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Isles fans quote Sharks fans blaming Nabby for playoff failures

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05-08-2013, 04:19 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
I thought I read somewhere that the Isles are loosening the strings on their wallet next year?
If that's true then Lu would be the perfect target. I just don't believe it until Wang actually loosens the purse strings.

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05-08-2013, 04:52 PM
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The issue with Nabby was that he could never make the big save when we needed it.

We'd be dominating but have nothing to show for it on the scoreboard... The next shift, he lets in a weak wrister from the top of the faceoff circle and all the sudden we're down 1-0, despite outshooting 12-5... THen we start squeezing the stick and the whole game changes..

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05-08-2013, 04:58 PM
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Playoff choking during that era was a team-wide effort, and I actually think Nabby was way less of a problem than the skaters.

He may have lost us one or two games with a sub-par performance (I distinctly remember one really weak goal in the WCF against Chicago), but he never lost us a series. The team in front of him was more to blame for overall disappointments.

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05-08-2013, 04:59 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by niccolo19 View Post
May 15 2002 playoffs game 7 vs Colorado 1-0
Game 6 May 17th 2006 vs oilers 2-0

I mean deciding games shut outs sorry not game 7 shutouts
Toskala was the Sharks goalie in the 2006 playoffs.

Nabby was never a terrible playoff goalie. However too many times he allowed a soft goal at the wrong time. Didnt steal many playoff games either.

From what Ive seen of the Pitt-NY series he was great in Game 2 and 4 but absolutely brutal in the other 2 games.

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05-08-2013, 05:00 PM
  #30
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My issue with Nabby was that he always seemed to give up that one weak goal that would just break a team's back.

The opposing point of view would be that the Sharks were never able to pick him up after he made a mistake.

His 5 hole always killed me too. Not sure if he has gotten better with his stickwork, but he always seemed to let in too many goals that way.

I have always wondered how things would have turned out if we kept Kipper instead of Nabby.

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05-08-2013, 05:13 PM
  #31
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I actually thought Nabby's play against Dallas put us in the 3-0 hole that we were in that year. Only in the '04 playoffs did he actually have, what I'd call, a superb postseason

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05-08-2013, 05:18 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by USF Shark View Post
I actually thought Nabby's play against Dallas put us in the 3-0 hole that we were in that year. Only in the '04 playoffs did he actually have, what I'd call, a superb postseason
He could have played better definitely but maybe if they finished off the Flames in 5 or 6 like they were supposed to the team wouldnt have been so flat in the first 3 games.

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05-08-2013, 05:25 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by niccolo19 View Post
This Islander fan did some research however. Sharks lack of scoring seem to be the main culprit. Can some of you try to look at this objectively and agree? I understand that he did give up a couple softies that demoralized the team here and there, but the stats speak for themselves.

p.s. He is playing his worst playoff hockey ever right now and we are still tied 2-2.
Pretty much every thing you said here is spot on.

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05-08-2013, 05:33 PM
  #34
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I loved Nabby and, to hell with the pick, I hope you win in 6 against Pens.

Nabby's faults in the post season were as much the skaters as himself. I cannot really point to an individual game where he stole the game, let alone a series, but he was always good enough to win if SJ had some offense. Your Isles team is a lot of fun to watch and Grabner and Tavares are very exciting young players that you're lucky to get to see all the time. I'm digging your comeback in game 4 and the energy the team plays with.
Go get em!

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05-08-2013, 05:57 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharklife25 View Post
The issue with Nabby was that he could never make the big save when we needed it.
I disagree. Nabby made many many big saves during his time here.

The problem was that it didn't matter how many saves he made because, unless he posted a shutout in every single game (with a much worse defense than they have now), the Sharks were destined to lose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharklife25 View Post
We'd be dominating but have nothing to show for it on the scoreboard... The next shift, he lets in a weak wrister from the top of the faceoff circle and all the sudden we're down 1-0, despite outshooting 12-5... THen we start squeezing the stick and the whole game changes..
It happens to every goalie. Niemi is no exception. In fact, the wristers that beat him are some of the weakest I've ever seen an NHL goalie give up.

The difference is that the 2010 Hawks were dominant enough in every other facet of the game to cover up for his weaknesses. The Sharks (this series notwithstanding) have not been.

The Sharks appear to have learned to adapt their defense to make Niemi appear less vulnerable (and to his credit, Niemi has improved a great deal himself). But for those who have a short memory, Niemi has hardly been a rock for the Sharks in the playoffs in his time here.

