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The 2013 NHL Entry Draft [Part V] From Optimism To Bipolarism

View Poll Results: Pre-Memorial Cup, who do you want?
1st: Barkov, Aleksander [C] 5 2.50%
1st: Drouin, Jonathan [W] 6 3.00%
1st: Jones, Seth [D] 148 74.00%
1st: MacKinnon, Nathan [C/W] 34 17.00%
1st: Nichushkin, Valeri [W] 2 1.00%
1st: Other Player[List Below] 1 0.50%
------------------------------------(Matrix Line)------------------------------------ 19 9.50%
2nd: Burakowsky, Andre [LW] 13 6.50%
2nd: Carrier, William [LW] 3 1.50%
2nd: Dauphin, Laurent [C] 5 2.50%
2nd: Duclair, Anthony [RW] 6 3.00%
2nd: Heatherington, Dillon [D] 5 2.50%
2nd: Klimchuk, Morgan [C] 25 12.50%
2nd: Lehkonen, Artturi [RW] 8 4.00%
2nd: Morin, Samuel [D] 5 2.50%
2nd: Mueller, Mirco [D] 13 6.50%
2nd: Petan, Nicolas [C] 13 6.50%
2nd: Theodore, Shea [D] 20 10.00%
2nd: Zykov, Valentin [LW] 22 11.00%
2nd: Other Player[List Below] 5 2.50%
2nd: Trade it for proven talent 4 2.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 200. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-09-2013, 12:43 AM
  #176
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The big question I have about this video:
Does he really start to talk about our Tyson Barrie or am I just drunk and my hearing is off?
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
Barrie played for Kelowna. It sounded like they were saying something in regard to him being one of the best on the attack with them.
Didn't watch the video but they're probably referring to 2014 draft eligible prospect Tyson Baillie.

Hilarious that he plays for Kelowna as well.

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05-09-2013, 12:48 AM
  #177
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We're all bros here, no need for high school name calling crap.

Also so you don't think I am a Jones homer, I was able to watch game 1 of the Halifax/Baie-Comeau series and game 3 of the Portland/Edmonton series. MacKinnon was the best looking player out of the three (Jones, Drouin, & Mac) by far. Made so many creative plays and was dangerous all night long due to his skating. Jones on the other hand was pretty 'meh' to be honest, but Oil Kings have done a great job shutting him down offensively the whole series. Defensively Jones has looked pretty good with small attention to detail plays, pokechecks, and breakout passes, but he did pull a Phaneuf play and Kings broke out on a 2-on-1 and almost scored.

Drouin just did his moves at times, but was very predictable which made him really easy to read ultimately making him a nonfactor whole game. Again this was just one game and I am recording game 4 of the Hawks/Kings series right now and will watch it tomorrow.

Yup, we all have different opinions and that's the point of coming here to share them. If everyone just agreed with each other it would get boring.

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05-09-2013, 01:11 AM
  #178
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Didn't watch the video but they're probably referring to 2014 draft eligible prospect Tyson Baillie.

Hilarious that he plays for Kelowna as well.
Ha! You might be right. Now that I listen to it again, it sounds like he's talking in the presnet tense. "I don think there's anyone better than..." Origianlly I thought he said "there was anyone better than..." and it sure sounds like Barrie as opposed to Ballie, but now I hear the present tense version. That's a pretty weird coincdence, but I think you're right haha.

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05-09-2013, 10:08 AM
  #179
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Jones played pretty well last night. Made some great reads defensively, better than in Game 3 for sure. With that being said, he also had a couple plays defensively where he lost his man and they almost scored because of it.

His best play came in the 1st period (I think), where he broke up a play on a 3 on 2 Edmonton rush and then led a 2 on 1 back the other way before getting absolutely robbed by Brossoit off a great feed from Petan.

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05-09-2013, 10:14 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
Jones played pretty well last night. Made some great reads defensively, better than in Game 3 for sure. With that being said, he also had a couple plays defensively where he lost his man and they almost scored because of it.

His best play came in the 1st period (I think), where he broke up a play on a 3 on 2 Edmonton rush and then led a 2 on 1 back the other way before getting absolutely robbed by Brossoit off a great feed from Petan.
Petan has been absolutely creating majority of the offense for that line except Leipsic's sick goal in game 3.

