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C Curtis Lazar - Edmonton Oil Kings, WHL (2013, 17th overall, Ottawa)

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Old
05-07-2013, 09:25 AM
  #526
I am the Liquor
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Originally Posted by Hossa View Post
Short-term memory. Fisher was the more physical player at the same age. In his prime in Ottawa, he put up 200 hits several times, many that were physically punishing. Repeated injuries, including to his shoulder, have limited his physical play, but anybody saying Fisher was less physical didn't watch him in Ottawa.
If you want to use "same age" comparisons Lazar had 38 goals in his draft year while Richards had 37. Fisher had 24 I believe. I think Richards is more aggressive than Fisher. He certainly fights more. He is the better comparable for Lazar.

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05-07-2013, 09:29 AM
  #527
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
If you want to use "same age" comparisons Lazar had 38 goals in his draft year while Richards had 37. Fisher had 24 I believe. I think Richards is more aggressive than Fisher. He certainly fights more. He is the better comparable for Lazar.
I wasn't talking about goal scoring or the comparison in general. I was specifically addressing the physicality aspect. But there's no question that at his peak Fisher was a more physical player than Richards has ever been in the NHL.

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05-07-2013, 09:37 AM
  #528
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You are forgetting a lot about Mike Fisher. Don't remember Ottawa's cup run? Year after year, Fisher is the more consistent and effective physical player to Richards. Better fighter, better hitter. He's older now, but he's generally been more effective physically speaking. Richards scores more points. They're assists. He's a play maker. Fisher lives and dies by his shot. It's what makes him special. Who does that sound like? Richards has never been much for screening the goalie on the pp. Fisher used to he a staple in that spot. Fisher is just the correct comparison.
I actually agree with a lot of this time but lazar I think has enough talent that he will not have to live by his shot. Otherwise I do agree.

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05-07-2013, 09:38 AM
  #529
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Originally Posted by Hossa View Post
I wasn't talking about goal scoring or the comparison in general. I was specifically addressing the physicality aspect. But there's no question that at his peak Fisher was a more physical player than Richards has ever been in the NHL.
Fair enough. For hits. But not fights.

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05-07-2013, 09:56 AM
  #530
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I think there's a few guys that play a similar game to Lazar. I used to say Doan, now I would probably say a guy like Derek Stepan is a good comparable. Mike Fisher isn't a bad one, either.

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05-07-2013, 04:54 PM
  #531
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My bro says he sees a lot of Owen Nolan, in his injury free years, in Lazar. I think I agree.

I also like the Doan comparison. I'm not sure about the Richards and Fisher comparisons, although I suppose a hybrid of Richards/Fisher might fit. Don't see the Stepan comparison at all...

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05-07-2013, 05:19 PM
  #532
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05-07-2013, 05:38 PM
  #533
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Originally Posted by 17Kurri View Post
My bro says he sees a lot of Owen Nolan, in his injury free years, in Lazar. I think I agree.

I also like the Doan comparison. I'm not sure about the Richards and Fisher comparisons, although I suppose a hybrid of Richards/Fisher might fit. Don't see the Stepan comparison at all...
Then I think you should watch more Stepan. He's a good skater, good compete level, plays a two-way game, has a good shot, good playmaker, always hangs around the net. Lazar does all those same things.

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05-07-2013, 05:48 PM
  #534
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Originally Posted by KelownaRocketsFan View Post
Would you rather call him a sniper or a two-way forward?
Two way forward to me. Good at both ends of the ice. He could get 55 points a year I would think. I think he would be a really good two way forward who can score timely goals.

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05-07-2013, 06:15 PM
  #535
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
Then I think you should watch more Stepan. He's a good skater, good compete level, plays a two-way game, has a good shot, good playmaker, always hangs around the net. Lazar does all those same things.
Maybe I will...

From the handful of times I've seen him play, though, I haven't seen any semblance of physicality/grit that is a trademark of Lazar.

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05-07-2013, 07:20 PM
  #536
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Richards hits more, fights more and scores more goals than Fisher.
First, I didn't say Fisher scores more goals than Richards. Most of his points are goals, though. Most of Richards are assists. Richards is and always has been primarily a playmaker. That's obviously not true of Lazar.

Also, Fisher is five years older than Richards and short memories are definitely playing a part in this dispute.

Let's look at Richards versus Fisher starting on the fifth season after their drafts. For Richards, there are only five seasons to look at (prior to this lock out shortened year). So we'll do seasons five through ten for both players. We'll have to ditch the first lock out season for Fisher and the season in which he only played twenty four games. We'll just add the next two seasons in their place. This is really going to screw Fisher because it leaves out his best two seasons (one with 24 goals and one with 25 goals).

During that span Richards averaged 26 goals per season and Fisher averaged 20 goals. So yeah, Richards scores more goals. Again, number of goals was never the argument (career-wise Richards scores 23 goals per 82 games and Fisher scores 20 per 82). Most of Fisher's offense is goal scoring. Same can be said of Lazar. Not for Richards, though. Richards is mostly a playmaker.

Fisher averaged 2.2 fights per season and Richards averaged 3.6 a season. That is more fights. One or two more a year. So far in the WHL Curtiz Lazar has averaged 2.5 fights per season. Richards does fight a little bit more than Fisher. I'd argue Fisher is a much more effective fighter, though. He's a stronger player and in my opinion fared better in his bouts than Richards typically has. And if you actually read what I wrote, I didn't claim Fisher was the more frequent fighter. I claimed he was the more effective. I stand by that, despite it's being more qualitative.

