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Old
05-08-2013, 04:28 PM
  #351
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Originally Posted by major major View Post
That's my fantasy as well, but Dougie Hamilton played well for a rookie and still couldn't elevate the Bruins powerplay. Are there any rookie defencemen who've made that kind of difference?
Wasn't there someone on here constantly beating the Cam Fowler drum a year or two ago?

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05-08-2013, 07:48 PM
  #352
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I would be shocked if "our #2 overall "NHL ready" defensmen" didn't start out in Springfield...
Neither would I. Has to get back into game mode somewhere.

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05-09-2013, 08:12 AM
  #353
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I would be shocked if "our #2 overall "NHL ready" defensmen" didn't start out in Springfield...
Agreed, baring injury or just an out of his mind camp.

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05-09-2013, 06:06 PM
  #354
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Wasn't there someone on here constantly beating the Cam Fowler drum a year or two ago?
As I recall almost the whole planet was beating the Cam Fowler drum.

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05-09-2013, 10:23 PM
  #355
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As I recall almost the whole planet was beating the Cam Fowler drum.
People were seriously loving some Cam Fowler ... some hype that I never really understood, as I saw him as what he is: A second/third pairing, puck moving defenseman. Hope he doesn't go all Cam Barker...

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05-09-2013, 11:40 PM
  #356
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Neither would I. Has to get back into game mode somewhere.
I guess we'll see. I mean hes already been skating for months, and will continue to skate and now finally practice, shoot and get to use his arm and be around other people on the ice. So hes got all summer to do that on top of getting into game shape. Idk I could see it going either way and I dont see him staying down for too long. He doesnt need to have a spectacular camp to make the team. Hes been around the coaches and everybody for the last half of the season. Im sure hes talked to the coaches, watched and then at the end skating at practices so i'm sure he knows the drill. They want him IN Columbus for a reason. All its going to take for him to make the team is to out perform any of Nikitin, Prout, Erixon in the beginning of the season. Hell look how many injuries we had on the blue line last season.

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05-10-2013, 08:10 AM
  #357
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People were seriously loving some Cam Fowler ... some hype that I never really understood, as I saw him as what he is: A second/third pairing, puck moving defenseman. Hope he doesn't go all Cam Barker...
Exactly right.

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05-10-2013, 05:51 PM
  #358
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I will say this was an awesome season even though we didn't make the playoffs. I got a feeling we will be a force to be reckon with come next season.
However I feel it will be ever harder with teams like the Peinguins and Capitals as our new arch rivals.

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05-10-2013, 09:52 PM
  #359
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I guess we'll see. I mean hes already been skating for months, and will continue to skate and now finally practice, shoot and get to use his arm and be around other people on the ice. So hes got all summer to do that on top of getting into game shape. Idk I could see it going either way and I dont see him staying down for too long. He doesnt need to have a spectacular camp to make the team. Hes been around the coaches and everybody for the last half of the season. Im sure hes talked to the coaches, watched and then at the end skating at practices so i'm sure he knows the drill. They want him IN Columbus for a reason. All its going to take for him to make the team is to out perform any of Nikitin, Prout, Erixon in the beginning of the season. Hell look how many injuries we had on the blue line last season.
If he comes to camp in game shape and gets his game back quickly, he will be near impossible to leave off the team. He is that good.

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05-11-2013, 12:00 AM
  #360
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If he comes to camp in game shape and gets his game back quickly, he will be near impossible to leave off the team. He is that good.
I completely expect him to be out there after hearing he is "ahead of schedule". I know my expectations are big, but honestly look what our last #2 did, and what he could havedone if a team like this had already been in place. Now we're just taking our already stingy D, adding a high IQ, brilliant skating, quick puck moving, PP QB potential, or leading the PK and in the same offseason potentially adding 4 picks into the system having top 6 nhl potential. With Gaborik getting his "tweak" taken care of maybe we'll see another season of high flying hockey with some of our other little speed demons. This is by far the biggest offseason in bluejacket history. As long as Bob can repeat or at least put up starting goaltender numbers next season I think we'll have a very successful season.

