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All Encompassing Tortorella..ella..ella..eh..eh...and Glen Cigar Thread Part IV

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Old
05-08-2013, 01:48 AM
  #476
Ola
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Originally Posted by dethomas07 View Post
Some are crazy to think torts is a bad coach.. He took players like Prust Mitchell strals boyle etc into average/borderline players into successful players on teams.. He developed mcd, step, hags, dz sauer to some extent... Raised the game of Callahan Dubi staal and girardi.. Has prob influenced moores play to a big extent, soon Brass and dorsett..He's a very effective coach and we don't know how he is behind closed doors.. But with the work he's done he should hav a higher approval rating then does.. I like him a lot..but it's almost that make or break time.. **** or get off the pot!! With the complete overall he gets more time.. But sather is more to blaim for his personnel decisions for sure.. You can't hav success when you bring in 6 new faces and hav success.. We brought in another 5 guys this trade deadline... If we don't keep a team together for 2-3+ yrs your not going to gain any success.. Tweaking your roster is fine but keep trading and changing over that many faces shouldn't com with high expectations short term.. It's foolish!!
You compliment Torts on many issues, and I don't think I disagree with you on a single one of those issues.

But, we play a diffrent style than any of the top 8 teams in this league. We play like some successful teams did in 2003, and today the other best teams have changed and have a vastly diffrent approch. If we have the puck in our end, we have one objective and one objective only, and that is to get through it without making a turnover. Other teams -- as you can see by just spending 15 minutes surfing between other PO's games -- are pretty darn creative in the neutral zone and their play there generates a ton of offense for them, without them giving up much defense.

Who is right here, John Tortorella or the coaches of the top teams in the league?

When I look around the league and see us play, I am just not convinced that Torts has figured something out that nobody else have. Its the opposite.

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05-08-2013, 05:17 AM
  #477
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
You compliment Torts on many issues, and I don't think I disagree with you on a single one of those issues.

But, we play a diffrent style than any of the top 8 teams in this league. We play like some successful teams did in 2003, and today the other best teams have changed and have a vastly diffrent approch. If we have the puck in our end, we have one objective and one objective only, and that is to get through it without making a turnover. Other teams -- as you can see by just spending 15 minutes surfing between other PO's games -- are pretty darn creative in the neutral zone and their play there generates a ton of offense for them, without them giving up much defense.

Who is right here, John Tortorella or the coaches of the top teams in the league?

When I look around the league and see us play, I am just not convinced that Torts has figured something out that nobody else have. Its the opposite.
I agree with you, we are deff different then most teams.. but i think our compete level and work ethic isnt up to where it needs to be in the playoffs.. i see no balls to the wall kind of game as well as winning many battles on the boards for those loose pucks.. thats why i blame the players for not doing that and i think our results would be different if we battled.. we have a ton of skill and in hockey forechecking is everyhing to create offense..yea torts needs to adjust, but players need to step up and play inspired hockey.. look at the islanders, they are so under skilled its ridiculous but.. there work ethic and high compete level is influencing the outcome of the game!

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05-08-2013, 03:39 PM
  #478
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I actually think Sather was better in 2000-2004 than he was in 2005-2009. Some of the mistakes he made post-lockout were so egregious, they'll go down as some of the worst acquisitions in the history of the sport.

.....but yea, that Nash trade.....
2000-2004: 0/4 Playoff Appearances

2005-2009: 4/4 Playoff Appearances

Yeah clearly he did a better job pre-lockout.


Sports is about winning, you don't get or lose bonus points for the how.

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05-08-2013, 04:08 PM
  #479
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
You compliment Torts on many issues, and I don't think I disagree with you on a single one of those issues.

But, we play a diffrent style than any of the top 8 teams in this league. We play like some successful teams did in 2003, and today the other best teams have changed and have a vastly diffrent approch. If we have the puck in our end, we have one objective and one objective only, and that is to get through it without making a turnover. Other teams -- as you can see by just spending 15 minutes surfing between other PO's games -- are pretty darn creative in the neutral zone and their play there generates a ton of offense for them, without them giving up much defense.

Who is right here, John Tortorella or the coaches of the top teams in the league?

When I look around the league and see us play, I am just not convinced that Torts has figured something out that nobody else have. Its the opposite.
Psssst, guess what? John Tortorella coached one of the top teams in the league - #1 in the East, in fact - just last season, the last time the NHL played a full schedule. So, this observation that the game has passed him by isn't exactly supported by something I like to call evidence.


Last edited by Bleed Ranger Blue: 05-08-2013 at 04:21 PM.
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Old
05-08-2013, 04:21 PM
  #480
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
2000-2004: 0/4 Playoff Appearances

2005-2009: 4/4 Playoff Appearances

Yeah clearly he did a better job pre-lockout.


Sports is about winning, you don't get or lose bonus points for the how.
Thank goodness for Henrik Lundqvist.

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05-08-2013, 04:24 PM
  #481
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
2000-2004: 0/4 Playoff Appearances

2005-2009: 4/4 Playoff Appearances

Yeah clearly he did a better job pre-lockout.


Sports is about winning, you don't get or lose bonus points for the how.
Round wins: two.

So much for "winning".

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05-08-2013, 04:59 PM
  #482
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Round wins: two.

So much for "winning".
Four round wins.

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05-08-2013, 05:03 PM
  #483
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Four round wins.
Between 05-09?

We won round one in 2007 and one in 2008.