Prior to this year, Niemi played in 4 series for the Sharks......pulled multiple times and could barely finish a game against the Kings, the 3-0 collapse against the Wings, run out of the WCF by the Canucks in 5, and the 5-game ousting by the Blues last year matching the fastest postseason exit in franchise history.

Going into this postseason, Niemi was 9-13 with a 3.04 GAA and .899 SV% in his time with the Sharks and had lost 11 of his previous 14 playoff starts.

No, not all his fault, to be sure......but those aren't exactly stellar stats either.

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05-08-2013, 05:59 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by cholewhat View Post
Overall, he was never brutal in the playoffs that I can recall. I think the biggest knocks were the softies (to go along with some brilliance), and that he never was able to take his game to another level in the postseason.
I agree. I'd add that DW made a comment that Nabber needed to be a better team player.

I also think Nemo is getting us better goal tending right now.

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05-08-2013, 06:00 PM
  #37
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Is anybody that isn't from a certain Pennsylvanian region not rooting for the Islanders? The team is fun to watch, everybody hates the Penguins, Tavares is awesome, everybody hates the Penguins, they're a hard working team that battles every night, everybody hates the Penguins. Do I need to say any more? Good luck Isles.

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05-08-2013, 06:02 PM
  #38
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Nabby was totally brutal 1 on 1, which is why he had a terrible shootout record. Niemi is like the opposite of that.

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05-08-2013, 06:04 PM
  #39
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Uh huh, and the quotes you speak of?

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05-08-2013, 06:14 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USF Shark View Post
I actually thought Nabby's play against Dallas put us in the 3-0 hole that we were in that year. Only in the '04 playoffs did he actually have, what I'd call, a superb postseason
When the team isn't scoring, everything else gets magnified.

In six games against the Stars, the Sharks scores in regulation were 2, 2, 1, 1, 2, and 1.

In six games against the Ducks in 2009, the Sharks scored in regulation were 0, 2, 4, 0, 2, 1.

In 13 playoff games from 2008-2010, the Sharks scored more than 2 goals in regulation....once.

Without watching the games, without even knowing who the team is, much less who the goaltender is.....pretty easy to assume that any goaltender on such a team would be on the losing end of that ledger more often than not.

And THAT, more than Niemi's play, has been the difference in this series.

In this postseason against the Canucks, the Sharks scored 3, 2, 5, and 3 goals in regulation. If the Sharks had done THAT in 2008 against Dallas, all other things being equal, they would've been up 3 games to 1 going home for Game 5 with a trip to the WCF on the line.

Conversely, if the Sharks had scored the same 2, 2, 1, 1 as they did in Dallas, the Sharks would be trailing the Canucks 3 games to 1 right now, or possibly even swept out already....and all the talk would be how Niemi can't get the big save.


It's amazing what scoring 15 goals over 4 games instead of just 6 or 7 can do for a goaltender's reputation.


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05-08-2013, 06:21 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by juantimer View Post
Nabby was totally brutal 1 on 1, which is why he had a terrible shootout record. Niemi is like the opposite of that.
This part is very true.

Niemi is better along the ice than Nabokov. Of that there is no doubt.

Nabokov was better with his glove and blocker, had better reactions, moved better from post to post, and was better with his rebound control.....but in the separate universe that is the shootout, where rebounds are irrelevant and most of the players are going to deke and go low (or get in so tight that it's much harder to elevate) Niemi's skills are much better suited. Plus Niemi doesn't do that dumb stupid poke-check.

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05-08-2013, 06:26 PM
  #42
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When you're afraid you're gonna get scored on every time you make a mistake you don't tend to score as often. The Sharks trust Niemi and it shows.

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05-08-2013, 06:38 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJGoalie32 View Post
I disagree. Nabby made many many big saves during his time here.

The problem was that it didn't matter how many saves he made because, unless he posted a shutout in every single game (with a much worse defense than they have now), the Sharks were destined to lose.
I still can't believe people blamed him for the loss to Anaheim the Pres Trophy year, where he posted like a 1.5 GAA. Nabby had plenty of clutch saves, ones that kept us in plenty of games that we went to lose anyway (like the unreal save on Richards), and he did let in occasional softies, but the team had plenty of other problems keeping them from going further all those years (like a consistently disappearing PP).

The (so far) functional powerplay is definitely what makes me think this year might be different than the past however many it's been.

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05-08-2013, 07:06 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
When you're afraid you're gonna get scored on every time you make a mistake you don't tend to score as often. The Sharks trust Niemi and it shows.
You don't think the same works in reverse for goaltenders?