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05-12-2013, 01:18 PM
  #361
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I was going to say don't add anything, as we've got enough players, though perhaps there's room for another multi-player deal, but we definitely could use a PP QB. Not just a blaster, like Wiz, but I'd love to have a guy like Streit or Gonchar who can direct play and move the puck faster.
Don't flame as ive tried to avoid dropping names because in the end we just don't know who might be available and there are so many variables. having said that it is fun to speculate so I was thinking somebody along the lines of Zidlicky. he is a UFA with ties to Richards has played in the east and fits the bill here. There are many more obviously; point being PP Q would help this team.

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05-13-2013, 08:23 AM
  #362
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Don't flame as ive tried to avoid dropping names because in the end we just don't know who might be available and there are so many variables. having said that it is fun to speculate so I was thinking somebody along the lines of Zidlicky. he is a UFA with ties to Richards has played in the east and fits the bill here. There are many more obviously; point being PP Q would help this team.
I'm trying to figure out why we would be looking to add to the defensive mix, when most of the discussion is around lack of spots for what we already have. Not sure he fits what we are looking for either, I've never really considered him all that responsible and I'm really not looking for a PP specialist. He wouldn't play 20+ minutes on this team unless there was injury.

Let the market spend money on him. We are probably looking for help more on the forward lines than the defensive pairings.

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05-13-2013, 08:40 AM
  #363
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I'm trying to figure out why we would be looking to add to the defensive mix, when most of the discussion is around lack of spots for what we already have. Not sure he fits what we are looking for either, I've never really considered him all that responsible and I'm really not looking for a PP specialist. He wouldn't play 20+ minutes on this team unless there was injury.

Let the market spend money on him. We are probably looking for help more on the forward lines than the defensive pairings.
Ding ding. CBJ was 25th in the league in scoring last year. Not that there's anything wrong with an embarrassment of riches on defense but would adding Zidlicky mean that? I think not.

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05-14-2013, 01:45 PM
  #364
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Lots of interesting conversation going on. I thought about responding to a few specific points, but instead I think I'll give my own opinion, for what its worth.

I would be shocked if we see any big name moves this off season. We have a young team that finished the season 19-5-5, 2nd best in the NHL. We don't need to play around much with things.


If I'm Jarmo, my white board for the summer looks like this:

Re-sign Bob, Artem, and Vinny.

Draft for the future.

Consider a veteran back up net minder.


If JK/JD can nail those three down, I think things will be looking good for the next several years....and by good I mean playoffs and beyond.

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05-14-2013, 02:21 PM
  #365
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I would be shocked if we see any big name moves this off season. We have a young team that finished the season 19-5-5, 2nd best in the NHL. We don't need to play around much with things.
Big names? Maybe. Only because big names are a little harder to get done. Shocked? No, more like mild surprise. Why? Why would I be when JK/JD have already indicated they want add/help on offense and have already indicated that one or more of our 1st's would be in play for the right deal.

These guys are pretty transparent. Despite the finish, it's not hard to look at the team and realize where we could improve. They indicated that they expect some of it to come from inside the room. However, they indicated that is not all they are looking at and they weren't talking about adding a role player.

They weren't satisfied with the results. That is a VERY refreshing change around here from up top. I do not mean this in an insulting way, but your off season reminds me of a Howson off season. These guys don't strike me as content with that. They want no less than being a Cup contender. We aren't there yet and we probably aren't with the players we have, as much as I love Atkinson, Calvert, Dubinsky, AA, Foligno, Johnson, Erixon, Bob, and Tyutin (my main list). That is a great start with a decent core. We have some good complementary players to go along with that, but we'll want to add if we expect to be more than what we were. It's too hard for us to get points right now. Not to mention a lot of our wins were only worth 1 point against the team we beat. Too many OT games. We've learned that if you are going to lose, do it in OT (get points). But now we have to move to the next level. If we are going to win, make they two point games instead of giving the competition a point and wasting all that energy in OT and the SO.

