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Phoenix LXXVI: Renaissance Men

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Old
05-08-2013, 07:45 PM
  #501
blues10
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
Aren't all reservations "dry"?
I don't know. Clarke brought it up at a council meeting that the casino would increase drunk driving.

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05-08-2013, 07:49 PM
  #502
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
This is a very good question...
Quite possible Gosbee was involved with Hulsizer & or Jamison...

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05-08-2013, 07:49 PM
  #503
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
I don't recall anything about Jamison having exclusivity. Do you have any source indicating that this was the case? If the COG did give him exclusivity for more than a year while he was putting his "investment group" together, then that would go on the first page of the list of incompetent things they have done in this saga.
I recall hearing that somewhere. The league entered a purchase agreement with the JIG around this time last year. May 19th I believe. There was a pretty big news conference announcing it. Then Jamison worked to gather the funds and investors to make the purchase work, but failed to do so by the January 31st deadline.

I don't know if the CoG had exclusivity... But the last council was pretty buddy-buddy with Bettman. I also don't think that they really could've negotiated a lease with anyone else first, especially if the league wouldn't have approved Glendale's choice.

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05-08-2013, 07:55 PM
  #504
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Quite possible Gosbee was involved with Hulsizer & or Jamison...
Yeah, that too.

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05-08-2013, 07:59 PM
  #505
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
This is a very good question (which I have been posing, too).

I can think of two reasons:

1) These current suitors aren't all that serious, but they are serving a purpose for the NHL in looking like it is making a full effort at a local sale. In return, perhaps they are hoping for a favourable relationship with the NHL in return for this effort. Any group that includes the IEH group should include this possible motive, I think.
For Gosbee and IEH, yes. They seem to be doing it for something else. Pastor came out of left field, and it seems the NHL is keeping him at arms length. Gosbee seems to be the chosen group at this point, given that he was going to go to the meeting Tuesday.

Quote:
2) The current suitors are looking for an angle for future relocation or flipping the franchise for a profit. They might not have been interested in being locked into a long-term lease in Glendale, but might be enticed with a lease that has a relatively easy "out clause", which would suit their real plans.
While re-location is a possibility, where would the NHL allow them to go where they could make some money? I've got to figure Toronto 2 is out because the other NHL owners will want to split the high expansion fee amongst themselves. Other than T2, what other city would get a really high sale price? Seattle? Houston? Kansas City? Saskatoon? Will any of them get a lot more than $200 million (figure $170 mil sale price plus loses from a few years in Glendale) that would make the deal feasible? I don't know.

Quote:
Another option is that they are clueless and incompetent and having been sitting on the sidelines waiting for the lease terms from Glendale to get progressively less favorable.
This can't ever be discounted in this fiasco.

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05-08-2013, 08:13 PM
  #506
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
Using that absurd logic, it would be to the COG's distinct financial disadvantage for the Jobing.com to have more events and more tenants, because they would end up having to pay the increased operating costs for the additional events without any offset from the increased revenue.
... And that's how you get an A in Clarkonomics. More events don't generate *any* revenue, just additional costs. Arena managers are supposed to approach booking like golf- the lower number the better. And apparently, maintaining a plain tile floor in the desert is much more costly than maintaining a slab of ice.

Glendale is practicing the future of economics! Everyone else is stuck using backward, antiquated, second millennium economics. Ice melts faster in the desert than in colder climates , dumping more money into something than you get back out of it is an unsound investment , an arena completely booked with events is significantly more profitable than an arena empty with all but a hockey team that hasn't made money in 17 years Glendale will be the shining beacon like other places that defied conventions with a vision of the future. Like the lush, forested Easter Island!



Or the expansive Aral Sea!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mungman View Post
Taken at face value what Clarkie is saying to me is the CoG's best course of action is to raze the arena, sell the land and continue paying the construction bond. The other option is to shovel good money after bad in the Clarkonomic world.
Indeed. Someone look at the original financing deal. See if there is an out clause for Glendale if the arena gets mysteriously destroyed. Might it be more worthwhile for Glendale to try and destroy the arena 'by accident', trying to cover their tracks (which will be comically bad, knowing them) to try and collect the insurance money on it?