That when you know your offense isn't going to score you become terrified of making even the slightest mistake because you know that any mistake you make is going to cost you a game and the series? That anything short of absolute perfection is going to be a loss? That if you do make any mistake at all, nobody else on offense or defense is going to make up for it?

As anything with team sports, there is a combination. The two fears can feed off each other.

But as I have commented in any number of threads previously, I think the Sharks had many many other far more relevant factors contributing to their offensive woes in the playoffs than who their goaltender was.

No goaltender is perfect. All goaltenders make mistakes. As I pointed out earlier, given that it has taken 5 postseason series with the Sharks to get his SV% over .900, Niemi is hardly making fewer mistakes. It's just that, in this series (thanks in no small part to a struggling undisciplined Canucks team), the Sharks are finally scoring more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
The Sharks trust Niemi and it shows.
Actually, I see the opposite being true.

The way that every forward and defender in the defensive zone desperately dives in front of every shot tells me they don't trust Niemi to stop those shots himself. Nor should they.

If the puck gets across the slot for a one-timer or if an opposing forward gets time and space in the high slot to elevate his shot, it's going in. Almost without fail. Niemi doesn't stop those with any regularity. Until this season, I didn't think he was even capable of it. The Sharks players are doing everything they can to take away those shots and diving in front of those shots knowing that, if it gets through, it's a goal.

Nabokov could stop at least some of those. Nabby wouldn't have given up that 3rd goal by Edler last night, for example. Not all the time (uncontested shots from the slot can be tough for any goalie) but at least he was capable of robbing people....which I suppose just made it seem worse the few times he didn't.

The problem for Nabby was that he was more susceptible to tips and screens than Niemi is. Nabby could stop more pucks that he could see and react to, but he became much more vulnerable when his vision was impaired by traffic.

Both goalies have their flaws, both mistakes count the same on the scoreboard. However, mistakes are less costly when your team scores 5 goals for rather than 1.

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05-08-2013, 07:21 PM
  #45
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If that's true then Lu would be the perfect target. I just don't believe it until Wang actually loosens the purse strings.
They would have 10 million going to Luongo and Dipietro through 2021. (Luongo is a UFA after 2022).

Loosening purse strings maybe, but that is still a tough pill to swallow for that long.

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05-08-2013, 07:24 PM
  #46
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Biggest problem with Nabby was that he had a piss poor additude. He wasn't a very good teammate.

People tend to forget that he constantly gave his teammates these stares as if the puck going in the net was their fault.

I remember in a post game interview he started blaming Vlasic for not blocking a shot that he let in via 5 hole.

Forget the stats. He was a ****** teammate, and its clear that the team didn't want to play in front of him anymore. Much less win a cup with him.

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05-08-2013, 07:48 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by SJGoalie32 View Post
You don't think the same works in reverse for goaltenders?

That when you know your offense isn't going to score you become terrified of making even the slightest mistake because you know that any mistake you make is going to cost you a game and the series? That anything short of absolute perfection is going to be a loss? That if you do make any mistake at all, nobody else on offense or defense is going to make up for it?

The way that every forward and defender in the defensive zone desperately dives in front of every shot tells me they don't trust Niemi to stop those shots himself. Nor should they.

If the puck gets across the slot for a one-timer or if an opposing forward gets time and space in the high slot to elevate his shot, it's going in. Almost without fail. Niemi doesn't stop those with any regularity. Until this season, I didn't think he was even capable of it. The Sharks players are doing everything they can to take away those shots and diving in front of those shots knowing that, if it gets through, it's a goal.
I really dont want a goalie that is that mentally soft that he is paranoid about his team not scoring. Every goalie out there should be thinking they are going to give up 0 goals. They certainly shouldnt be going out there thinking that its ok to give up 3 goals because hist team will score 4.

I dont think the additional blocked shots have anything to do with faith in their goaltender. Its more of a system switch having to do with coaching as well as the desire of the goaltender. Nabby would throw a conniption fit if someone screened him while trying to block a shot.

I think the biggest issue we had with Nabby is that we never felt like he could steal us a series or carry up through a postseason. He was a good goalie, but thats all he ever was, just a good goalie. Never much better, never much worse. Made most of the saves he should (Gave up a softy 5 hole every once in awhile), but he never made the amazing saves.

While its possible this is because mechanically and positionally, he was fantastic, so spectacular saves were just technically impossible, but I doubt it. Nabby looked like a goalie, played like everyone think a goalie is supposed to play. Niemi looks like a clod out there. He had a thus huge awkward looking head. He looks like he is stumbling around out there but whatever he is doing, he gives me the feeling that the sharks always have a chance.

