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Ot:hockey alberta eliminates body checking in peewee division

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Old
05-08-2013, 06:02 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by CorpseFX View Post
i agree with this. and tons of kids probably quit before bantams/midget anyhow.

people just want to hold on tight to that macho tradition so some ridiculous identity doesnt "fade"

/"THEYRE KILLING CANADA AND THE GAME. OUR CHILDREN ARE SUFFERING."
Yeah, and people who want to ban hitting just want everybody to live in the nanny state and are a bunch of wusses.
See, isnt this fun!!!

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05-08-2013, 06:09 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Yukon Joe View Post
You're asking a 10 year old to decide "oh, I'm never going to make the NHL, so I'll go no-contact".

There doesn't seem to be any evidence that suggests "learning to take and receive a hit" reduces injuries. None.

It's as if people aren't following the news, or reading the studies. Personally, I like hitting in hockey. I like fighting, I like the general violence. But the studies are pretty damn conclusive, specially when it comes to kids.
A 10 yr should not be making this decision, should be the parents.

Well it is hard to get any evidence now as the last province to have hitting in atom was Saskatchewan, I think they took it out 5 years ago. Wonder if they took data on concussions that long ago. The rest of the provinces have been approx. over 10 years.

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05-08-2013, 06:16 PM
  #103
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I'm a bit torn on this. I don't know if it's a good idea to create bad habits for kids who will be hitting later on, but the statistics of concussions at this age are pretty incriminating evidence.

Having a seperate no hitting league is not a proper solution. That already exists and there's no real level of competition in it.

I was small til I hit a growth spurt at around 15, so I remember the first few years of hitting to be a pretty **** experience for me. I was always a finesse player, and I remember getting slightly turned off the game at that age because I got rocked quite often. I had 2 concussions in my first two years of contact hockey.

I think the best way to handle this is to watch what happens in the next few years in terms of injuries in bantam, and decide where to go from there.

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05-08-2013, 06:17 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Bobblehead View Post
Apparently they do listen to constituents......


BODY CHECKING SURVEY RESULTS
1,114 Responses Starting in June at Hockey Alberta’s Annual General Meeting
62 % Believe HA needed to review its position on body checking
80% Believe it needs to be Provincial decision
55% Believe HA should “change” its position on Body Checking
55% Believe Body Checking should be removed from all PW
Ahh, no. Just a year ago Hockey Albertas own survey reflected that over 80% were against banning hitting at pee wee.
http://www.hockeyalberta.ca/index.ph...20AGM%20Survey

Furthuremore , a year ago in Calgary that cities 24 organizations voted in favor of retaing hitting

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05-08-2013, 06:20 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by timekeep View Post
A 10 yr should not be making this decision, should be the parents.

Well it is hard to get any evidence now as the last province to have hitting in atom was Saskatchewan, I think they took it out 5 years ago. Wonder if they took data on concussions that long ago. The rest of the provinces have been approx. over 10 years.
Turn it around then - you're asking a parent to tell their 10 year old "sorry, you'll never make it to the NHL". That sounds even more unlikely.

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05-08-2013, 06:23 PM
  #106
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Kids are gonna learn playing with their heads down....
Did Eller have his head up?? 99.9% of these kids aren't making the show. I'm sure the kids are upset that they won't get to hurt each other I am in favour of this decision by hockey alberta, it is not a tough decision considering the studies done on head injuries recently. This isn't going to ruin the sport, it is just making a decision to protect children from an unnecessary injury. There was a time when goalies didn't wear helmets, good thing we evolved from that don't you think?

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05-08-2013, 06:23 PM
  #107
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Body contact (rub-outs) has been aloud in Atom and now Peewee, its body checking that isn't allowed. This very hard for referees, especially the ones that allow the rubouts, seems like the refs that call all contact seem to get the least hassle. It is very difficult to differentiate between a body check and rubout for some of these referees and especially hockey moms.
In Atom if a kid goes down on a rub, it's going to get called, no matter if he was hit, or just tripped over his feet. That's going to be the hard part for the young refs, I agree. I don't know how much support they get throughout the year, but it may be a long one for some of them.

