by drafting a bunch of skill-less 'big guys' (plus drafting bad local guys) which houle continued.

wait and see is the best advice. nobody can turn around a roster and prospect pool in one season. he has acknowledged it's a problem and said he intended to remedy it. let's see what he does

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05-08-2013, 03:32 AM
  #470
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Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
The pacificts never understand when the Habs get steamrolled (and it's happened this season alone from the Leafs, Bruins and Senators) why this keeps happening and talk about "well it's different in the playoffs."

It's no different and the Habs are (yet again) exposed for being soft as puppy fecal matter.

No size, No Heart and No second round for the Habs.
A lot of us understood that this team would have a hard time getting past the first round if we played a division rival.

The playoffs are not like the regular season, you can't accumulate wins against the (relatively) soft southeast and atlantic.

We play in the toughest division in the eastern confernece. That is reason alone to move on from the Desharnais era.

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05-08-2013, 04:27 AM
  #471
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Prust was completly destroyed physically on the winning goal.

Why was he destroyed physically? Cause of all the beatings he took during the season, he sacrificed everything for this club.

Why did his body take such a beating? Cause he was all alone doing this.

The loss is all on Bergevin.

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05-08-2013, 06:36 AM
  #472
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Chris Neil = The Biggest Loser. Shawn Thornton is waiting for you in the next round.

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05-08-2013, 07:00 AM
  #473
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Chris Neil = The Biggest Loser. Shawn Thornton is waiting for you in the next round.
Chris Neil is winning his games, which by definition makes him a winner.

Habs fans who want their team avenged by Shawn Thornton and the Bruins? Losers.

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05-08-2013, 08:18 AM
  #474
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Originally Posted by ccgg View Post
I hope so. Anyways, this thread is about players like Matt Kassian, not Chris Neil. So his argument is invalid, again. Kassian has been useless like a goon while Neil was good. We need a Chris Neil on the fourth line, not a Matt Kassian.
Where exactly does it say that? Many of us have been preaching that the Habs need a heavyweight who can play 10 minutes a game.

The problem is that some people mistakenly think that enforcer = goons who can't skate.

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05-08-2013, 08:20 AM
  #475
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Originally Posted by Wandering Maroon View Post
Chris Neil = The Biggest Loser. Shawn Thornton is waiting for you in the next round.
Hypocrit... You would accept Niel with open arms if we traded for him.

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