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Why does Gillis get a free Pass?

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Old
05-08-2013, 07:09 PM
  #101
NugentHopkinsfan
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
If you really think this you know absolutely nothing about our curent prospects. both Gaunce and Jensen look to be great players, but you have to give them time to develop. Thats the difference. Nonis made a few good picks, then thats it. Gillis seems to have a lot more.
Well it sure is nice to have TWO forward prospects in the system but we have to see how they turn out and Gaunce has third liner at best written all over him.

5 years of drafting and signings we should have a few more forward prospects.

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05-08-2013, 08:12 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by mossey3535 View Post
Are you joking? The popular sentiment is to blame Gillis over AV:

Canucks poll: Should GM Mike Gillis and/or coach Alain Vigneault be fired? (From the Vancouver Sun)

Fire AV: 9.7%
Fire Gillis: 23.42%
Fire Both: 53.71%
Fire Neither: 13%

That's 13,000 votes by the way.

The reason why is because if you look at AV's record only and ignore the way this team has played and how they've played the casual fan thinks AV is fine and it's easier for them to play armchair GM than armchair coach.

Make no mistake, Gillis is on a short leash. He's not getting a pass. But it's a fact that a GM typically outlives at least two coaches. If GMMG craps the bed in the next year (I think he only gets a year to make this team more entertaining in the regular season at least) I would fire him. Realistically he probably gets two years. If he and Aquaman are really as close as they say it might be more than that - look at how many mediocre GM's have lasted in their jobs around the league.
Good.

I find it rather funny that those supporting MG to the fullest are happy to throw out excuses that are somehow "just excuses" when it come to AV.

Like: MG is great because hes built a winning team. Or MG should get more chances because he went to game 7.

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05-08-2013, 08:15 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Jack Tripper View Post
if he had hired his own coach from the start of his tenure he might very well have been fired this offseason but i think most realize every gm gets to make at least one coaching change throughout his tenure
Extending a coach counts as a coaching change.

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05-08-2013, 08:17 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Extending a coach counts as a coaching change.
i'd argue that's incorrect

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05-08-2013, 08:18 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Jack Tripper View Post
i'd argue that's incorrect
It's possible you're right - I'm just trying walk a mile in Aquaman's flippers.

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05-08-2013, 08:26 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Extending a coach counts as a coaching change.
Not a change per se but certainly a decision point.

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05-08-2013, 08:41 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Momesso View Post
I wouldn't bat an eye if Gillis was replaced (or moved into President's chair only) by L. Gilman.

I have always had the concern that Gillis might have a lot of enemies around the league - or some lack of friends in the old-boys fraternity that may GMs seem to be in.

There definitely been enough mistakes to warrant a firing, but as many mention, the Canucks have also been successful under his tenure (regular season).

My biggest problem lies with the (perceived) arrogance with respect to past mistakes made - he was too arrogant to admit the Ballard mistake and trade/waive him to make room for Ehrhoff. And too arrogant to give Ehrhoff what he wanted prior to July 1st where he was offered that crazy contract by Buffalo. Big mistake not to recognize what he meant to our transition game. Hindsight being 20/20, I'd much rather have paid Ehrhoff and Torres $8 million, than the $8+ million spent on Ballard and Booth.

Drafting and developing prospects IMO has been an improvement under Gillis.
Gilman isn't a GM type, he's a number guy.

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05-08-2013, 08:57 PM
  #108
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Keeping Luongo as long as we did (and I suppose continue to do) was a mistake. This needs to be fixed one way or another. It would be nice to get assets back, but I still believe he's getting bought out. The Aquilini's won't love that prospect, but do you really let the circus continue? End this disgraceful story.

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05-08-2013, 09:01 PM
  #109
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Gillis isn't getting a free pass... everyone is looking at his trades and signings and second guessing every move

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05-08-2013, 09:05 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by NugentHopkinsfan View Post
Well it sure is nice to have TWO forward prospects in the system but we have to see how they turn out and Gaunce has third liner at best written all over him.