I feel this is going to go over like a lead balloon in the higher tiers of Peewee.

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05-08-2013, 06:25 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Yukon Joe View Post
Turn it around then - you're asking a parent to tell their 10 year old "sorry, you'll never make it to the NHL". That sounds even more unlikely.
Maybe that parent should be telling his child to have fun, which is the most important aspect of sport for any child.

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05-08-2013, 06:30 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Yukon Joe View Post
Turn it around then - you're asking a parent to tell their 10 year old "sorry, you'll never make it to the NHL". That sounds even more unlikely.
I'm telling the parent to make a decision if you want your kid to play contact or not, there are options. Has nothing to do with making the NHL. There are allot of people that argue, since way less than 1% play hockey for a living why should kids play with body checking? I respect that argument but don't agree with it. The same could be said for minor football.

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05-08-2013, 06:33 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Thrill22 View Post
In Atom if a kid goes down on a rub, it's going to get called, no matter if he was hit, or just tripped over his feet. That's going to be the hard part for the young refs, I agree. I don't know how much support they get throughout the year, but it may be a long one for some of them.

I feel this is going to go over like a lead balloon in the higher tiers of Peewee.
Its not a new rule to Atom, has been for a couple of years now. The younger refs call everything, the older ones let more go.

The higher tiers of PW are going to be gong show next year.

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05-08-2013, 06:44 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Yukon Joe View Post
Turn it around then - you're asking a parent to tell their 10 year old "sorry, you'll never make it to the NHL". That sounds even more unlikely.
I was told by 8 or 9 that I had no shot at making the NHL. Not a big deal.

PW is gonna be fun next year.

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05-08-2013, 06:44 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Billybaroo View Post
Ahh, no. Just a year ago Hockey Albertas own survey reflected that over 80% were against banning hitting at pee wee.
http://www.hockeyalberta.ca/index.ph...20AGM%20Survey

Furthuremore , a year ago in Calgary that cities 24 organizations voted in favor of retaing hitting
I don't get the two surveys? Which came first, which came after and why the difference in numbers.... robo calls?

142 respondents in that survey. over a 1100 in this one. Seems like the majority has spoken? Or do you want to copy Quebec again and say that one doesn't count we need another vote until our side wins?


Last edited by Bobblehead: 05-08-2013 at 06:59 PM.
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05-08-2013, 06:48 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Thrill22 View Post
In Atom if a kid goes down on a rub, it's going to get called, no matter if he was hit, or just tripped over his feet. That's going to be the hard part for the young refs, I agree. I don't know how much support they get throughout the year, but it may be a long one for some of them.

I feel this is going to go over like a lead balloon in the higher tiers of Peewee.
for those going into second year Pee-Wee it will be tough to adjust, but for the next year, no one will know any different. They did this in Quebec when I grew up there. Brought checking in to Elite PeeWee only to take it out after I moved up to Bantam. Short term pain....

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05-08-2013, 06:50 PM
  #114
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I never even thought about the higher levels of peewee. There will be some rightful frustration at having a tool taken away from them that they're accustomed to using.


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05-08-2013, 07:14 PM
  #115
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It would be interesting to know what % of kids in minor hockey continue on into a league where there is hitting (juniors, competitive mens leagues and senior hockey). I don't know what the #'s are, but I would bet that most kids stop playing contact hockey after midget. I know for myself (and I think most of my friends and team mates that I grew up playing hockey with) I took a couple years off hockey to go to college and then started playing in a mens league that was just for fun and beer. Again I don't know the stats, but if this is how most people play out there hockey "career", then why on earth are we subjecting ALL kids to the risk of concussions from hitting when only a FEW will go onto leagues where hitting is a major part of the game.

