HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Phoenix LXXVI: Renaissance Men

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-08-2013, 06:20 PM
  #476
TheLegend
Megathread Refugee
 
TheLegend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Anxiety Closet
Country: United States
Posts: 3,298
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by madhi19 View Post
Somebody explain to me again because that one I really don't get. How a city that bleeding money left and right and are desperate to create foot traffic in Westgate would waste more than 3 million fighting a real money and foot traffic generator?
Because they don't automatically generate the money people are led to believe they do.

At one time I lived near three tribal casinos in Southern California. The only foot traffic generated was in and out of them. The only money generated was whatever the tribes decided they wanted to give. The only development around them were on the tribal lands.

Arizona only receives a small percentage of what the tribes make from gaming. And the tribes can determine where that money goes.

This is a breakdown of gaming contributions to the state since gaming was approved by voters in 2004.

http://www.gm.state.az.us/tcontribut...Cumulative.pdf

If you look at the line for contributions to cities, munis and counties the total statewide benefit came to roughly $12 million in FY2012. That amount is for entire state. Glendale's portion of that comes down to the low six figures.. Yet they would be carrying the brunt of costs for fire and police required which will eat that amount up in no time.

TheLegend is offline  
Old
05-08-2013, 06:22 PM
  #477
aqib
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,364
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Ya, and once again, and I hate to sound like a broken record, but yes, Gary Bettman shouldve been a lot more diligent in working with Burke & Gluckstern in Lease Negotiations with Jerry Colangelo, insuring they got a fair shake. Didnt do that, didnt bother to over-see the transactions & plans in order to protect the leagues integrity & wider interests, and as a result, no win situation. Right then & there was when the seeds of destruction were planted... if Colangelo wasnt willing to play nice, then the team shouldve moved into the old War Vets Memorial on the State Fair Grounds (original home of the WHA & later IHL Roadrunners), spent some money & fixed it up. Built the brand, fan base, promoted themselves properly, Olde Tyme Hockey, bided their time & either built anew on the Fairgrounds, Downtown or in Scottsdale.
It only sat 13,730 for hockey so I don't know how viable it would have been. Yes Winnipeg has 15,015 but obviously hockey is bigger up there. Sure the Islanders will have about 14,500 but they can offset that with a gigantic cable deal.

Also, if they were there they would be in the oldest arena in the NHL and we would be talking about how they are in an antiquated arena and they need to move.

aqib is offline  
Old
05-08-2013, 06:26 PM
  #478
TheLegend
Megathread Refugee
 
TheLegend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Anxiety Closet
Country: United States
Posts: 3,298
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuelphStormer View Post
it's the children. they are protecting the children. casinos are evil, they attract drug dealers, aliens and rabid dogs. they drain churches of their sunday morning coffers. people lose their jobs, their homes, they end up on the streets, homeless, they become hookers, or worse, lawyers. pray tell, what kid of life is that for the children? thank god glendale is protecting them!
Sarcasm noted....

This casino will be located directly across from a high school.

I've also had relatives followed home from a tribal casino and robbed at gunpoint. Joke about it all you want but there is a very real dark side to gaming.

TheLegend is offline  
Old
05-08-2013, 06:36 PM
  #479
Acesolid
The Illusive Bettman
 
Acesolid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Québec
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,761
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post
Sarcasm noted....

This casino will be located directly across from a high school.

I've also had relatives followed home from a tribal casino and robbed at gunpoint. Joke about it all you want but there is a very real dark side to gaming.
That's completely wrong.

Gambling is only for adults last time I checked. Also the thievery isn't caused by casinos, but unrelated American social problems.

I can tell you from experience working in a Province-run gambling spot in QC that it's completely safe, otherwise I wouldn't have agreed to work there!

If huge parts of many American cities are unsafe it ain't because of the casinos! But I'm getting off topic...

And besides Quebec (or... Say Monaco) is one of the safest places in the world, with a huge section of the state's revenues comming from gambling!

Acesolid is offline  
Old
05-08-2013, 06:42 PM
  #480
Llama19
Registered User
 
Llama19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Apocalypse, AZ
Country: United States
Posts: 1,266
vCash: 1100
Marry!...Darin Pastor looks to finalize bid for Phoenix Coyotes

To quote:

"California investment executive Darin Pastor will be in Phoenix tomorrow to finalize his group’s proposed bid to buy the Phoenix Coyotes and keep them in Glendale.

