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Habs' off-season moves (all trades, proposals & free agent talk here)

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Old
05-08-2013, 08:45 AM
  #701
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I agree with most of what you're saying...but getting rid of all our small players and replacing them with big bangers/scrappers is not the be all and end all.

Obviously getting Eller and Emelin back will help. I would like a big stay at home d-man and to leave Tinordi AHL(at least to start the year), the only problem you don't want to commit 4-5 years on what's on the UFA market. Murray would be ok 2-3 years ago or Regehr from 4-5 yeras ago. Not sure if Fistric can handle any more than #5-6 minutes.

You can replace Armstrong with Torres or somebody similar plus get a heavyweight enforcer. Guys like Prust Bourque White Emelin Moen would play "meaner" with one against about 1/2 the teams. Usually those guys sit in the playoffs.
Not saying to get rid of all our smaller guys but Gallagher for example is the smallest and the one that plays the biggest. Goes constantly in front of the opposing net, takes beatings and keeps going back while guys like Ryder, Pacioretty skate miles away from the crease.

At center Eller is great but you need to make a decision IMO between DD and Plekanec, DD is way too small, get's pushed off the puck, doesn't win many battles come playoff time. Plekanec a great play maker and penalty killer but still plays soft and it's too much for that position

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05-08-2013, 08:49 AM
  #702
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If it's wishlist time I just hope never to see Diaz, Weber or Kaberle on our blueline again.

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Old
05-08-2013, 08:59 AM
  #703
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If it's wishlist time I just hope never to see Diaz, Weber or Kaberle on our blueline again.
Diaz? Seriously?

The guy has a great cap hit and is an excellent puck mover plus solid defensively. The whole "suicide pass" thing is a load of BS.

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05-08-2013, 09:01 AM
  #704
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Not saying to get rid of all our smaller guys but Gallagher for example is the smallest and the one that plays the biggest. Goes constantly in front of the opposing net, takes beatings and keeps going back while guys like Ryder, Pacioretty skate miles away from the crease.

At center Eller is great but you need to make a decision IMO between DD and Plekanec, DD is way too small, get's pushed off the puck, doesn't win many battles come playoff time. Plekanec a great play maker and penalty killer but still plays soft and it's too much for that position
I don't know where you get Plekanec playing soft. He plays bigger than his size and more often than not wins his battles against bigger players. With the minutes he plays he can't be a guy that runs around looking for hits.

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05-08-2013, 09:10 AM
  #705
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Game-breaking forward is what this team needs. No killer instinct. You score that 3rd goal and the Sens don't come back.
It's Hard for that game breaking forward to produce that goal if he is sitting on the bench all of the 3rd period. And BTW he did everything to get that goal on that beutifull pass right after his goal ...

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05-08-2013, 09:16 AM
  #706
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This lineup is about to be eliminated in the first round of the playoffs.

Insanity is doing the exact same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
Okay, so I explained that I left off the 3 UFAs and tried to assemble the best line-up I could from what was left to see what things looked like. I did not say I was happy with this line-up. I just also believe MB will not make wholesale changes. After looking at things I thought we need a guy like Clarkson, not a guy like Ryder in there. While I am not as critical of guys like Gio and DD as many others here are, I would prefer that we didn't have them on the team and instead have above-averaged size physical players with skill, or maybe one of those and a top level, big skill guy who is consistent. I just don't think MB is looking at trying to move DD or Gio. He might at some point after the start of the next season, just don't see it before then.

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Old
05-08-2013, 09:21 AM
  #707
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Diaz, Weber, Kaberle are out for sure.

Add Armstrong to that. Try to trade Moen

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Old
05-08-2013, 09:29 AM
  #708
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Kristo for Matteau

Both nearly NHL ready, both have had "character issues", one of our strengths (skilled fwds) for one of our weaknesses (grit/pwf). They both project to be 2nd liners, just in different roles. I don't think dangling Gionta would get the job done. I've got a feeling that Kristo will be gone next year unless he makes the big team out of training camp. He's awesome but we've got too many players like him and too many obvious weaknesses. Seems like a hockey trade to me.

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05-08-2013, 09:30 AM
  #709
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
If it's wishlist time I just hope never to see Diaz, Weber or Kaberle on our blueline again.
I think Diaz can have a role on a hockey team and that is the role of a PP specialist. However, Markov and Subban soak up most of the PP time at the moment. That leaves Diaz in the role of a penalty killer and a guy who can play tough minutes... and neither of these roles suit him.

So, while Diaz is a smart player and works hard, his skillset doesn't match with our needs at the moment. If we could move him for an asset that fills a need I would do it and it has nothing to do with his pass to Eller.