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05-09-2013, 11:10 AM
  #181
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Petan has been absolutely creating majority of the offense for that line except Leipsic's sick goal in game 3.
Petan and Leipsic have been the motors for that team all season. I know Rattie is the leading scorer but for me he's 3rd fiddle on that team offensively.

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05-09-2013, 06:31 PM
  #182
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Can somebody who follows the WHL closely comment on Jones playing on a pretty stacked team? Jones was tied for 8th on his team in points, 2nd for defensemen. Reason I say this is people have compared his offensive production to that of a Doughty but Drew led his team in scoring before, and was 3rd the other year while leading all defensemen. Mac/Drouin obviously play with talent, can't fault a player for that but they are without a doubt the engine, can you say the same with Jones? Worries me because he's a year older than Mac, Jones will be 19 when he laces them up for the Avs. Would would Mac be doing next year in the Q?

Physical play or the not fighting isn't a big deal at all. Kind of a downer tho, can't tell me getting a 6'4 210 pound D man that isn't willing to hit everything that moves isn't a tad bit disappointing. People mention Nicklas Lidstrom but he was what? 6'1, 195 pounds?

He does appear when he wants too he can really lay the body. Perhaps a few years from now we'll look back at these kind of comments and laugh because he became a bull dozer in the NHL. It'll be different playing vs grown men, and as he ages and gets more stronger he's smart enough from what I've heard to maybe know how he could benefit from that physical aspect.

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05-09-2013, 07:04 PM
  #183
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I have this feeling MacKinnon will be the best player out of this draft.

Im still ok if they choose Seth. I think he'll be very good, but not quite to Mackinnons level.

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05-09-2013, 07:05 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
Petan and Leipsic have been the motors for that team all season. I know Rattie is the leading scorer but for me he's 3rd fiddle on that team offensively.
Ya, I was never impressed by Rattie when I watched the Winterhawks. Sure he has loads of points, but he seems like a complimentary player. Reminds me of the current Stastny, in terms of how they get points. He'll get them, but it won't ever be a spectacular play or goal.

I haven't watched Jones in the playoffs, but is your opinion still the same about bringing Jones up right away if we draft him?

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05-09-2013, 07:09 PM
  #185
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Can somebody who follows the WHL closely comment on Jones playing on a pretty stacked team? Jones was tied for 8th on his team in points, 2nd for defensemen. Reason I say this is people have compared his offensive production to that of a Doughty but Drew led his team in scoring before, and was 3rd the other year while leading all defensemen. Mac/Drouin obviously play with talent, can't fault a player for that but they are without a doubt the engine, can you say the same with Jones? Worries me because he's a year older than Mac, Jones will be 19 when he laces them up for the Avs. Would would Mac be doing next year in the Q?

Physical play or the not fighting isn't a big deal at all. Kind of a downer tho, can't tell me getting a 6'4 210 pound D man that isn't willing to hit everything that moves isn't a tad bit disappointing. People mention Nicklas Lidstrom but he was what? 6'1, 195 pounds?

He does appear when he wants too he can really lay the body. Perhaps a few years from now we'll look back at these kind of comments and laugh because he became a bull dozer in the NHL. It'll be different playing vs grown men, and as he ages and gets more stronger he's smart enough from what I've heard to maybe know how he could benefit from that physical aspect.
What I would say is that you shouldn't look at stats, you should watch him play.

As for how physical he is... he will never be known as a Adam Foote type, but he will never be known as soft either. That frustrates some people who think that all 6'4" defensemen should be extremely physical, which I really don't think has to be the case. Beyond Lidstrom, one of the most promising young defensemen in the NHL is 6'3" 200+ lbs, logs 25 mins a game, plays a high IQ game with a great stick, is a #1 defensemen at the age of 23 (I'd say he was 21-22 when he established that last season), great on the PP, and Jones reminds me of him in some ways... that player Alex Pietrangelo. I think we would all be thrilled to have Jones turn into a player like Pietrangelo, and I think that Jones actually has a higher ceiling than him... In other words he has the potential be a sort of rich man's Pietrangelo.