Glendale spokeswoman Julie Frisoni said she was not aware of planned meetings with Pastor, but added the NHL also may be handling their logistics."

Source: http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...lize-deal.html

Let the Pageant begin!

Fare thee well!

Llama19 is offline  
Old
05-08-2013, 06:42 PM
  #481
TheLegend
Megathread Refugee
 
TheLegend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Anxiety Closet
Country: United States
Posts: 3,298
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by barneyg View Post

No offense but this kind of relativism is an insult to everyone's intelligence. I'm sure you guys know better than hide behind the laziness of sports journalists. We here at the BOH (that would include you, TL) have consistently been able to process this information much more efficiently than either the Republic (who we all know you hate) or Fox (which I guess you agree with on this issue?)

No offense taken barney..... but your opinion of what I think about the AZ Republic and Fox is dead wrong.

I've been critical of AZR in the past because they haven't been thorough in investigating for their articles. Giblin's the first reporter IMO who has actually made the attempt to dig into the subject.

And I haven't agreed, disagreed, or sided with either article. I've only stated they are different viewpoints.

TheLegend is offline  
Old
05-08-2013, 06:46 PM
  #482
davemac1313
Registered User
 
davemac1313's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Keewatin, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 524
vCash: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post
Sarcasm noted....

This casino will be located directly across from a high school.

I've also had relatives followed home from a tribal casino and robbed at gunpoint. Joke about it all you want but there is a very real dark side to gaming.
Theres a dark side to Guns...yet Cabelas is near the high school...they sell guns, COG has to pay for services, Police and Fire....never shoulda let them near Glendale....they have knives too....

There is a dark side to near everything, not sure why they have spent 3 million to date, how much would the services cost per year? Given the city is broke, they wouldn't have hired cops or fireman, just stretched coverage...as they now must do.

45 million to the NHL, 3 million fighting a losing battle......

Remind me what the dark side really is.

Could that 48 million not have bought more cops to deal with the Dark Issues? or perhaps the pittance contributed by the casino could have funded some of the current shortfall for Fire and Police...

davemac1313 is offline  
Old
05-08-2013, 06:49 PM
  #483
TheLegend
Megathread Refugee
 
TheLegend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Anxiety Closet
Country: United States
Posts: 3,298
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acesolid View Post
That's completely wrong.

Gambling is only for adults last time I checked. Also the thievery isn't caused by casinos, but unrelated American social problems.

I can tell you from experience working in a Province-run gambling spot in QC that it's completely safe, otherwise I wouldn't have agreed to work there!

If huge parts of many American cities are unsafe it ain't because of the casinos! But I'm getting off topic...

And besides Quebec (or... Say Monaco) is one of the safest places in the world, with a huge section of the state's revenues comming from gambling!
So you're saying that my relative being robbed at gunpoint is a fantasy? This particular casino wasn't located in a huge American city, it was in a rural area.

FYI..... I also have experience working in the gaming business (Nevada). And it's true that they are relatively safe places, but that safety ENDS at the property boundary.

TheLegend is offline  
Old
05-08-2013, 06:50 PM
  #484
rt
Usually Incorrect
 
rt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Rarely Sober
Country: United States
Posts: 41,461
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acesolid View Post
That's completely wrong.

Gambling is only for adults last time I checked. Also the thievery isn't caused by casinos, but unrelated American social problems.

I can tell you from experience working in a Province-run gambling spot in QC that it's completely safe, otherwise I wouldn't have agreed to work there!

If huge parts of many American cities are unsafe it ain't because of the casinos! But I'm getting off topic...

And besides Quebec (or... Say Monaco) is one of the safest places in the world, with a huge section of the state's revenues comming from gambling!
I think his point was that the casinos can potential act as a beacon for an existing criminal element. It's not surprising this isn't demonstrated in a very low crime area. There really isn't a whole lot of crime in Canada, relative to the US, so it's not a good comparison.

I don't necessarily agree with TL on this, though.

rt is offline  
Old
05-08-2013, 06:53 PM
  #485
rt
Usually Incorrect
 
rt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Rarely Sober
Country: United States
Posts: 41,461
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by davemac1313 View Post
Theres a dark side to Guns...yet Cabelas is near the high school...they sell guns, COG has to pay for services, Police and Fire....never shoulda let them near Glendale....they have knives too....
Nobody goes to Cabela's to purchase firearms for the purposes of committing crimes with them. That's lunacy.