When it comes to hits, it's in Fisher's favor, but not but a whole huge ton, or anything. Fisher averaged 162.8 in that span and Richards 124.2. Though, as mentioned already, Fisher has had a handful of 200+ hit seasons. Also, I feel like Richards is a lot lighter in the ass. Fisher is the heavier hitter. To me, Richards is a little more of rat and Fisher is a little more of a truer bruiser. Richards is obviously more offensively talented and has the overall numbers to reflect that. Fisher, though, has a more similar role to Lazar, in my opinion. He's not QBing PPs too frequently, he's more often screening the goalie or trying to quietly creep into the prime scoring areas so he can get that ripper of a shot off.

I don't see Lazar as a PPG player like Richards has been at various times. I don't see him as a pest and I don't see him putting up 40 and 50 assists a year, multiple times in the NHL like Richy.

I do see Lazar having multiple 20-25 goal seasons in the NHL like Fisher. I do see him playing PP and PK and being a face-off whiz. I do see him playing a physical game and sticking up for mates when appropriate. That's Fisher. I just think it's a better comparison.


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05-07-2013, 11:16 PM
  #537
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Can he please fall to the Red Wings?!?

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05-07-2013, 11:38 PM
  #538
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Can he please fall to the Red Wings?!?
I could see Edmonton, Dallas, or Phoenix taking him at #7, #10, or #12.

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05-08-2013, 12:57 AM
  #539
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Even though the Oil Kings are struggling considerably at times against the Winterhawks, Lazar is one player who hasn't looked overwhelmed and has continued to bring it every shift. His stock is rising during this series, imo. And I think he'll likely do great at the combine, too, so anywhere between 7th-12th is where he'll be taken, imo.

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05-08-2013, 01:26 AM
  #540
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
Then I think you should watch more Stepan. He's a good skater, good compete level, plays a two-way game, has a good shot, good playmaker, always hangs around the net. Lazar does all those same things.
Stepan is NOT a good skater! He's a notch below average in NHL standards.

When describing Stepan's skating, I don't even think there is too many people that would say he's an "okay" skater, the majority would use phrases more a long the lines of "he gets by".

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05-08-2013, 05:09 AM
  #541
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
Then I think you should watch more Stepan. He's a good skater, good compete level, plays a two-way game, has a good shot, good playmaker, always hangs around the net. Lazar does all those same things.
Stepan is a bad skater... average at best, that is a pretty well known contention around Rangers fans. When he was drafted and in college he was dreadful along with his rookie year, just this year and last he has began to make improvements.

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05-08-2013, 05:27 AM
  #542
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I wouldn't be suprised to see Edmonton draft him at 7. There would be better players available, though. If Monahan or Lindholm will drop to #7 (this would mean that Carolina picks either Nichushkin or a defenceman at #5) the Oilers shouldn't even think about taking Lazar over them! They should rather trade down to 10-15, get a d-man in that trade and draft Lazar with their later pick, that would be just great!

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05-08-2013, 05:03 PM
  #543
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I don't like the Fisher comparison at all. Don't see it. Stepan is a good comparison in the way he skates and handles the puck but I'd say he plays with more of an edge. Still think the closest comparison is Mike Richards.

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05-08-2013, 05:23 PM
  #544
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
I could see Edmonton, Dallas, or Phoenix taking him at #7, #10, or #12.
Likely

Watching him all season and in the playoffs he is my favourite prospect this year, I just love watching him play.

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05-08-2013, 05:36 PM
  #545
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I don't like the Fisher comparison at all. Don't see it. Stepan is a good comparison in the way he skates and handles the puck but I'd say he plays with more of an edge. Still think the closest comparison is Mike Richards.
Give me a scouting report on Fisher. Or a list of ways in which Lazar is dissimilar.

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05-08-2013, 08:36 PM
  #546
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Lazar looks like a guy that could be there at 13 when the Jets draft. If so, I'm guessing he and Domi might be the two best forwards available.
Anyone see both of these guys that could explain why they might take one over the other?
Thanks.

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05-08-2013, 10:19 PM
  #547
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Lazar looks like a guy that could be there at 13 when the Jets draft. If so, I'm guessing he and Domi might be the two best forwards available.
Anyone see both of these guys that could explain why they might take one over the other?
Thanks.
I doubt Lazar is available at 13 (I agree with rt in that EDM, DAL or PHX will nab him before then), but if he is, I think the Jets draft him over Domi since they seem to value size and grit among their draft picks. Lazar isn't big, but Domi is downright small, and although Domi is pretty gritty, Lazar is much more overpowering with his physicality. I could see the Jets taking Domi though if Lazar is gone

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05-08-2013, 10:54 PM
  #548
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For the Jets and their situation, I would take Domi ahead of Lazar. They have more than enough size with Ladd-Wheeler-Kane-Scheifele, go for the high end potential.

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05-08-2013, 11:35 PM
  #549
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I don't see the hype .. His stats don't stand out at all to me to be considered a top 20 player in the draft. Is there something I'm missing? If so I wanna hear it

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05-08-2013, 11:57 PM
  #550
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I don't see the hype .. His stats don't stand out at all to me to be considered a top 20 player in the draft. Is there something I'm missing? If so I wanna hear it
Actions speak louder than words.

Watch him play.

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