5 years of drafting and signings we should have a few more forward prospects.
You want me to list all the guys gillis has? There is a lot more. Again give them time to develop. I urge you to visit the prospect thread and talk to some people who know more than both of us. We have many great D prospects, and a few good forwards that look like they have a chance at making it somewhere.

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05-08-2013, 10:17 PM
  #111
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AV is gone because that is what happens when a team falls off like the Canucks did. As for Gillis, he may need to explain to the owners a few of the contracts he gave to players and maybe explain why he gave up on Grabner

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05-08-2013, 10:57 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Jack Tripper View Post
i'd argue that's incorrect
I'd argue that it's incorrect and retarded.

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05-09-2013, 12:30 AM
  #113
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Vigneault did a great job with the **** sandwich he was served this season, somehow winning the division and getting to the playoffs despite having only two centers for a big chunk of the season, the ridiculous goaltending controversy, and losing his best fourth line player and best fighter over some sort of clerical screwup and his best faceoff guy to a bizarre decision that I still don't really understand. If anyone should get fired it should be the GM, not that I am advocating drastic changes after a shortened season, I feel that that is foolish, but if it has to be one or the other it should not be Vigneault, he did a real good job.

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05-09-2013, 12:35 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by SiCKNESS View Post
-traded a promising star in Hodgson for someone who would fit his idea of what the team needs in Kassian at a bad time.
Hodgson demanded a trade
- Gave up 2 promising assets in Grabner + 1st for Ballard
Hindsight is 20/20. It looked like a great deal at the time
- Signed Sturm and dealt him within same year.
For Booth, who, say what you want about him now, looked like a great deal at the time
- He signed Sundin to a 8M+ contract, which was garbage.
I thought the deal Sundin was signed to was excellent for this team-- I would make that signing 100/100 times.
Silly thread

I don't think any of these were bad moves. I think the worst moves he's made include Letting Ehrhoff and Torres go when the money they were asking for didn't seem too outrageous.

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05-09-2013, 12:38 AM
  #115
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Pat Quinn also went to game 7

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05-09-2013, 01:01 AM
  #116
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If he isn't fired and gives Luongo away for nothing instead of trading Schneider for a player that can help us score goals or defend... wow. Like this is a no brainer. There is no difference between Luongo and Schneider, we can win with either, so you trade the one that can bring back a great asset or you give one away and get nothing...HMMMM I wonder. Plus Luongo has proven a hell of a lot more than Cory Schneider that goes without saying. Can he even play a whole season? will he cramp up or be hurt or whatever when we need him?

I hope Gillis ins't around to make this decision but if he is he better not screw this up...like he has the situation for a year now.

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05-09-2013, 01:47 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
You want me to list all the guys gillis has? There is a lot more. Again give them time to develop. I urge you to visit the prospect thread and talk to some people who know more than both of us. We have many great D prospects, and a few good forwards that look like they have a chance at making it somewhere.

EVERY team in the NHL has prospects that look like they "have a chance of making it somewhere". Know what happens to 90% of them? Nothing. This is the fallacy that plagues fans when looking at Gillis' draft - because it is "too early" to judge, every prospect who looks like he can skate, hit, or pass the puck looks like a potential NHLer. By comparison, we've had sufficient time to determine which of Nonis' picks were "busts". But you realize that Nonis had just as many picks play in the AHL as Gillis, right? I mean, at the time, Sergei Shirokov looked like a legit NHLer. Everyone thought Mario Bliznak was a future 3rd liner. Juraj Simek looked great in one year of junior after the draft and many thought we had a steal. So before you give too much praise to Gillis for a bunch of guys who are still "too early to judge" but "look like NHLers", think about how likely it is that any of these guys - beyond Gaunce, Jensen, and Corrado - will ever actually play more than a handful of games at the NHL level. And this is after 5 drafts for Gillis. Nonis had just 4 and produced Schneider, Hansen, Edler, Raymond, and Grabner. Seems to me Gillis gets a lot of benefit of the doubt on his drafting so far ...