Another point about the physical side of the game, players that constantly play that game can have a tendency to have injuries that keep them out of the game, don't allow them to play at their best, or limits their minutes. I'm sure that EJ gets his minutes limited when his back is acting up, which is partly caused by his physical play. It isn't always the best style of play for a defensemen that needs to log 30 minutes a game. Then you add that to having Jones, Hejda, Wilson, and in the future Siemens, and you have a defensive core that will never be considered soft.

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05-09-2013, 07:09 PM
  #186
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I have this feeling MacKinnon will be the best player out of this draft.

Im still ok if they choose Seth. I think he'll be very good, but not quite to Mackinnons level.
You may very well be right.

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05-09-2013, 07:11 PM
  #187
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Hockeyprospectus has (not surprisingly) Drouin as #1. Keep in mind this was the site that has Landeskog as #13 or whatever it was.

They like small players with high end puck skill more than the rest of the hockey world does.

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05-09-2013, 07:19 PM
  #188
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Hockeyprospectus has (not surprisingly) Drouin as #1. Keep in mind this was the site that has Landeskog as #13 or whatever it was.

They like small players with high end puck skill more than the rest of the hockey world does.
And advanced stats.

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05-09-2013, 07:24 PM
  #189
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What I would say is that you shouldn't look at stats, you should watch him play.
I'd prefer to not disregard either. Both can be pretty valuable, to overlook one of them would be really ignorant. I haven't got to watch the WHL or Jones live or anything, which is exactly why I ASKED. Why would I completely disregard statistics? Useful tool in any sport, at any level and hearing other peoples opinions who have seen him live along with the numbers could be a pretty nice combo, no? Just saying it would appear he plays on a stacked team, has he greatly benefited from that offensively or has he been the guy pushing it for them this season? Everybody talks about his IQ and his defensive ability but I'm obviously curious about his offense because it's the 1st pick in the draft.

As for the physical stuff like I said it's not a big deal. As you pointed out tons of guys have been great without it. I don't think you should kid yourself tho, if you had an option to make every defensemen in the league as physical as Stevens or Pronger it would be a no brainer. When you see a guy like Jones that has the size, strong on his skates etc. it would be another positive on what appears to be a long list that you could add, I personally hope he can develop that trait a little more. If not, no biggie as we all know you can live without it.

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05-09-2013, 08:06 PM
  #190
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I'd prefer to not disregard either. Both can be pretty valuable, to overlook one of them would be really ignorant. I haven't got to watch the WHL or Jones live or anything, which is exactly why I ASKED. Why would I completely disregard statistics? Useful tool in any sport, at any level and hearing other peoples opinions who have seen him live along with the numbers could be a pretty nice combo, no? Just saying it would appear he plays on a stacked team, has he greatly benefited from that offensively or has he been the guy pushing it for them this season? Everybody talks about his IQ and his defensive ability but I'm obviously curious about his offense because it's the 1st pick in the draft.

As for the physical stuff like I said it's not a big deal. As you pointed out tons of guys have been great without it. I don't think you should kid yourself tho, if you had an option to make every defensemen in the league as physical as Stevens or Pronger it would be a no brainer. When you see a guy like Jones that has the size, strong on his skates etc. it would be another positive on what appears to be a long list that you could add, I personally hope he can develop that trait a little more. If not, no biggie as we all know you can live without it.
How I would rate the Portland's defense this season,

1. Derrick Pouliot (Still do not like him at #8, but he has improved a ton)
2A. Seth Jones (WHL rookie winner)
2B. Troy Rutkowski (overager, so you expect him to be one of the top 2)
4. Tyler Wotherspoon
5. Josh Hanson
6. Others

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05-09-2013, 08:11 PM
  #191
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How I would rate the Portland's defense this season,

1. Derrick Pouliot (Still do not like him at #8, but he has improved a ton)
2A. Seth Jones (WHL rookie winner)
2B. Troy Rutkowski (overager, so you expect him to be one of the top 2)
4. Tyler Wotherspoon
5. Josh Hanson
6. Others
Hmm. Pretty stacked D.
I admittedly only catch the odd WHL game. Any chance that Jones looks better on this stacked D than he really is?
Does Pouliot have influence on his offensive numbers (mainly on the PP or ala Elliott boosting Siemens numbers) ?

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05-09-2013, 08:11 PM
  #192
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Has anyone posted this yet?