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Originally Posted by knorthern knight View Post
WRONG; it is very important to the NET COST of operating an arena. Consider that KC's Sprint Center is doing so well that they don't want an NHL/NBA team. They're making a NET PROFIT. Instead of KC paying the arena manager, the arena manager is paying KC a share of the profits. THAT is how it's supposed to be done folks.
Apparently, in the minds of some, the only thing that makes an arena profitable is a sports team. Do they think arena managers are eating up losses putting on concerts? Are the dog & pony shows just for the kids? Of course, in their mind, Kansas City probably doesn't exist, or exists in the same category as Metropolis, Gotham City, and Mayberry.

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Originally Posted by Llama19 View Post
Marry!...Darin Pastor looks to finalize bid for Phoenix Coyotes

To quote:

"California investment executive Darin Pastor will be in Phoenix tomorrow to finalize his group’s proposed bid to buy the Phoenix Coyotes and keep them in Glendale.

Glendale spokeswoman Julie Frisoni said she was not aware of planned meetings with Pastor, but added the NHL also may be handling their logistics."
So, Pastor thinks he can still get in while the Great Gosbee & the NHL are reformulating their strategy? And Pastor will be in... Phoenix? Does junior know the city he is supposed to be negotiating with is Glendale? LOL at the Glendale spokeswoman not knowing anything about Pastor's intention to meet. Real serious bid there, perhaps the most serious we've seen in this entire saga.

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05-08-2013, 08:21 PM
  #507
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So, Pastor thinks he can still get in while the Great Gosbee & the NHL are reformulating their strategy? And Pastor will be in... Phoenix? Does junior know the city he is supposed to be negotiating with is Glendale? LOL at the Glendale spokeswoman not knowing anything about Pastor's intention to meet. Real serious bid there, perhaps the most serious we've seen in this entire saga.
[/QUOTE]

Well, when Mr. Pastor first came on the scene he mentioned he was following this for the past 6 months. Now that's a little over 7 months now, surely we can cut him some slack. He's got a lot of catching up to do

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05-08-2013, 08:44 PM
  #508
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Avalanche reportedly interested in Coyotes' Tippett

To quote:

"Well, the line is already forming. Denver Post columnist Mike Chambers called [Dave] Tippett a potential “home-run hire” who has already been discussed for the Colorado Avalanche post. The Avs fired Joe Sacco after a third straight season without a playoff berth.

Tippett has repeatedly made it plain he wants to remain in Phoenix, where he and his wife, Wendy, just built a home. But the Coyotes’ continued ownership saga, and the low-budget restraints it has placed on him and soon-to-be free agent GM Don Maloney over the past four seasons have reached a boiling point because both are tired of entering each season with an undermanned roster."

Source: http://www.foxsportsarizona.com/nhl/...25&feedID=9050

This is the song that does not end...

Fare thee well!

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05-08-2013, 09:06 PM
  #509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Llama19 View Post
Avalanche reportedly interested in Coyotes' Tippett

To quote:

"Well, the line is already forming. Denver Post columnist Mike Chambers called [Dave] Tippett a potential “home-run hire” who has already been discussed for the Colorado Avalanche post. The Avs fired Joe Sacco after a third straight season without a playoff berth.

Tippett has repeatedly made it plain he wants to remain in Phoenix, where he and his wife, Wendy, just built a home. But the Coyotes’ continued ownership saga, and the low-budget restraints it has placed on him and soon-to-be free agent GM Don Maloney over the past four seasons have reached a boiling point because both are tired of entering each season with an undermanned roster."

Source: http://www.foxsportsarizona.com/nhl/...25&feedID=9050

This is the song that does not end...