I translate this to things like Chess. You always want your moves to create momentum. Standing still and hoping for the room to improve is a good way to get left behind and regress.

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05-14-2013, 04:37 PM
  #366
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I agree with what blah said. This team is a beginning not an end product. I think many here will be disappointed with next year. Now way this group can maintain their 19-5-5 finish over the course of a season. (of course I didn't think they'd actually maintain the finish).

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05-14-2013, 07:46 PM
  #367
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I agree with what blah said. This team is a beginning not an end product. I think many here will be disappointed with next year. Now way this group can maintain their 19-5-5 finish over the course of a season. (of course I didn't think they'd actually maintain the finish).
I don't think anybody expects it to. We expect to battle for a playoff spot.

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05-14-2013, 08:10 PM
  #368
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Big names? Maybe. Only because big names are a little harder to get done. Shocked? No, more like mild surprise. Why? Why would I be when JK/JD have already indicated they want add/help on offense and have already indicated that one or more of our 1st's would be in play for the right deal.

These guys are pretty transparent. Despite the finish, it's not hard to look at the team and realize where we could improve. They indicated that they expect some of it to come from inside the room. However, they indicated that is not all they are looking at and they weren't talking about adding a role player.

They weren't satisfied with the results. That is a VERY refreshing change around here from up top. I do not mean this in an insulting way, but your off season reminds me of a Howson off season. These guys don't strike me as content with that. They want no less than being a Cup contender. We aren't there yet and we probably aren't with the players we have, as much as I love Atkinson, Calvert, Dubinsky, AA, Foligno, Johnson, Erixon, Bob, and Tyutin (my main list). That is a great start with a decent core. We have some good complementary players to go along with that, but we'll want to add if we expect to be more than what we were. It's too hard for us to get points right now. Not to mention a lot of our wins were only worth 1 point against the team we beat. Too many OT games. We've learned that if you are going to lose, do it in OT (get points). But now we have to move to the next level. If we are going to win, make they two point games instead of giving the competition a point and wasting all that energy in OT and the SO.

I translate this to things like Chess. You always want your moves to create momentum. Standing still and hoping for the room to improve is a good way to get left behind and regress.
Might. Might be in play for the right deal. They also said they feel they were a lot more goals to be had from multiple players on the roster(Cam, Gaborik, Calvert, Johansen, Dubinsky, Wisnewski + the offense that Murray will bring)

Just because you're not moving backward doesnt techinally mean you're moving backward. They still have a lot of space to grow into being such young team. I would like to think they'll wait until the deadline to make any major moves. Now making a major splash in FA or a minor trade that could end up being a big deal later on might be made. Light a Bobrovsky type trade where at first the league doesnt take notice until a season or two later.

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05-15-2013, 09:48 AM
  #369
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Might. Might be in play for the right deal. They also said they feel they were a lot more goals to be had from multiple players on the roster(Cam, Gaborik, Calvert, Johansen, Dubinsky, Wisnewski + the offense that Murray will bring)
If it's the right deal, from their perspective, it probably covers your concerns. If it meets their criteria, they are in play. They've already said it. If it doesn't meet their criteria, it's not the right deal.

I have no idea what your distinction is.

As for the rest of it, I covered what my position and I don't see where you really contradicted it.

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05-15-2013, 11:31 AM
  #370
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I translate this to things like Chess. You always want your moves to create momentum. Standing still and hoping for the room to improve is a good way to get left behind and regress.
19-5-5 is momentum. **** around with that chemistry, and you might find yourself going in reverse.

Obviously, you keep your eyes open for the right guy, the guy you think can be plugged in, but don't force it. As I said, I would be surprised if any top 6 movement happens.

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I do not mean this in an insulting way, but your off season reminds me of a Howson off season.
No insult taken, but I think you are mistaken. Howson was anything but latent in the offseason.

Bobrovsky
Foligno
Dubinsky
Anisimov
Erixon
Carter
Aucoin
Prospal
Wisniewski

Thats off the top of my head the personnel that was brought in over the last 2 Howson off seasons.


