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The Vanek Thread

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Old
05-07-2013, 10:53 AM
  #426
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Toronto doesn't need Vanek?

Would he not slot in better than Kulemin on the 2nd line?

No one is giving up a top line C.

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05-07-2013, 10:55 AM
  #427
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Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
Toronto doesn't need Vanek?

Would he not slot in better than Kulemin on the 2nd line?

No one is giving up a top line C.
No one's giving up a top centre so i guess we'll just trade our 2 or 3 most valuable assets for a guy we dont need in the slightest. Where do i sign!?

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05-07-2013, 10:57 AM
  #428
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Originally Posted by VoicexOfxReason View Post
No one's giving up a top centre so i guess we'll just trade our 2 or 3 most valuable assets for a guy we dont need in the slightest. Where do i sign!?
I'm arguing that Vanek is a need.

He rounds out out top 6 very nicely. He is a threat to score 40 every year and if we can have Kessel on one line, and Vanek on the other, it legitimately makes us contenders in the East.

Vanek seems to do well against the East's elites, particularly Boston.

JVR - Bozak - Kessel
Lupul - Kadri - Vanek
Frattin - Grabovski - Kulemin

Tell me how that doesn't further improve us.

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05-07-2013, 11:03 AM
  #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
Toronto doesn't need Vanek?

Would he not slot in better than Kulemin on the 2nd line?

No one is giving up a top line C.
In three games against the Bruins we've given up 10 goals... if we can't get a #1C then our assets need to be used to get Dion a suitable partner for the top pairing.

Dion - Someone
Gards - Gunnarson
Fraser - Franson

This is a much better use of our assets... especially considering Vanek is a UFA after next season.

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05-07-2013, 11:04 AM
  #430
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As far as D is concerned, help is on the way with Stu Percy who will translate his game nicely as a top 4 D-man. Also, there is Tony Lydman who can be a capable stop gap until your youngsters are ready.

Phaneuf - Gunnarson
Lydman - Gardiner
Franson - Fraser

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05-07-2013, 11:14 AM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
As far as D is concerned, help is on the way with Stu Percy who will translate his game nicely as a top 4 D-man. Also, there is Tony Lydman who can be a capable stop gap until your youngsters are ready.

Phaneuf - Gunnarson
Lydman - Gardiner
Franson - Fraser
No.

Percy is still years away and Tony Lydman just got KO'd from the playoffs with the third concussion of his career courtesy of Justin Abdelkader.

Gunnar is playing well... but he needs to be pushed down the depth chart and isn't good enough to be the #2D on a team that is hoping to go further in the playoffs next season.

This team has plenty of offense with more on the way as Gards and Kadri mature. We need to keep the pucks out of our net if we hope to get better and go farther in the playoffs next year.

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05-07-2013, 11:39 AM
  #432
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Originally Posted by veedubn1 View Post
In three games against the Bruins we've given up 10 goals... if we can't get a #1C then our assets need to be used to get Dion a suitable partner for the top pairing.

Dion - Someone
Gards - Gunnarson
Fraser - Franson

This is a much better use of our assets... especially considering Vanek is a UFA after next season.
In 4 games against Boston this year, Vanek scored 4 goals and 7 points, and his track record against them over his career is fantastic (49GP, 29 goals, 56 points). The only team he might love playing more is Tampa Bay (31GP, 23 goals, 36 points). Vanek could certainly help overcome that goal differential, just by scoring rather than stopping Boston from doing so.

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05-07-2013, 11:41 AM
  #433
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
In 4 games against Boston this year, Vanek scored 4 goals and 7 points, and his track record against them over his career is fantastic (49GP, 29 goals, 56 points). The only team he might love playing more is Tampa Bay (31GP, 23 goals, 36 points). Vanek could certainly help overcome that goal differential, just by scoring rather than stopping Boston from doing so.
What this man said.

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05-07-2013, 11:57 AM
  #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
In 4 games against Boston this year, Vanek scored 4 goals and 7 points, and his track record against them over his career is fantastic (49GP, 29 goals, 56 points). The only team he might love playing more is Tampa Bay (31GP, 23 goals, 36 points). Vanek could certainly help overcome that goal differential, just by scoring rather than stopping Boston from doing so.
So he plays extremely well against two of the 30 teams in the NHL.