You are completely right. The reason the sharks lost most of those playoff games is because their scoring didnt come through. But thats how the playoffs are, you cannot always rely on scoring your way to wins. Your goaltender needs to put up 0, 1, 2 goals per game.

2012: Quick 1.41 GAA .946SV
2011: Thomas 1.98 GAA .940SV
2010: Niemi 2.63 GAA .910SV
2009 MAF 2.67GAA .912SV
2008 Osgood 1.55 GAA .930SV

In Nabbys last 4 years with the teams in the playoffs, he posted .920, .907 .890 .907 save %. Very bleh, nothing to write home about, certainly not the type of numbers that is going to carry a team to the cup. It may be numbers that can get an amazing offensive team to the cup, but I wouldnt point the finger completely at the offense with those type of average numbers.

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05-08-2013, 07:59 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Wedontneedroads View Post
My issue with Nabby was that he always seemed to give up that one weak goal that would just break a team's back.

The opposing point of view would be that the Sharks were never able to pick him up after he made a mistake.

His 5 hole always killed me too. Not sure if he has gotten better with his stickwork, but he always seemed to let in too many goals that way.

I have always wondered how things would have turned out if we kept Kipper instead of Nabby.
Last night in the first period we scored and seconds later nabby would give up a bad one, this happened twice. The place was going crazy and was straight up electric and he would let in a **** goal.

Luongo does kind of make sense, but I don't think it will happen. I know many isles fans are really hoping for Bernier. We'll see, as many teams are looking to pick up a quality goaltender

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05-08-2013, 08:03 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by The Great 88 View Post
Is anybody that isn't from a certain Pennsylvanian region not rooting for the Islanders? The team is fun to watch, everybody hates the Penguins, Tavares is awesome, everybody hates the Penguins, they're a hard working team that battles every night, everybody hates the Penguins. Do I need to say any more? Good luck Isles.
Thanks! Yes I know all of north america is basically on our side,

..besides those warped small-minded arrogant folks in western pennsylvania

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05-08-2013, 08:13 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by ieglover View Post
I really dont want a goalie that is that mentally soft that he is paranoid about his team not scoring. Every goalie out there should be thinking they are going to give up 0 goals. They certainly shouldnt be going out there thinking that its ok to give up 3 goals because hist team will score 4.

I dont think the additional blocked shots have anything to do with faith in their goaltender. Its more of a system switch having to do with coaching as well as the desire of the goaltender. Nabby would throw a conniption fit if someone screened him while trying to block a shot.

I think the biggest issue we had with Nabby is that we never felt like he could steal us a series or carry up through a postseason. He was a good goalie, but thats all he ever was, just a good goalie. Never much better, never much worse. Made most of the saves he should (Gave up a softy 5 hole every once in awhile), but he never made the amazing saves.

While its possible this is because mechanically and positionally, he was fantastic, so spectacular saves were just technically impossible, but I doubt it. Nabby looked like a goalie, played like everyone think a goalie is supposed to play. Niemi looks like a clod out there. He had a thus huge awkward looking head. He looks like he is stumbling around out there but whatever he is doing, he gives me the feeling that the sharks always have a chance.

You are completely right. The reason the sharks lost most of those playoff games is because their scoring didnt come through. But thats how the playoffs are, you cannot always rely on scoring your way to wins. Your goaltender needs to put up 0, 1, 2 goals per game.

2012: Quick 1.41 GAA .946SV
2011: Thomas 1.98 GAA .940SV
2010: Niemi 2.63 GAA .910SV
2009 MAF 2.67GAA .912SV
2008 Osgood 1.55 GAA .930SV

In Nabbys last 4 years with the teams in the playoffs, he posted .920, .907 .890 .907 save %. Very bleh, nothing to write home about, certainly not the type of numbers that is going to carry a team to the cup. It may be numbers that can get an amazing offensive team to the cup, but I wouldnt point the finger completely at the offense with those type of average numbers.
Nabby's strength was reading the play. He cheated because of that and that is what gave up those 5hole and shortside goals. Nemo doesn't cheat, but he isn't athletic and isn't in the same universe for reading the play. Nemo is bigger and covers low better than Nabby did as Nabby did have a minor fault in stance.

And SJgoalie32 is right, the failures were far more attributable to scoring failures than Nabby himself. Of all of Nabby's series, the one where he fell hardest was Calgary where he got off his angles for a couple of games and did not adjust quickly enough to what Calgary was doing. His biggest success was dueling Roy in the Colorado series.


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