Last edited by Nordique: 05-15-2013 at 11:49 AM.
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05-15-2013, 01:57 PM
  #371
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19-5-5 is momentum. **** around with that chemistry, and you might find yourself going in reverse.

Obviously, you keep your eyes open for the right guy, the guy you think can be plugged in, but don't force it. As I said, I would be surprised if any top 6 movement happens.
Fear leading to inaction. No thanks. Honestly, all you did was point at the record and ignore what I actually wrote, in detail, on the roster situation. For example, the wins coming too hard, giving other team points, etc.

You are also just ignoring the front office words. This isn't Howson in years 1-3. The deals are going to be hard and may not happen, but there will be a serious and aggressive attempt. Not a counter for a Vermette offer by asking for Oshie, for example, and claiming "I tried, but it's hard!".

Quote:
No insult taken, but I think you are mistaken. Howson was anything but latent in the offseason.
That was on the downside of his time here. I wasn't clear, but a perfect example would be his off season after our playoff run. Also some of his moves were prompted by Nash requesting to leave town. Not exactly proactive on his part.

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05-15-2013, 09:40 PM
  #372
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19-5-5 is momentum. **** around with that chemistry, and you might find yourself going in reverse.
There's no such thing as season-to-season momentum. It's never been found in any sport, at any point in history.

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05-15-2013, 10:31 PM
  #373
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There's no such thing as season-to-season momentum. It's never been found in any sport, at any point in history.
Agree.... momentum is a short term phenomenon based on the roster and moment at the time..

As for the future, signing the key players that were key to our 19-5-5 run is a given-in a word; a baseline. If the Jackets want to win a playoff series they must add players now... I think the chances of JD/JK taking the conservative route by simply signing players we currently have is just about zero... Expect one or more of those golden 2013 first round draft picks to be spent in a trade or trades, this organization is going to be bold....

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05-15-2013, 10:57 PM
  #374
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Agree.... momentum is a short term phenomenon based on the roster and moment at the time..

As for the future, signing the key players that were key to our 19-5-5 run is a given-in a word; a baseline. If the Jackets want to win a playoff series they must add players now... I think the chances of JD/JK taking the conservative route by simply signing players we currently have is just about zero... Expect one or more of those golden 2013 first round draft picks to be spent in a trade or trades, this organization is going to be bold....
Jack Adams would be proud. Take an extremely young team that went on a tear down the latter 2/3 of a season, then make "bold moves" without having any real idea of exactly how good the team on the ice actually is.

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05-16-2013, 12:12 AM
  #375
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I'm going to introduce a concept here, somewhat similar to VORP, which Wikipedia defines as:

"In baseball, value over replacement player (or VORP) is a statistic popularized by Keith Woolner that demonstrates how much a hitter contributes offensively or how much a pitcher contributes to his team in comparison to a fictitious "replacement player," who is an average fielder at his position and a below average hitter.[1][2] A replacement player performs at "replacement level," which is the level of performance an average team can expect when trying to replace a player at minimal cost, also known as 'freely available talent.'"

I find VORP to be useful in thinking about the relative value of players, but for this particular Jackets' offseason I'm using a slightly different concept: Value Over Replaced Blue Jacket (or VORBJ. Not the same ring to it, I know.). The Jackets could use upgrades on the top line and on the powerplay, but we are a deep team on both forward and defence, so whoever we bring in means letting someone go, and whatever ice time the incoming player gets will be pulled from others. VORBJ, then, would have a weighting scheme heavier than VORP.

On another thread someone mentioned wanting to acquire Patrick Sharp (unavailable, I know), and someone else brought up Stalberg as a suitable backup prize. But in terms of VORBJ, Sharp is worth several times what Stalberg is. Bringing in Stalberg would mean not resigning one of Vinny or Comeau, both of whom might have outproduced him.

In sum, I'm looking for massive VORBJ this offseason, or no moves at all.

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