Your greater point still stands. Seems like a waste of money fighting a casino. Whatevs. Nobody here cares if Glendale gets a casino or not.

rt is offline  
Old
05-08-2013, 06:58 PM
  #486
KevyD
Make It 30!!!!
 
KevyD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Niagara
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,998
vCash: 500
So many posts...

In 20 words or less, is there anything new???

KevyD is online now  
Old
05-08-2013, 06:58 PM
  #487
wildcat48
HFB Partner
 
wildcat48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: South Portland, ME
Country: United States
Posts: 3,226
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Nobody goes to Cabela's to purchase firearms for the purposes of committing crimes with them. That's lunacy.

Your greater point still stands. Seems like a waste of money fighting a casino. Whatevs. Nobody here cares if Glendale gets a casino or not.
OT: You're joking, right? We just had a guy here in Maine purchase a gun, off his mother because she was going to have him committed.... all within days of each other. He's now sitting in jail awaiting a competency hearing to see if he's fit to stand trail for manslaughter or murder.

wildcat48 is offline  
Old
05-08-2013, 07:01 PM
  #488
Acesolid
The Illusive Bettman
 
Acesolid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Québec
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,761
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post
So you're saying that my relative being robbed at gunpoint is a fantasy? This particular casino wasn't located in a huge American city, it was in a rural area.

FYI..... I also have experience working in the gaming business (Nevada). And it's true that they are relatively safe places, but that safety ENDS at the property boundary.
What I'm saying is: the reason he was robbed at gunpoint isn't necessarely the casino, but the criminallity already present in the arena (that might have set up shop near the casino because of the ''preyable'' people there).

But they would be somewhere else in the city if there was no casino, so it doesn't really change anything, the casino isn't the cause.

The fact that there is no crime around gambling spots in areas where there is already very little criminallity (quebec, monaco, Winsor, etc...)is in my mind a proof that casinos don't create thieves and criminals out of thin air like some like to claim.

Acesolid is offline  
Old
05-08-2013, 07:02 PM
  #489
molsonmuscle360
Registered User
 
molsonmuscle360's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ft. McMurray Ab
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,272
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post
Sarcasm noted....

This casino will be located directly across from a high school.

I've also had relatives followed home from a tribal casino and robbed at gunpoint. Joke about it all you want but there is a very real dark side to gaming.
I've worked in the industry myself at a fairly high level. But a lot of the stuff you hear is only the bad. I've actually had some pretty brutal experiences myself, I once had someone try to run me off the road on my way home from work after I had thrown them out a couple of hours earlier.

But, I've also seen people win huge amounts of money, walk outside and hand a homeless person a couple of hundred dollars. And a mother who bought in her adult child with Down's who just loved to be in a casino. They would sit at the cheapest slot machine in the place, and the girl would play for hours with a huge smile on her face.

molsonmuscle360 is offline  
Old
05-08-2013, 07:05 PM
  #490
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pacific NW
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,174
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by aqib View Post
It only sat 13,730 for hockey so I don't know how viable it would have been. Yes Winnipeg has 15,015 but obviously hockey is bigger up there. Sure the Islanders will have about 14,500 but they can offset that with a gigantic cable deal.... Also, if they were there they would be in the oldest arena in the NHL and we would be talking about how they are in an antiquated arena and they need to move.
Yep. 13,730 & easy enough to pack in another 2000+ seats if you wanted.... and sure, theyd have had a new arena. On the Fair Grounds, Downtown or Scottsdale long ago. Or are you suggesting Im thinking their still playing there? 1996-2013. Did I say that? Did you infer that from my post? Go back & read it again. "Olde Tyme Hockey". Return to yesterday in order to sell seats while building a brighter tomorrow. Works a treat. Just ask the Leafs & MLSE about that one.

Killion is online now  
Old
05-08-2013, 07:10 PM
  #491
rt
Usually Incorrect
 
rt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Rarely Sober
Country: United States
Posts: 41,461
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
So many posts...

In 20 words or less, is there anything new???
No.

Pastor group in Glendale to "finalize" purchase proposal - still has to agree on lease.

Gosbee group in Glendale to "finalize" purchase proposal - still has to agree on lease.

Gary in Glendale to work with Gosbee group and possibly Pastor group (unconfirmed).

Glendale still unlikely to offer AMF large enough to enter into agreement with either group.

rt is offline  
Old
05-08-2013, 07:24 PM
  #492
KevyD
Make It 30!!!!
 