That's fantastic reasoning for giving up the farm for a one year rental!!



I don't dislike the player, but he doesn't fill the glaring holes in our line-up. Look at Tampa for an example of a team that invested too much cap and assets in their offense while woefully neglecting their defense.

The salary cap world is all about asset management... and giving up the farm for a one year rental that doesn't solve our two biggest needs (our top 6 also needs to be more physical, yet ANOTHER problem Vanek doesn't solve) is poor asset management. Plain and simple.

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05-07-2013, 12:15 PM
  #435
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Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
With Buffalo heading for a rebuild of sorts, what would be something that would persuade them to move him to Toronto, a team on the rise who could be a player like Vanek short of becoming a contender.

His size in the top six and ability to score anytime on the ice will enable the Leafs to send out two scoring lines on a nightly basis. A player like him is who the Leafs need against teams who zero in on Kessel on a nightly basis.

Not available:

Nazem Kadri
JVR
Lupul
Kessel

Anything else is fair play.
With Buffalo and Toronto In the same division next season I seriously doubt that Buffalo would trade Vanek to Toronto unless it's for massive over payment on Torontos part. Same thing could be said about Detroit or any other team in that division.

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05-07-2013, 01:00 PM
  #436
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Gardiner and Reilly would need to be involved. I honestly don't care about trading players within the division if that's how to get the best return, but that's just me.

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05-07-2013, 02:09 PM
  #437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veedubn1 View Post
I don't dislike the player, but he doesn't fill the glaring holes in our line-up. Look at Tampa for an example of a team that invested too much cap and assets in their offense while woefully neglecting their defense.

The salary cap world is all about asset management... and giving up the farm for a one year rental that doesn't solve our two biggest needs (our top 6 also needs to be more physical, yet ANOTHER problem Vanek doesn't solve) is poor asset management. Plain and simple.
Agreed... kind of laughable really, that we'd consider giving 2 of our best assets away for a top-6 RW that won't even have the benefit of playing with a true top-6 center.

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05-07-2013, 02:23 PM
  #438
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Originally Posted by veedubn1 View Post
No.

Percy is still years away and Tony Lydman just got KO'd from the playoffs with the third concussion of his career courtesy of Justin Abdelkader.

Gunnar is playing well... but he needs to be pushed down the depth chart and isn't good enough to be the #2D on a team that is hoping to go further in the playoffs next season.

This team has plenty of offense with more on the way as Gards and Kadri mature. We need to keep the pucks out of our net if we hope to get better and go farther in the playoffs next year.
the answer to our D is Boyle

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05-07-2013, 02:33 PM
  #439
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
the answer to our D is Boyle
Why is a 36 year old defenseman with one more year on his deal the answer for a team that has an average age of 25?

Are we all of a sudden one piece away from being cup contenders?

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05-07-2013, 03:00 PM
  #440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veedubn1 View Post
Why is a 36 year old defenseman with one more year on his deal the answer for a team that has an average age of 25?

Are we all of a sudden one piece away from being cup contenders?
This is in reference to the Vanek to Toronto merged thread...tornoto wanting Boyle...

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05-07-2013, 05:27 PM
  #441
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Originally Posted by Djp View Post
This is in reference to the Vanek to Toronto merged thread...tornoto wanting Boyle...
I don't know if you're explaining to others what my post is about, or if you're trying to explain to me why some guy thinks Dan Boyle will solve the Leafs' woes?

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05-07-2013, 08:11 PM
  #442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
With Buffalo heading for a rebuild of sorts, what would be something that would persuade them to move him to Toronto, a team on the rise who could be a player like Vanek short of becoming a contender.

His size in the top six and ability to score anytime on the ice will enable the Leafs to send out two scoring lines on a nightly basis. A player like him is who the Leafs need against teams who zero in on Kessel on a nightly basis.