Avalanche drafting Seth Jones “Not a slam dunk”
May. 6, 2013 // By Marco Cummings

Avalanche fans were elated to learn that Colorado won the 2013 first overall selection in the 2013 NHL Entry Draft.
Many, including the NHL’s own Central Scouting Bureau, believe that pick will be used to select top junior prospect Seth Jones; a 6-foot-4 defenseman and son of former Denver Nuggets player Popeye Jones.
But that may not be the case, according to an interview with Avalanche amateur scouting director Rick Pracey.
“This is not a slam-dunk decision by any means,” Pracey told The Canadian Press. “Our philosophy has always been best player available.”
According to the report, Pracey thinks Halifax Mooseheads forwards Nathan MacKinnon and Jonathan Drouin are among the players worthy of being selected with the first pick.
Pracey emphasized that considering options outside of Jones was serious business, “It may sound like a cliché or we’re dancing but that isn’t the case. We firmly believe in building our list the right way and we’ll make our decisions based on our core scouting beliefs that we think have served us well in the past.”
But having given up 152 goals in a lockout shortened season, the Avalanche is certainly a team that has holes to fill on the defensive end.
Pracey did say that the Avs are looking at Jones’ defensive upside, “He’s certainly a well-rounded, two-way defenseman that is getting plenty of attention and hype at the top of the board and rightly so.”
No one will truly be certain of what the Avalanche do with the first overall pick until the draft takes place on June 30. But while the son of a former NBA player may not be considered “slam dunk”, Seth Jones could be a “one timer.”

http://milehighsports.com/2013/05/06...t-a-slam-dunk/


Obvious stuff, but good to know that Pracey isn't drooling over Jones like the media is.

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05-09-2013, 08:21 PM
  #193
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Hmm. Pretty stacked D.
I admittedly only catch the odd WHL game. Any chance that Jones looks better on this stacked D than he really is?
Does Pouliot have influence on his offensive numbers (mainly on the PP or ala Elliott boosting Siemens numbers) ?
No, he is one of top 2-3 defensemen on stacked team and looks VERY noticeable in the process.

Pouliot and Jones are not defensive partners in ANY situation. Derrick strictly plays with Rutkowski and Jones strictly plays with Wotherspoon on 5v5, PP, and PK. They do occasionally play for like 10 seconds when Jones is heading off for a change.

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05-09-2013, 08:26 PM
  #194
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I'd prefer to not disregard either. Both can be pretty valuable, to overlook one of them would be really ignorant. I haven't got to watch the WHL or Jones live or anything, which is exactly why I ASKED. Why would I completely disregard statistics? Useful tool in any sport, at any level and hearing other peoples opinions who have seen him live along with the numbers could be a pretty nice combo, no? Just saying it would appear he plays on a stacked team, has he greatly benefited from that offensively or has he been the guy pushing it for them this season? Everybody talks about his IQ and his defensive ability but I'm obviously curious about his offense because it's the 1st pick in the draft.

As for the physical stuff like I said it's not a big deal. As you pointed out tons of guys have been great without it. I don't think you should kid yourself tho, if you had an option to make every defensemen in the league as physical as Stevens or Pronger it would be a no brainer. When you see a guy like Jones that has the size, strong on his skates etc. it would be another positive on what appears to be a long list that you could add, I personally hope he can develop that trait a little more. If not, no biggie as we all know you can live without it.
I'm not saying disregard them, but his stats are plenty good. He is near PPG in the WHL as a rookie. He was a PPG in the WJC. So you don't have to worry about him having good stats, and you can look at his play instead of just relying on the stats. If you can get a chance watch a few of his games and you will see that he has a lot of offensive skill, and that he could have a lot more points than he does. IIRC from a lot of games Jones actually is on the 2nd PP unit, if he did he would probably have a few more points. Jones has good instincts and a very good shot. He is great at changing angles and getting his shot through from the point. IMO his vision is underrated, I don't think he gets enough credit in that area. When you watch a game, the talent level (at both ends of the ice) is clearly evident.

The knock of physicality on Jones is quite simply there because there are not many flaws in his game and you have to find something you don't like. in other words it is a bit overblown, he won't dominate the game physically ever, but if he has to step up, the ability is there.