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Old
05-08-2013, 09:31 AM
  #710
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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
If Diaz still holds the value he did at the start of the year, I think I'd be okay with replacing him with Beaulieu next year. He really hasn't done well since his concussion and I think Beaulieu would bring much the same impact on our team in regards to PP and offensive ability. There's potential for us to protect his minutes similar to what we've done with Galcheyuk at forward. This all depends on what type of return Diaz would have. There was a discussion on the Rumours/Proposals page as well as someone just brought it up again about Coburn.

Diaz + Ellis + MTL 3rd

for

Coburn

This is from The Hockey News

Assets: Moves very well for a 6-5, 220-pound defender and owns both shutdown and all-around qualities. Is capable of logging big minutes and playing on either side of the ice. Can rush up ice with the puck.
Flaws: Doesn't use his huge frame enough to his advantage, which limits his effectiveness. Is somewhat timid in the offensive zone, too. Could stand to play more consistently in all facets of the game.
Career Potential: Big-minute defenseman with excellent size and skating ability.

With Markov declining, I believe Coburn could fill in as our potential #2 (#1 on second pairing) defenceman. He hasn't had a good year this year but I'm sure he can turn it around. We need this type of player and we need someone who can play those minutes. Considering Emelin is likely out for the start of the season:

Gorges-Subban
Coburn-Markov
Tinordi-Bouillon
Beaulieu (Protected minutes)

I have a problem with going all in on players like Clowe and Clarkson in this years Free Agency. Their deals could potentially severely handicap the team for the next 6 years. Considering we are a rebuilding team and looking to add to the core that will compete in ~2 years as their production plummets, I am not interested in adding them as apparent saviours in our top-6. Look at what happened with Cole, big contract after 30 for a powerforward who doesn't even have to worry about the effects of fighting... total garbage 2 years in. What I can get behind is adding another player to our roster who brings toughness and grit.

Cal Clutterbuck would be a huge benefit to the amount of toughness on our team. Very similar to Prust and perhaps similar to a forward version of Emelin. He's a type of player that teams look out for when he hits, he's got an okay offensive game and can be relied upon defensively. According to these boards, he'll be asking for too much money and could be available. Any idea what he'd cost?

Two moves, team toughness has a big increase. Unfortunately the team's offence takes a hit.

Pacioretty-Plekanec-Gionta
Galchenyuk-Eller-Bourque
Prust-Desharnais-Clutterbuck
Moen-Dumont-XXXX

Gorges-Subban
Coburn-Markov
Tinordi-Bouillon
Beaulieu (Emelin IR)
I do not think we need major tweaking on the back end. Our game is about speed, this is the identity of the team and it when we are playing our style there are very few teams that can cope with our speed. I think we need to keep that in mind. Diaz is part of that speed game, he is a smart passer and a RH D to top it all. We should keep him and hopefully he will build on the success he had this year. I see him as the ideal partner for Tinnordi. In my opinion we need to start relying less on Markov and prepare his departure. Perhaps playing Beaulieu in his spot once a while ... Markov could give us a very nice return when come trade deadline next year.

I do not see any issue with the following pairing next year ...
Emelin, Subban
Tinnordi, Diaz
Markov, Georges

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Old
05-08-2013, 09:32 AM
  #711
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Not saying to get rid of all our smaller guys but Gallagher for example is the smallest and the one that plays the biggest. Goes constantly in front of the opposing net, takes beatings and keeps going back while guys like Ryder, Pacioretty skate miles away from the crease.

At center Eller is great but you need to make a decision IMO between DD and Plekanec, DD is way too small, get's pushed off the puck, doesn't win many battles come playoff time. Plekanec a great play maker and penalty killer but still plays soft and it's too much for that position
There's really not much of a choice. On top of that, they're completely different players.

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Old
05-08-2013, 09:33 AM
  #712
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Originally Posted by ClasslessGuy View Post
Diaz, Weber, Kaberle are out for sure.

Add Armstrong to that. Try to trade Moen
How is Diaz out for sure?

If I had a wishlist to be traded, Desharnais would be #1 on the list, followed by Gorges.

I don't see Gionta being traded and I'd give Moen another year before giving up on him.

I'd let Armstrong walk, and wait on Halpern to see if we can find an upgrade, but I'd re-sign him otherwise. As for Ryder, I really don't know. If he asks for too much and for too long then it's a no brainer, you let him walk. If he can accept a 2 years deal for anything between 3 and 4 millions then I'd re-sign him, we need depth at wings.

We have many questions marks but let's not forget that we finished 2nd in the east, and it's too risky to completely change the face of the team.

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Old
05-08-2013, 09:33 AM
  #713
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Like I said in the other thread, as long as we have guys like Diaz, Gorges and Gionta playing major roles on this team, the kind of breakdowns that happened yesterday will keep happening. These are passive players. We can't keep playing passive with the kind of team we have. We need size and muscle if we want to be able to sit back and neutralize the other team's chances.