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05-09-2013, 01:55 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
AV is gone because that is what happens when a team falls off like the Canucks did. As for Gillis, he may need to explain to the owners a few of the contracts he gave to players and maybe explain why he gave up on Grabner
Because we weren't sure if we were going to sign Hamhuis that off season and we were thin on the blue line. It was a good trade and still is.

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Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
Silly thread

I don't think any of these were bad moves. I think the worst moves he's made include Letting Ehrhoff and Torres go when the money they were asking for didn't seem too outrageous.
I agree. And I think people keep forgetting that it was Gillis who actually acquired Ehrhoff at no cost in the first place.

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05-09-2013, 02:15 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Smokey McCanucks View Post
Vigneault did a great job with the **** sandwich he was served this season, somehow winning the division and getting to the playoffs despite having only two centers for a big chunk of the season, the ridiculous goaltending controversy, and losing his best fourth line player and best fighter over some sort of clerical screwup and his best faceoff guy to a bizarre decision that I still don't really understand. If anyone should get fired it should be the GM, not that I am advocating drastic changes after a shortened season, I feel that that is foolish, but if it has to be one or the other it should not be Vigneault, he did a real good job.

He's not at risk of being fired for regular season work which was just fine, he's at risk because of his playoff record.

This year the only players he was really missing were Booth and Tanev, those shouldn't break a team given Corrado filled in for Tanev ably. We finally had centre depth that was healthy this year: Sedin-Kesler-Roy-Lapierre. AV needs to get more done during the playoffs, he's been out coached in far too many series. This one was no different.


Last edited by me2: 05-09-2013 at 02:22 AM.
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05-09-2013, 02:20 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by NugentHopkinsfan View Post
If he isn't fired and gives Luongo away for nothing instead of trading Schneider for a player that can help us score goals or defend... wow. Like this is a no brainer. There is no difference between Luongo and Schneider, we can win with either, so you trade the one that can bring back a great asset or you give one away and get nothing...HMMMM I wonder. Plus Luongo has proven a hell of a lot more than Cory Schneider that goes without saying. Can he even play a whole season? will he cramp up or be hurt or whatever when we need him?

I hope Gillis ins't around to make this decision but if he is he better not screw this up...like he has the situation for a year now.
Do you ever stop and think why there's the difference in valuation? I mean, if there's honestly no difference between them as you say, then why will teams give up a team altering return for Schneider and Luongo can't even be given away?

And of course you're conveniently ignoring the fact that Luongo himself wants out of Vancouver. That'd be some real A1 GMing there. Trade away the guy that wants to be here while holding the guy that wants to move closer to his family hostage.

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05-09-2013, 02:24 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
Do you ever stop and think why there's the difference in valuation? I mean, if there's honestly no difference between them as you say, then why will teams give up a team altering return for Schneider and Luongo can't even be given away?

And of course you're conveniently ignoring the fact that Luongo himself wants out of Vancouver. That'd be some real A1 GMing there. Trade away the guy that wants to be here while holding the guy that wants to move closer to his family hostage.
I fear if the team rebuilds we could give Luongo away from nothing, then watch Schneider walk as UFA before the rebuild is done. Leaving us with nothing to show for either.

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05-09-2013, 02:26 AM
  #122
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I fear if the team rebuilds we could give Luongo away from nothing, then watch Schneider walk as UFA before the rebuild is done. Leaving us with nothing to show for either.
When was the last time a starting goalie walked from a team that was willing to extend him?

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05-09-2013, 06:54 AM
  #123
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When was the last time a starting goalie walked from a team that was willing to extend him?
Canuck luck.