Not available:

Nazem Kadri
JVR
Lupul
Kessel

Anything else is fair play.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Reilly or Gardiner + 1st + lower level prospect or player
That's what I was thinking, as well. Heck, the lower level prospect can be D'Amigo just so he won't torch the Amerks anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Number1RedWingsFan52 View Post
With Buffalo and Toronto In the same division next season I seriously doubt that Buffalo would trade Vanek to Toronto unless it's for massive over payment on Torontos part. Same thing could be said about Detroit or any other team in that division.
No need to doubt: I can definitively say that Regier would not trade Vanek to Toronto and keep him in the division. When Darcy must trade one of the top players, he always looks to Western Conference teams (Hasek, Campbell, Pominville).

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05-07-2013, 10:43 PM
  #443
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As much as I would love an insurance policy on Myers, I have a hard time trading Vanek and not getting a top forward back, especially considering the lack of finishers we have outside of Vanek and .....LOL.....Stafford.

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05-07-2013, 11:09 PM
  #444
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Ottawa offers Noesen, Weircoch, 1st is 2013 and Blood for Vanek. I'm likely going to be hated on from Sens fans for offering Noesen. I know none of those are roster players but 2 great prospects and a tough nosed defenceman along with a first round pick. I want Vanek to be Latendresse's replacement since there is no way we resign him. Im willing to bet we add, but market value is pretty close is since this is suppose to be a deep draft and OTT has lots of prospects to crack their roster for the next two years.

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05-07-2013, 11:43 PM
  #445
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As much as I would love an insurance policy on Myers, I have a hard time trading Vanek and not getting a top forward back, especially considering the lack of finishers we have outside of Vanek and .....LOL.....Stafford.
This. We also already have a very young d-core. There are only so many rookie defenders you can have on your roster at the same time, even when you're rebuilding. I'd say a young winger with upside is a must in any package for Vanek.

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05-08-2013, 02:54 AM
  #446
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
This. We also already have a very young d-core. There are only so many rookie defenders you can have on your roster at the same time, even when you're rebuilding. I'd say a young winger with upside is a must in any package for Vanek.
How about Kassian? Yeah, I'm serious.

Kassian + 1st + B-prospect?

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05-08-2013, 04:25 AM
  #447
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Originally Posted by veedubn1 View Post
Why is a 36 year old defenseman with one more year on his deal the answer for a team that has an average age of 25?

Are we all of a sudden one piece away from being cup contenders?
look does the team need a a partner for Phaneuf? the answer is yes.

does the team lack experience? well you said yourself the average age is 25 so the Answer is yes

Adding Dan Boyle acomplishes both goals it gives Phaneuf a legitimate D partner and it injects championship experience into a group that DESPRATELY needs it.

Plus it allows us to move Gunnar down to where he proably should be slotted the #3 or 4 spot take a look athe new D

Phaneuf Boyle

Gardiner Gunnar

Franson Fraser

not to mention HIGHLY regraded prospect Morgan Reily.

Now I will grant you age is a concern but I feel the addition of Dan Boyle even at his age makes this D core MILES better.

You asked if this team was one player away from being a contender. If you add Boyle they would be.

This clubs strength is up front, that is especially true on the wings where they have a VERY solid group Led by a guy who I believe as developed into one of the top 5 RW in the game the last 2 seasons in Phil Kessel. throw in Lupul. JVR and Kuelmin and the 1sts and 2nd line wing positions are VERY solid.

Although I'd like to replace Kuelmin on line 2 and bump him to line 3 to form a checking line of Kuelmin McClement Komarov hopefully we lan a Ryder, Horton or Clarkson type to make that possible .

Center needs work but Kadri was a near PPG guy this year guy so he's proved this year that he can handle at least the #2 role, McClement is great #3 so sliwly but surely it's coming together.

and Reimer? well 6th in save% this year top 10 in shutouts but he's having a rough playoffs though we will see.

Point is though I honestly don't see us as being far away from taking at serious run at it and when I look at what we gotI think the addition of Boyle puts you one peice away.

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05-08-2013, 09:39 AM
  #448
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
look does the team need a a partner for Phaneuf? the answer is yes.

does the team lack experience? well you said yourself the average age is 25 so the Answer is yes

Adding Dan Boyle acomplishes both goals it gives Phaneuf a legitimate D partner and it injects championship experience into a group that DESPRATELY needs it.