That being said, that series is constructive in the sense it gives our direction a clear idea of what's needed to get more success from now on. That, and Galchenyuk is proving he's ready to become a main actor in the success of this team. He's so good it's not even funny. Probably our best player in this series.

For next season, the plan:

- Trade Gionta, let Ryder leave
- Trade Gorges
- Let Armstrong, Halpern leave
- Give Raffi Torres a 1.5M/per contract to play on the 4th line
- Give Ryane Clowe a 4.25M/per contract to play on our top-6
- Give Douglas Murray a short-term, 3M/per contract
- Buyout Kaberle

Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Gallagher (Pacioretty with his usual 65 points, Galchenyuk will step up to be a 55+ points player next year, Gallagher 50 points too)
Bourque - Plekanec - Clowe (Bourque and Pleks are good for 50 points+, Clowe for 40+)
Prust - Eller - Desharnais (Prust 20 points, Eller 35 points, Desharnais 40 points)
Moen - White - Torres (Torres is a good grinder capable of playing good hockey)

Markov - Emelin
Tinordi - Subban
Bouillon - Murray
Diaz

Price
Budaj

On the PP, you put:

Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Gallagher
Markov - Subban

Bourque - Plekanec - Clowe/Eller
Diaz/Emelin - Subban

You have some major grit with:
Clowe
Prust
Moen
White
Torres
Murray
Emelin
Tinordi

You have some pure skills with:
Galchenyuk
Eller
Plekanec
Desharnais

You have some scorers in:
Bourque
Pacioretty
Gallagher

You have a D with good skills (Markov, Subban), good grit (Bouillon, Emelin, Murray, Tinordi), good size (Emelin, Murray, Tinordi), and in the case where a game like last Sunday happens, you're not afraid of anybody.

I mean, how great would it have been?

Kassian vs Clowe
Neil vs Prust
Smith vs Moen
Cowen vs Murray
Phillips vs Tinordi

And then, you got guys like White, Torres, Emelin, Bouillon and Bourque still running around and hitting everything in sight without anybody doing anything about that.

Boston wants to play it tough?
Lucic vs Clowe
Thornton vs Murray
Campbell vs Prust
McQuaid vs Moen
Ference vs Tinordi

then, you got some guys like Bouillon, White and Torres to take care of the rest.

And most importantly, all of those guys can play solid hockey.


Last edited by HiggsBozon: 05-08-2013 at 09:41 AM.
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Old
05-08-2013, 09:41 AM
  #714
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Originally Posted by Habruti! View Post
I do not think we need major tweaking on the back end. Our game is about speed, this is the identity of the team and it when we are playing our style there are very few teams that can cope with our speed. I think we need to keep that in mind. Diaz is part of that speed game, he is a smart passer and a RH D to top it all. We should keep him and hopefully he will build on the success he had this year. I see him as the ideal partner for Tinnordi. In my opinion we need to start relying less on Markov and prepare his departure. Perhaps playing Beaulieu in his spot once a while ... Markov could give us a very nice return when come trade deadline next year.

I do not see any issue with the following pairing next year ...
Emelin, Subban
Tinnordi, Diaz
Markov, Georges
I am also a big fan of Diaz, however, his production can be filled by Beaulieu, Markov's can't. Coburn is a very mobile skater for his size. Pretty good speed and offensive know-how. Who's our #2 when Markov leaves?

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05-08-2013, 09:41 AM
  #715
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Originally Posted by Captain Saku View Post
How is Diaz out for sure?

If I had a wishlist to be traded, Desharnais would be #1 on the list, followed by Gorges.

I don't see Gionta being traded and I'd give Moen another year before giving up on him.

I'd let Armstrong walk, and wait on Halpern to see if we can find an upgrade, but I'd re-sign him otherwise. As for Ryder, I really don't know. If he asks for too much and for too long then it's a no brainer, you let him walk. If he can accept a 2 years deal for anything between 3 and 4 millions then I'd re-sign him, we need depth at wings.

We have many questions marks but let's not forget that we finished 2nd in the east, and it's too risky to completely change the face of the team.
I really see no point in keeping Ryder around. He fit on Boston's playoff run because it was a team ready-made for a cup run. Our team is more about young guys growing together, building a chemistry, etc., I just don't see him fitting into that.

I've been defending Desharnais all year, but now its getting hard. He relies on Pacioretty playing well (and kind of vice versa). I knew that Gallagher going on that line last night would immediately makde DD better; he needs players that work hard to get into scoring position. I think DD is still pretty good, it's just more important for him to have perfect linemates than it is for Eller and Galchenyuk, who can play well with pretty much anyone.

I still think its worth trying Desharnais on the wing as a passing winger type. You put him with two big boys like Galchenyuk and Pacioretty, and he could be extremely effective.