Fare thee well!
Colorado would be a good move logistically for Tip, they could keep the house at Silverleaf and Wendy could commute to Denver for the home series! One problem with the Lanche-lack of talent! There is a reason why they finished last! Duchene and oreilly are playing for team canada and to this point in the tourney have shown Tip little to be excited about! Edmonton would kill to have him, but I seriously doubt Wendy or Tip would want to spend their winters there after having previously been in Houston, LA, Dallas and PHX! Do you see a trend? They have gotten used to the tropics and do not want to return to the tundra! Minnesota, however would be a possibility as they have a home and family there, now it would be up to Leipold to recognize that Yeo is a liability and it is time to bring in Maloney and Tip to replace Fletcher and his hand picked rookie coach!

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05-08-2013, 09:13 PM
  #510
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Originally Posted by mesamonster View Post
Colorado would be a good move logistically for Tip, they could keep the house at Silverleaf and Wendy could commute to Denver for the home series! One problem with the Lanche-lack of talent! There is a reason why they finished last! Duchene and oreilly are playing for team canada and to this point in the tourney have shown Tip little to be excited about! Edmonton would kill to have him, but I seriously doubt Wendy or Tip would want to spend their winters there after having previously been in Houston, LA, Dallas and PHX! Do you see a trend? They have gotten used to the tropics and do not want to return to the tundra! Minnesota, however would be a possibility as they have a home and family there, now it would be up to Leipold to recognize that Yeo is a liability and it is time to bring in Maloney and Tip to replace Fletcher and his hand picked rookie coach!
Fletcher isn't going anywhere. One mistaken trade, but a number of home-run acquisitions other GMs would give their eye teeth to have made. Too bad a quality guy like Tippett might get bounced around - just some of the fallout coming from years of mismanagement of this file by ownership.

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05-08-2013, 09:15 PM
  #511
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Originally Posted by Llama19 View Post
Yep. That link there?... Oxygen deprived for sure Llama.


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05-08-2013, 09:25 PM
  #512
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Yep. That link there?... Oxygen deprived for sure Llama.

Space... that makes me think. Could there be a surprise contender for relocation for the Coyotes? Like... Mars? It's a one-way trip so they could only play home games and every visiting team will be stuck there, but budding Clarkonomicists will see no problem in that!

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05-08-2013, 09:31 PM
  #513
Pierce Hawthorne
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Originally Posted by mesamonster View Post
Colorado would be a good move logistically for Tip, they could keep the house at Silverleaf and Wendy could commute to Denver for the home series! One problem with the Lanche-lack of talent! There is a reason why they finished last! Duchene and oreilly are playing for team canada and to this point in the tourney have shown Tip little to be excited about! Edmonton would kill to have him, but I seriously doubt Wendy or Tip would want to spend their winters there after having previously been in Houston, LA, Dallas and PHX! Do you see a trend? They have gotten used to the tropics and do not want to return to the tundra! Minnesota, however would be a possibility as they have a home and family there, now it would be up to Leipold to recognize that Yeo is a liability and it is time to bring in Maloney and Tip to replace Fletcher and his hand picked rookie coach!


You are kidding right?


Duchene has been Canada's best player all tournament while Oreilly has been playing the 4th line.

I mean at least do some research before talking about something you know nothing about.

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Old
05-08-2013, 09:32 PM
  #514
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Yep. That link there?... Oxygen deprived for sure Llama.

Llamas enjoy the altitude!

We are willing pack animals (to a point), but when 'overloaded' we will refuse to move and simply lie down.

Until our 'burden' is lessened, we may spit, hiss, or even kick at their 'owners.'

I am not a number, I am a free llama !

Whoops, lapsed into previous thread...ahem...

Thy fealty is to our lords of the HFB.

Anon!

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05-09-2013, 01:01 AM
  #515
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There is a new council, but nothing has changed yet.

I'm ready to begin laying blame, and looking past this (if it ever ends)

The old council and the NHL really put this council into a terrible spot.