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05-09-2013, 09:44 AM
  #124
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EVERY team in the NHL has prospects that look like they "have a chance of making it somewhere". Know what happens to 90% of them? Nothing. This is the fallacy that plagues fans when looking at Gillis' draft - because it is "too early" to judge, every prospect who looks like he can skate, hit, or pass the puck looks like a potential NHLer. By comparison, we've had sufficient time to determine which of Nonis' picks were "busts". But you realize that Nonis had just as many picks play in the AHL as Gillis, right? I mean, at the time, Sergei Shirokov looked like a legit NHLer. Everyone thought Mario Bliznak was a future 3rd liner. Juraj Simek looked great in one year of junior after the draft and many thought we had a steal. So before you give too much praise to Gillis for a bunch of guys who are still "too early to judge" but "look like NHLers", think about how likely it is that any of these guys - beyond Gaunce, Jensen, and Corrado - will ever actually play more than a handful of games at the NHL level. And this is after 5 drafts for Gillis. Nonis had just 4 and produced Schneider, Hansen, Edler, Raymond, and Grabner. Seems to me Gillis gets a lot of benefit of the doubt on his drafting so far ...
He should.
You can't assess without adequate time.

Nonis had 4 years of drafting yes.
But we're right now we're assessing his draft record HOW many years after he was axed?

5 years after the fact?


When he was fired at the end of 07/08:

Schneider was impressive in the AHL as a starter. (Not unlike Lack)
Bourdon (RIP) while showing talent, was not quite ready for the NHL despite being touted
(Not unlike Schroeder)

Raymond was a surprise, showing promise in the NHL as an injury callup (Corrado)
Grabner was doing okay in the AHL, promising but needs more seasoning adjusting to the Pro game (Jensen)

Jannik Hansen was in between the AHL and NHL. A steal. (Chris Tanev is a permanent NHLer)
Edler was a young emerging NHL player (Not unlike Hodgson)

Then there's Gaunce, Rodin, Connauton (doing well with the Texas Stars), and the others.
If any of them become NHLers even as role players thats a bonus win.


Time will tell.
Gilllis' trajectory is at a minimum, in-line with Nonis' drafting.
Yes, FA acquisitions of prospects are more or less the same as drafting.

Then consider that Gillis drafts lower in the draft due to finishing high each year.
Didn't have as many picks, traded in preparation for a Cup run.

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05-09-2013, 09:52 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by CanaFan View Post
EVERY team in the NHL has prospects that look like they "have a chance of making it somewhere". Know what happens to 90% of them? Nothing. This is the fallacy that plagues fans when looking at Gillis' draft - because it is "too early" to judge, every prospect who looks like he can skate, hit, or pass the puck looks like a potential NHLer. By comparison, we've had sufficient time to determine which of Nonis' picks were "busts". But you realize that Nonis had just as many picks play in the AHL as Gillis, right? I mean, at the time, Sergei Shirokov looked like a legit NHLer. Everyone thought Mario Bliznak was a future 3rd liner. Juraj Simek looked great in one year of junior after the draft and many thought we had a steal. So before you give too much praise to Gillis for a bunch of guys who are still "too early to judge" but "look like NHLers", think about how likely it is that any of these guys - beyond Gaunce, Jensen, and Corrado - will ever actually play more than a handful of games at the NHL level. And this is after 5 drafts for Gillis. Nonis had just 4 and produced Schneider, Hansen, Edler, Raymond, and Grabner. Seems to me Gillis gets a lot of benefit of the doubt on his drafting so far ...
That's all great and all, and I was not saying our prospect pool was great, it is bottom half in the NHL. But if you read the guy I have been replying to he was comparing gillis to nonis in terms of drafting, gillis has been much better.

Your argument is the exact argument I was making. We don't know where so e of these guy will be, however your playing in the AHL argument holds little water as we so far have been using other leagues to de elop players. Gillis so far has Hodgson schreoder corrado Jensen that have played in the NHL with many more looking probable.

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