KevyD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Niagara
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,998
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
No.

Pastor group in Glendale to "finalize" purchase proposal - still has to agree on lease.

Gosbee group in Glendale to "finalize" purchase proposal - still has to agree on lease.

Gary in Glendale to work with Gosbee group and possibly Pastor group (unconfirmed).

Glendale still unlikely to offer AMF large enough to enter into agreement with either group.
Nice summary. Thank you.

What a mess.



Where were these groups when the (Jamieson) AMF was available???

KevyD is online now  
Old
05-08-2013, 07:31 PM
  #493
Whileee
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 7,748
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post
Sarcasm noted....

This casino will be located directly across from a high school.

I've also had relatives followed home from a tribal casino and robbed at gunpoint. Joke about it all you want but there is a very real dark side to gaming.
I'm completely with you on this, TL. I think a casino located in a residential area, and especially across from a high school, would be a blight. I also agree with your perspectives on gaming in general.

Whileee is offline  
Old
05-08-2013, 07:32 PM
  #494
blues10
Registered User
 
blues10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,030
vCash: 500
Joyce Clarke didn't like the idea of a Casino near Westgate because of a fear of increased drunk driving

blues10 is offline  
Old
05-08-2013, 07:35 PM
  #495
McRib
2nd Rate Fan
 
McRib's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Saskatoon
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,420
vCash: 500
Both of these groups are only in the running for the 300M over 20 years that the JIG got offered by the previous council and Mayor of Glendale. They don't care about the city.

Once it becomes clear that the JIG deal is long gone, they leave quicker than a underage frat kid when the cops roll up.

Gary will be left holding the bag and the only person left will be PKP and the Quebecor group.

Their only goal will be to limit the losses on the club so that the AMF gives them a few million profit.

McRib is offline  
Old
05-08-2013, 07:35 PM
  #496
rt
Usually Incorrect
 
rt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Rarely Sober
Country: United States
Posts: 41,461
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
Where were these groups when the (Jamieson) AMF was available???
I believe JIG had exclusivity. Also there is speculation that the new CBA has made the whole thing a little bit more attractive. If we had the new CBA and the old COG, this might actually get closed. But we don't. We've got Captain Deer Antler Spray. The circus continues.

Of course, the previous AMF might've bankrupt the city, so...haha. Who knows?

rt is offline  
Old
05-08-2013, 07:36 PM
  #497
rt
Usually Incorrect
 
rt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Rarely Sober
Country: United States
Posts: 41,461
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blues10 View Post
Joyce Clarke didn't like the idea of a Casino near Westgate because of a fear of increased drunk driving
Aren't all reservations "dry"?

rt is offline  
Old
05-08-2013, 07:38 PM
  #498
Whileee
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 7,748
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
Nice summary. Thank you.

What a mess.



Where were these groups when the (Jamieson) AMF was available???
This is a very good question (which I have been posing, too).

I can think of two reasons:

1) These current suitors aren't all that serious, but they are serving a purpose for the NHL in looking like it is making a full effort at a local sale. In return, perhaps they are hoping for a favourable relationship with the NHL in return for this effort. Any group that includes the IEH group should include this possible motive, I think.

2) The current suitors are looking for an angle for future relocation or flipping the franchise for a profit. They might not have been interested in being locked into a long-term lease in Glendale, but might be enticed with a lease that has a relatively easy "out clause", which would suit their real plans.

Another option is that they are clueless and incompetent and having been sitting on the sidelines waiting for the lease terms from Glendale to get progressively less favorable.

Whileee is offline  
Old
05-08-2013, 07:42 PM
  #499
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pacific NW
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,174
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
Nice summary.
... yesss, most


Killion is online now  
Old
05-08-2013, 07:42 PM
  #500
Whileee
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 7,748
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
I believe JIG had exclusivity. Also there is speculation that the new CBA has made the whole thing a little bit more attractive. If we had the new CBA and the old COG, this might actually get closed. But we don't. We've got Captain Deer Antler Spray. The circus continues.

Of course, the previous AMF might've bankrupt the city, so...haha. Who knows?
I don't recall anything about Jamison having exclusivity. Do you have any source indicating that this was the case? If the COG did give him exclusivity for more than a year while he was putting his "investment group" together, then that would go on the first page of the list of incompetent things they have done in this saga.

Whileee is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:01 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.