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05-09-2013, 08:40 PM
  #195
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http://milehighsports.com/2013/05/06...t-a-slam-dunk/

Obvious stuff, but good to know that Pracey isn't drooling over Jones like the media is.
He just wiped off the drool when talking to the media.

They still have to scout the other top prospects even if they know Jones will most likely be the pick.

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05-09-2013, 08:46 PM
  #196
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He just wiped off the drool when talking to the media.

They still have to scout the other top prospects even if they know Jones will most likely be the pick.
No evidence to support that yet. I don't mind Jones but put me in the a-defenseman-that-high-could-bust category of skepticism.

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05-09-2013, 08:56 PM
  #197
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I have this feeling MacKinnon will be the best player out of this draft.

Im still ok if they choose Seth. I think he'll be very good, but not quite to Mackinnons level.
Then again Mackinnon may just turn out to be another borderline 60-70 point getter in the NHL which Avs have few of.

If there was a forward sure of putting up 100 point seasons in the NHL I'd be in favor picking him instead of Jones.

But what's Mackinnon's projection? I see him another Duchene like player maybe, highest point output being PPG which is not worth giving up a potential franchise d-man for.

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05-09-2013, 09:11 PM
  #198
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I'm not saying disregard them, but his stats are plenty good. He is near PPG in the WHL as a rookie. He was a PPG in the WJC. So you don't have to worry about him having good stats, and you can look at his play instead of just relying on the stats. If you can get a chance watch a few of his games and you will see that he has a lot of offensive skill, and that he could have a lot more points than he does. IIRC from a lot of games Jones actually is on the 2nd PP unit, if he did he would probably have a few more points. Jones has good instincts and a very good shot. He is great at changing angles and getting his shot through from the point. IMO his vision is underrated, I don't think he gets enough credit in that area. When you watch a game, the talent level (at both ends of the ice) is clearly evident.

The knock of physicality on Jones is quite simply there because there are not many flaws in his game and you have to find something you don't like. in other words it is a bit overblown, he won't dominate the game physically ever, but if he has to step up, the ability is there.
Yeah I never said his numbers were bad. There great. I don't watch alot of the WHL as I've said so I was curious how he was like 8th on his team in scoring and not even leading defensemen in scoring on his team. Obviously made me curious that maybe his offensive projections and upside could be affected by being on a stacked team, maybe on the next level it won't translate as much. I've seen people compare his numbers to Doughty but like I pointed out earlier Drew was at the top of his teams list or near it in those years.

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Then again Mackinnon may just turn out to be another borderline 60-70 point getter in the NHL which Avs have few of.

If there was a forward sure of putting up 100 point seasons in the NHL I'd be in favor picking him instead of Jones.

But what's Mackinnon's projection? I see him another Duchene like player maybe, highest point output being PPG which is not worth giving up a potential franchise d-man for.
Offense being highly underrated here. What 70 points player do we have? Landeskog certainly isn't a lock for that. Staz hasn't been that guy in forever. Pap put up 67 on the Isles and was on pace for a good year, just like Duchene. We have alot of two way forwards who are great in all area's, which is why I like Mac because of his upside. I don't even think Staz was on pace for 50 points this year, was he? ROR had a good run but started to tail off. Nobody was on pace to be a PPG, PPG players are far more rare nowadays than they use to be. Didn't Toews just do it for the first time? .. Mackinnon has that ability, he could be that guy.

Avalanche lack highly skilled forwards just as much as defense. I'm happy Pracey is looking at all options. I know Jones is as close to a lock as possible probably, but it's nice to know they are thinking BPA and if we take Jones it's because they project him to be the best player and not because of need. Drafting for need #1 overall is asking for trouble.

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05-09-2013, 09:14 PM
  #199
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Then again Mackinnon may just turn out to be another borderline 60-70 point getter in the NHL which Avs have few of.

If there was a forward sure of putting up 100 point seasons in the NHL I'd be in favor picking him instead of Jones.

But what's Mackinnon's projection? I see him another Duchene like player maybe, highest point output being PPG which is not worth giving up a potential franchise d-man for.
I'd put MacKinnon as a potential 80-90 point player in his prime, but some put him as a 70-80 point player. Same as Duchene or maybe a step above is what should be expected out of him.

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05-09-2013, 09:17 PM
  #200
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Mackinnon is Duchene with a better shot and more "puck hunger"

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