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05-08-2013, 07:42 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon Joe View Post
You're asking a 10 year old to decide "oh, I'm never going to make the NHL, so I'll go no-contact".

There doesn't seem to be any evidence that suggests "learning to take and receive a hit" reduces injuries. None.

It's as if people aren't following the news, or reading the studies. Personally, I like hitting in hockey. I like fighting, I like the general violence. But the studies are pretty damn conclusive, specially when it comes to kids.
The parents are the ones making the decision. I dont really care what a study says or doesnt say tbh. Ive got personal life experiences that have helped to shape my pov. There was hitting in hockey from the get go when I started playing. I took a break for a couple years then went back into a highly physical league and it was a big adjustment.

Everyone has different experiences but that was mine and it would have been much easier for me to have not taken a break than to have done so, trying to adjust to the hitting and physicality again. No question. No study needed.

If you plan on playing contact hockey later on then it only makes sense to learn those fundamentals along with skating, puckhandling, shooting etc. If you dont plan on playing contact hockey that option should be available to you/your kids. Why take the personal choice away? Its absolutely ridiculous.

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05-08-2013, 08:04 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Bobblehead View Post
I don't get the two surveys? Which came first, which came after and why the difference in numbers.... robo calls?

142 respondents in that survey. over a 1100 in this one. Seems like the majority has spoken? Or do you want to copy Quebec again and say that one doesn't count we need another vote until our side wins?
There is no doubt in my mind HA had an agenda in my mind and most of what they did was in an effort to fufill that agenda. And the parents, constituents, and organizations views be dammed.
The conspiract theorist in me thinks that when HA didnt get the results they wanted out of the 1st survey,they did another one. I wasnt even aware of the 2nd one. I do know many organizations did their own surveys and the results of the HA last poll wasnt close to been replicated.
Im waiting now for lacrosse, football, rugby to all become non contact.. After all, kids get injured

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05-08-2013, 08:57 PM
  #118
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Few thoughts: I could handle taking out hitting in peewee house or b3,b2 because a large majority of those kids wont play high level midget, jr etc where they guys are massive. So risking injury to them in peewee is kinds stupid.

But, for high level peewee kids, you must teach them to hit. These guys will go on to higher level midget, Jr. and they need to be ready, if not, they will risk more than a mild concussion.

The injuries in peewee are alot milder than injuries in midget or bantam. Kids in peewee are relatively same size, in bantam some kids grow, others dont

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05-08-2013, 08:59 PM
  #119
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Havent read the thread, but to anyone citing the report gregor was referencing (How Que kids are safer) he says both AB bantam kids and Que bantam kids face same risk of injury.

Does anyone know the % of injuries for Que bantams when there was hitting in peewee vs. when it started in bantam. That would be more telling.

I also take into account the different nature of hockey in quebec vs AB. Imagine some quebec bantam team vs a farm town AB team, jesus, I played rep city hockey and the provincials we got served by the farm kids, just destroyed.

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05-08-2013, 09:07 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Seedling View Post
Brutal. Oh well, it's not like you are allowed to hit in the NHL anymore anyway.
Pretty much.
Modern hockey is a pale imitation of what it once was.

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Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1 View Post
I say this in all honesty and without sarcasm or anything.

Those following the train of the studies (not saying that's necessarily anyone here, but more the studiers and the groups pushing these initiatives) should be advocating for non-contact sport. It is more intellectually honest in terms of their purpose. To advocate for changes that aren't meant to be permanent but rather incremental, without acknowledging that end, is improper.

Once this question is answered, an honest debate with knowledge of the end games can take place.
What an excellent point - and if I may say its a point that could be applied to many many social issues today. Sadly I don't think the pc crowd is interested in honest debate. Much easier to boil the frog slowly.

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05-08-2013, 11:12 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
Havent read the thread, but to anyone citing the report gregor was referencing (How Que kids are safer) he says both AB bantam kids and Que bantam kids face same risk of injury.