Plus it allows us to move Gunnar down to where he proably should be slotted the #3 or 4 spot take a look athe new D

Phaneuf Boyle

Gardiner Gunnar

Franson Fraser

not to mention HIGHLY regraded prospect Morgan Reily.

Now I will grant you age is a concern but I feel the addition of Dan Boyle even at his age makes this D core MILES better.

You asked if this team was one player away from being a contender. If you add Boyle they would be.

This clubs strength is up front, that is especially true on the wings where they have a VERY solid group Led by a guy who I believe as developed into one of the top 5 RW in the game the last 2 seasons in Phil Kessel. throw in Lupul. JVR and Kuelmin and the 1sts and 2nd line wing positions are VERY solid.

Although I'd like to replace Kuelmin on line 2 and bump him to line 3 to form a checking line of Kuelmin McClement Komarov hopefully we lan a Ryder, Horton or Clarkson type to make that possible .

Center needs work but Kadri was a near PPG guy this year guy so he's proved this year that he can handle at least the #2 role, McClement is great #3 so sliwly but surely it's coming together.

and Reimer? well 6th in save% this year top 10 in shutouts but he's having a rough playoffs though we will see.

Point is though I honestly don't see us as being far away from taking at serious run at it and when I look at what we gotI think the addition of Boyle puts you one peice away.
Boyle isn't going anywhere considering his team just swept Vancouver and he's their best D-man.

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05-08-2013, 10:11 AM
  #449
veedubn1
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
look does the team need a a partner for Phaneuf? the answer is yes.

does the team lack experience? well you said yourself the average age is 25 so the Answer is yes

Adding Dan Boyle acomplishes both goals it gives Phaneuf a legitimate D partner and it injects championship experience into a group that DESPRATELY needs it.

Plus it allows us to move Gunnar down to where he proably should be slotted the #3 or 4 spot take a look athe new D

Phaneuf Boyle

Gardiner Gunnar

Franson Fraser

not to mention HIGHLY regraded prospect Morgan Reily.

Now I will grant you age is a concern but I feel the addition of Dan Boyle even at his age makes this D core MILES better.

You asked if this team was one player away from being a contender. If you add Boyle they would be.

This clubs strength is up front, that is especially true on the wings where they have a VERY solid group Led by a guy who I believe as developed into one of the top 5 RW in the game the last 2 seasons in Phil Kessel. throw in Lupul. JVR and Kuelmin and the 1sts and 2nd line wing positions are VERY solid.

Although I'd like to replace Kuelmin on line 2 and bump him to line 3 to form a checking line of Kuelmin McClement Komarov hopefully we lan a Ryder, Horton or Clarkson type to make that possible .

Center needs work but Kadri was a near PPG guy this year guy so he's proved this year that he can handle at least the #2 role, McClement is great #3 so sliwly but surely it's coming together.

and Reimer? well 6th in save% this year top 10 in shutouts but he's having a rough playoffs though we will see.

Point is though I honestly don't see us as being far away from taking at serious run at it and when I look at what we gotI think the addition of Boyle puts you one peice away.
You're overrating the Leafs. Plain and simple. They're not ready to contend within the next two years. A lot of internal development still needs to happen and I sure hope we didn't go through 9 years of losing to have only a two year window in which we can compete for the cup.

Boyle has a two year window until he's done. Our stars (kessel, JVR, etc) will be hitting their prime as he retires.

Additionally, we need a stay-at-home bruiser to pair with Phaneuf... that's not Boyle.

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05-08-2013, 10:57 AM
  #450
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Originally Posted by veedubn1 View Post
You're overrating the Leafs. Plain and simple. They're not ready to contend within the next two years. A lot of internal development still needs to happen and I sure hope we didn't go through 9 years of losing to have only a two year window in which we can compete for the cup.

Boyle has a two year window until he's done. Our stars (kessel, JVR, etc) will be hitting their prime as he retires.

Additionally, we need a stay-at-home bruiser to pair with Phaneuf... that's not Boyle.
You say i'm overrating the Leafs does that mean you believe there is no truth to my post? W part is inaccurate?

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