When the dust settles, the blame should be on those two. The other players I see as people being used by the NHL (clowns) or just trying to make a buck off the COG (jamieson) (all suiters now fall into that catagory as well)

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05-09-2013, 03:56 AM
  #516
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Originally Posted by blues10 View Post
Joyce Clarke didn't like the idea of a Casino near Westgate because of a fear of increased drunk driving
Not really wanting to send this further off the track but let me address this.

It's only part of the issue.... but it comes from the perspective that if a casino allows a person to get wasted and then drives off the property onto Glendale streets and kills someone.... who's responsible??

Who pays the costs of cleaning up the mess?? Glendale's taxpayers.

Also... In Arizona, by law, a liquor license holder can be held responsible (all the way up to permanently losing their license) if they didn't take enough steps to prevent something like this from happening. But the reservations aren't subject to state laws (they are considered sovereign nations). You can try taking the tribe to federal court, but that can easily but tossed back at you telling you you have to take it to tribal court. You really think the tribe would shut themselves down???

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05-09-2013, 06:50 AM
  #517
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I don't know. Clarke brought it up at a council meeting that the casino would increase drunk driving.
I find it somewhat hilarious that Clarke appeared to be anti-casino on the grounds that casinos would increase drunk driving.

Let's see, where else do people drink in and around Glendale? How about the Sports and Entertainment District, when there's a hockey game going on?

I thought the whole point of the $300,000,000 subsidy was to keep the hockey team there to save the 3 or 4 bars they have in the parking lot at Westgate. Can't let the bars at Westgate close, right? I mean, it would be a disaster for the city if the bars at Westgate had to close, right?

So the council spends $3 million fighting a losing casino battle in court on the grounds of righteousness to limit drunk driving.... while pledging $300 million to essentially keep a few bars open... which probably won't reduce drunk driving in that area any time soon. Or is drunk driving limited only to people who drink at casinos? I mean, no one who drinks at a hockey game, concert, or nearby Westgate bar would ever even consider driving home drunk, right?

Go ahead and be anti-casino, but at least do it for a better reason.

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05-09-2013, 06:58 AM
  #518
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Where were these groups when the (Jamieson) AMF was available???
I think this is a pretty good indication that these groups aren't at all in it for the long haul. It's either all for show, or they want to bail on Glendale after a few years.

Jamison left no stone unturned when trying to piece together backers for the hockey team when he had the $300 million subsidy in his pocket. If Gosbee et al really had $240 million lying around that they wanted to invest in the Coyotes, they would have found Jamison or vice versa. Jamison was exploring immigration scams for foreign investors to try to raise capital, you think he'd at least call up Gosbee to see if he's interested, especially since Gosbee seems to have the Ice Edge clowns in his posse.

I know Jamison apparently wanted a ridiculous ownership stake (i.e. 25%) for arranging the subsidy, but once he figured out that wasn't going to work, if the Great Gosbee and company were truly interested in Glendale, then Jamison could have and should have rearranged the deal to have Gosbee purchase the team. Jamison wouldn't get 25% ownership, but I'm sure he could have taken a handsome fee of say $1 million for brokering the deal.

That would have been a far better option for everyone involved - Jamison would have $1 million or so instead of the nothing that he now has, and the Gosbee group could have got their hands on the $300 million subsidy.

Everyone must realize the next subsidy package won't be as good as the Jamison one, therefore the only conclusion I can come to is that these new would-be owners want to get their hands on the team in order to move it. Anything they can get to limit the losses in the short term is great, but the team will leave ASAP.

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05-09-2013, 07:15 AM
  #519
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Originally Posted by CGG View Post
I know Jamison apparently wanted a ridiculous ownership stake (i.e. 25%) for arranging the subsidy, but once he figured out that wasn't going to work, if the Great Gosbee and company were truly interested in Glendale, then Jamison could have and should have rearranged the deal to have Gosbee purchase the team. Jamison wouldn't get 25% ownership, but I'm sure he could have taken a handsome fee of say $1 million for brokering the deal.
If that true than ego likely got in the way. It was Jamison deal and if he choose to let it die because he did not want to be moved aside that petty on a whole new level. It more likely that nobody was interested in getting stuck in Glendale for two decades. With serious indication that the city could default at some point and no guarantee that the NHL won't just fill all the juicy market with expansion teams ASAP.