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Old
05-08-2013, 05:03 PM
  #484
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Four round wins.
Two round wins

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05-08-2013, 05:04 PM
  #485
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Thank goodness for Henrik Lundqvist.
And Jagr

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Old
05-08-2013, 05:30 PM
  #486
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Psssst, guess what? John Tortorella coached one of the top teams in the league - #1 in the East, in fact - just last season, the last time the NHL played a full schedule. So, this observation that the game has passed him by isn't exactly supported by something I like to call evidence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Thank goodness for Henrik Lundqvist.
Your 2nd comment is in response to Kel's playoff appearance post but it can also relate to the Rangers finishing in 1st last year. Granted they played as a better team last year but Lundqvist sure does give Torts a lot of wins.

And Ola's observation is shared by a good number of the board including myself. The evidence is in the games and the past.

I know the rebuttle to Torts being the problem is the talent. Well the coaches job is to maximize the most with what he has. Tom Renney was able to do that. He had a cast of scrubs year in and year out and was able to roll 4 lines and 6 dmen. Torts has had more talent every year, in fact I remember him saying he needed more talent to work with on the team when he first got here, yet in a simplistic system leaves a lot of the fanbase wondering why we can't get more.

I'm not sure if the game has passed him by but it seems like he doesn't want to change lanes and try out these new approaches. It's a shame because whether it's stubbornness or just plain being naive it will be his undoing.

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05-08-2013, 06:00 PM
  #487
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Psssst, guess what? John Tortorella coached one of the top teams in the league - #1 in the East, in fact - just last season, the last time the NHL played a full schedule. So, this observation that the game has passed him by isn't exactly supported by something I like to call evidence.
2009-2010 season
Rangers miss playoffs, goals for = 219

2011-2012 season
Rangers EC champs, goals for = 222

x = Henrik Lundqvist

The offense has been consistently mediocre since Torts has been coach, the PP has been consistently mediocre to poor, and both suffer more in the playoffs like clockwork. Different players, same results. I'd call that evidence.

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05-08-2013, 06:05 PM
  #488
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Thank goodness for Henrik Lundqvist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcman View Post
And Jagr
Who brought them in here? Sather.

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05-08-2013, 06:12 PM
  #489
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Who brought them in here? Sather.
Acquiring and retaining Jagr was just further proof that Sather's master plan included a commitment to nothing.

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05-08-2013, 06:25 PM
  #490
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
2000-2004: 0/4 Playoff Appearances

2005-2009: 4/4 Playoff Appearances

Yeah clearly he did a better job pre-lockout.


Sports is about winning, you don't get or lose bonus points for the how.
Y did you utterly fail to respond to what was the valid legitimate point in his post?

He's got some of the absolute worst FA signings of all time under his belt. He had 4 of the top 10 worst contracts in sports within 5 years. Drury, gomez, redden and now Richards all are players who by year 2 or 3 had fallen off the cliff.

BUT you do have to credit him for jumping on jagr for beans, presiding over the current scout team and getting so many great young guys, signing gabs, trading for McD (Which wipes away the gomer signing), etc. Mixed bag but the results speak loudest to me and the results are mediocre if I'm being kind

Bill Belichick is a bona fide genius and he'll be the first to tell you late in drafts you're throwing darts so the amount of credit Sather gets for Hank is nill

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Old
05-08-2013, 11:04 PM
  #491
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John Tortorella.
All grace and subdued tones after a win, all snarl and snarky after a loss.

Grow up.

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05-09-2013, 06:33 AM
  #492
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Originally Posted by trilobyte View Post
John Tortorella.
All grace and subdued tones after a win, all snarl and snarky after a loss.

Grow up.
Wait til after next game. If this series has shown us anything, it's that he needs home ice to get his matchups to be successful. That doesn't bode well with games 5 & 7 in Washington.

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05-09-2013, 07:13 AM
  #493
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Psssst, guess what? John Tortorella coached one of the top teams in the league - #1 in the East, in fact - just last season, the last time the NHL played a full schedule. So, this observation that the game has passed him by isn't exactly supported by something I like to call evidence.
And, by most measures, everyone thinks last year's team overachieved and they were better than the sum of their parts. Isn't that the hallmark of good coaching?

BTW, yesterday Torts completely outmatched Oates in the credit where credit is due dept. Ovechkin had one shot.

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05-09-2013, 08:29 AM
  #494
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And, by most measures, everyone thinks last year's team overachieved and they were better than the sum of their parts. Isn't that the hallmark of good coaching?

BTW, yesterday Torts completely outmatched Oates in the credit where credit is due dept. Ovechkin had one shot.
The players are why the team won last night.

Had they lost, it would've been Torts' fault.

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05-09-2013, 08:34 AM
  #495
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
Who brought them in here? Sather.
Sather did not bring Lundqvist here.

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05-09-2013, 08:56 AM
  #496
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The players are why the team won last night.

Had they lost, it would've been Torts' fault.
LOL, exactly.

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05-09-2013, 09:08 AM
  #497
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So in the Tortorella thread there is not one mention of his PK adjustment that completely neutralized Green and Ovie on the power play last night?

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05-09-2013, 09:09 AM
  #498
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So in the Tortorella thread there is not one mention of his PK adjustment that completely neutralized Green and Ovie on the power play last night?
Torts is stubborn and unable/unwilling to adjust. You know that by now.

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05-09-2013, 09:11 AM
  #499
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Torts is stubborn and unable/unwilling to adjust. You know that by now.
Except that last night he made a PK adjustment that, as I said, completely neutralized Green and Ovie on the power play last night.

If that was sarcasm...you really need to use the sarcasm icon!!!

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05-09-2013, 09:11 AM
  #500
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So in the Tortorella thread there is not one mention of his PK adjustment that completely neutralized Green and Ovie on the power play last night?
C'mon, you know this is a complaint thread, not a discussion thread. What are you doing?

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