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05-08-2013, 09:54 AM
  #716
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We have to make a decision regarding DD and Gionta, in my opinion. Plekanec has nothing to do with it. He was our most consistent center this series (like every other) and shut down the Alfredsson line in the first two games.

I've seen a few positives:
-Gallagher has shown that he can elevate his game further in the playoffs.
-Galchenyuk isn't phased by the big stage.
-Tinordi will be a beast even though he showed some signs of youth this series. We just called him up from the AHL to replace Emelin.
-Bourque has emerged as a legitimate top 6 forward. We need him going forward.
-Halpern proved his worth. He should have been taking big draws over Plekanec last night in the third.
-We've dominated everything but the third period this series. We've won about 75% of the periods in this series. We've got to ask ourselves why we can't close games out. Experience? Endurance? Worn out by the third?

What we need is to stop building this team for regular season success. I don't care to come 2nd overall. I want playoff success and I understand there's a difference between being built for the regular season and playoffs.

This is what I think we have to do:

Keep-
Pacioretty
Plekanec
Bourque
Galchenyuk
Gallagher
Eller
Ryder
Prust
White
Halpern
Dumont

Subban
Markov
Emelin
Tinordi
Diaz

Hard to let go-
Gorges

Replace-
Desharnais
Gionta
Bouillon
Moen

We need-
Two top six forwards that are built for the playoffs. Clowe / Hartnell / Simmonds type players. Guys with size and skill. I'm sick of small players that take a beating and can't last by the third period because they're too worn out.
Another big defenseman who can clear the front of the net.
Experience. This will be good for the kids.

Who are top 6 players with size and skill who can bring experience to this group? Bill Guerin types who will go to the net in the playoffs and just calm the team down.


Last edited by Ginu: 05-08-2013 at 11:09 AM.
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Old
05-08-2013, 09:58 AM
  #717
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I'd be happy to never seen in a Habs jersey again:

Diaz, Kaberle, Weber, Armstrong, Bouillon, Desharnais, and Ryder

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Old
05-08-2013, 10:21 AM
  #718
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I'd be happy to never seen in a Habs jersey again:

Diaz, Kaberle, Weber, Armstrong, Bouillon, Desharnais, and Ryder
Bouillon is ok with the new guys. Problem is Therrien is using him too much right now. Next year he will be 6-7 at defence

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Old
05-08-2013, 10:24 AM
  #719
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Bouillon is ok with the new guys. Problem is Therrien is using him too much right now. Next year he will be 6-7 at defence
Until he has 2-3 good games in a row and Therrien goes back to 20 + minutes

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05-08-2013, 10:29 AM
  #720
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Bouillon is ok with the new guys. Problem is Therrien is using him too much right now. Next year he will be 6-7 at defence
Not with Therrien.

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05-08-2013, 10:30 AM
  #721
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Not too long ago the Diaz injury was used as an excuse for losses. Now he has to be traded to Zimbabwe. Not that I disagree, but it is funny.

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05-08-2013, 10:33 AM
  #722
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I don't know where you get Plekanec playing soft. He plays bigger than his size and more often than not wins his battles against bigger players. With the minutes he plays he can't be a guy that runs around looking for hits.
Plekanec IS soft. No matter how you look at it. Doesn't mean we have to deal him away, I personally would not, he's our #2 C and will be for quite some time. But if he is not soft, no player in this league is.

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05-08-2013, 10:37 AM
  #723
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DD/plekachu, ginta, moan, jorges, kaberle, armstrong out for sure

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05-08-2013, 10:40 AM
  #724
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-I'd trade Desharnais and Diaz to a team that needs a center, for a good Dman.
-I'd let Ryder walk, sign Clowe or a big power forward.
-I'd buy out Kaberle.
-Weber on waiver.
-Trade Moen for a 6th pick.
-Resign Halpern as the 13th forward
-Sign a UFA winger with size for the 4th line.
-Sign a 7th D with size.

Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Gallagher
Bourque - Plekanec - Gionta
Prust - Eller - Clowe
White - Dumont - UFA

Extra: Halpern

Subban - Dman aquired in DD/Diaz trade.
Markov - Emelin
Gorges - Tinordi/Bouillon

Extra : Bouillon/Tinordi

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05-08-2013, 10:55 AM
  #725
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IMO Diaz and Bouillon are worth keeping, but they need to get bumped down the depth chart. Diaz is a completely different player depending on his quality of competition. We need a legitimate top tough comp dman to bump everyone else down (easier said than done).

?-Subban
Gorges-Emelin
Markov-Diaz
Bouillon-?
Tinordi/Beaulieu/Nygren

We need more quality dmen. There aren't enough true NHL dmen kicking around the league to get rid of the ones we have, even if they look bad right now in a role they shouldn't be in.

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