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05-09-2013, 07:27 AM
  #520
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Aren't all reservations "dry"?
Reservations are, but it looks like they make an exception for the casino.

Quote:
While the reservation is considered “dry,” President Ben Shelly has approved alcohol sales at the resort for its potential for revenue generation.
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwor...ire-800-147480

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05-09-2013, 07:34 AM
  #521
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I find it very strange that nothing happened between February 1st, 2013 and April 1st, 2013... that's two months without no potential investor. Now, suddenly everyone wants to buy the Coyotes without a guaranteed AMF as high as Jamison.

There's something fishy going on!

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05-09-2013, 07:43 AM
  #522
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Originally Posted by Slashers98 View Post
I find it very strange that nothing happened between February 1st, 2013 and April 1st, 2013... that's two months without no potential investor. Now, suddenly everyone wants to buy the Coyotes without a guaranteed AMF as high as Jamison.

There's something fishy going on!
Glendale is about to take external bids for the management contract. The management contract is the only way the NHL and buyers can extract subsidies. The only way that would maybe pass the smell test at least. So it either try to weasel out a deal now or GTFO later.

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05-09-2013, 08:57 AM
  #523
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Everyone must realize the next subsidy package won't be as good as the Jamison one, therefore the only conclusion I can come to is that these new would-be owners want to get their hands on the team in order to move it. Anything they can get to limit the losses in the short term is great, but the team will leave ASAP.
Yup.

If it's true that all of these last minute shoppers are popping out of the woodwork to buy the team, you can be assured that Bettman has moved to Plan B. Plan B is likely a local sale with the option to move after a set number of years. It's safe to say that today no one would look at this purchase unless there was a gigantic, never-ending subsidy, or a relocation option. Gosbee might be willing to lose $70 million over five years if he can recoup that with a relocation down the road.

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05-09-2013, 09:21 AM
  #524
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Yup.

If it's true that all of these last minute shoppers are popping out of the woodwork to buy the team, you can be assured that Bettman has moved to Plan B. Plan B is likely a local sale with the option to move after a set number of years. It's safe to say that today no one would look at this purchase unless there was a gigantic, never-ending subsidy, or a relocation option. Gosbee might be willing to lose $70 million over five years if he can recoup that with a relocation down the road.
Well you see, I have difficulties to believe that, because PKP is first on the waiting list (for buying and relocate) since the last two years and he was second on the list before the Thrashers moved to Winnipeg.

Now, if you give an option to move to those jokers, you can be sure that they will move the franchise. You screwed PKP, who, I guess, wont be happy. And with PKP pissed off, you can say "au revoir" to your big expention fee.


Last edited by tarheelhockey: 05-09-2013 at 12:15 PM. Reason: spelling
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05-09-2013, 09:36 AM
  #525
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Well you see, I have difficulties to believe that, because PKP is first on the waiting list (for buying and relocate) since the last two years and he was second on the list before the Thrashers moved to Winnipeg.

Now, if you give an option to move to those jokers, you can be sure that they will move the franchise. You screwed PKP, who, I guess, wont be happy. And with PKP pissed off, you can say "au revoir" to your big expention fee.
Unless you already made a deal with PKP and you have one or two other franchises ready to move once the Yotes mess is sorted out anyway. In this case PKP was told that whatever happen with the Yotes he getting a team at X price. If they can't close locally it the Yotes if by some crazy miracle they pull it off it the next problem child. That how the Thrashers ended up in Winnipeg.


Last edited by tarheelhockey: 05-09-2013 at 12:15 PM.
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