Does anyone know the % of injuries for Que bantams when there was hitting in peewee vs. when it started in bantam. That would be more telling.

I also take into account the different nature of hockey in quebec vs AB. Imagine some quebec bantam team vs a farm town AB team, jesus, I played rep city hockey and the provincials we got served by the farm kids, just destroyed.
Likely no statistics available for hitting in pee-wee in Quebec. There was none when I was in Atom. They brought it in for 2 years when I was in pee-wee (but only rep leagues) and then they got rid of it. No one was tracking this type of thing in the 80's.

Quebec has a large rural population too. Lots of farm kids in Quebec. Quebec isn't just Montreal. Have you ever watched the Quebec Semi Pro (Wrestling) Hockey League.... most of those guys grew up playing in Quebec and that's a very violent (bush) league. There's no fact there....just opinion. The Quebec junior teams are doing fine in the Memorial Cup against western farm boys. Champions the last 2 years.

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05-08-2013, 11:46 PM
  #122
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They should be lowering the age, not raising it. I think they should start teaching how to hit in practice in novice, and should have contact in atom, before the early bloomers start shooting up.

Having a bunch of hormone fueled 13-15 year olds just learning how to hit is going to cause a lot of situations where people aren't respecting each other and pulling dirty hits.

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05-09-2013, 12:28 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
The parents are the ones making the decision. I dont really care what a study says or doesnt say tbh. Ive got personal life experiences that have helped to shape my pov.
Well that really says everything that needs to be said, doesn't it.

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05-09-2013, 12:33 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1 View Post
I say this in all honesty and without sarcasm or anything.

Those following the train of the studies (not saying that's necessarily anyone here, but more the studiers and the groups pushing these initiatives) should be advocating for non-contact sport. It is more intellectually honest in terms of their purpose. To advocate for changes that aren't meant to be permanent but rather incremental, without acknowledging that end, is improper.

Once this question is answered, an honest debate with knowledge of the end games can take place.
This is quite the piece of rhetoric.

You manage to combine a slippery slope argument, with an attack on the honesty and integrity or anyone who disagrees with you. Well done!

Someone can in fact be in favour of violent hits in the game of hockey, and be opposed to those same violent hits being dished out by 10-11 year olds.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

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05-09-2013, 02:07 AM
  #125
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Likely no statistics available for hitting in pee-wee in Quebec. There was none when I was in Atom. They brought it in for 2 years when I was in pee-wee (but only rep leagues) and then they got rid of it. No one was tracking this type of thing in the 80's.

Quebec has a large rural population too. Lots of farm kids in Quebec. Quebec isn't just Montreal. Have you ever watched the Quebec Semi Pro (Wrestling) Hockey League.... most of those guys grew up playing in Quebec and that's a very violent (bush) league. There's no fact there....just opinion. The Quebec junior teams are doing fine in the Memorial Cup against western farm boys. Champions the last 2 years.
I wasnt calling out Quebec hockey, I was just trying to idenitfy if the size difference may be one possibility. What works in Quebec wont work in AB type thing. All I can speak of is my personal experience. I played bantam probaly 6-7 years ago and it way a very rough league, especially against the farm teams.

I just cant agree with the statistics till I see a province/state that went from hitting in peewee to hitting in bantam and see the % change in injuries. If the studies show that delaying hitting till bantam decreased injuries in bantam kids from the time periods when kids came in knowing how to hit vs the kids who come in just learning how to hit.

Common sense tells me injuries in bantam will increase when kids are learning how to hit, essantially delaying a kids injury by a year. And once they enter bantam, those size difference in kids will grow, magnifying any injuries. In peewee a 5 foot kid will run into a 4'6 kid, in bantam a 5'7 kid will run into 4'9 kid

I cannot be fully nuetral since I just finished playing hockey, but I am in favour of teaching them early. Lacrosse does it, then helped me adjust in that sport when I was in novice, and its parlayed into hockey, so when I when into peewee hockey I had little problems.

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