HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > San Jose Sharks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Anyone else feel DW redeemed himself this year?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-08-2013, 05:53 PM
  #51
do0glas
Registered User
 
do0glas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,019
vCash: 500
clowe on vancouver wouldve made things easier, imo. hes a rehash of the wrong direction that gillis took that team. hes poor defensively, wouldve dragged roy and kesler down, and probably wouldve taken some dumb penalties. so yea, pretty much what they did anyway.

do0glas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2013, 06:45 PM
  #52
thirtysix*
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 232
vCash: 500
I think hes done a great job. And we're extremely lucky to have him as our GM.

thirtysix* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2013, 06:55 PM
  #53
hohosaregood
Drunken Snacking
 
hohosaregood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,066
vCash: 500
Hypothetically, let's say that DW failed this year and thus earned himself a firing, how would we replace him? From within, from another org, or just someone new?

hohosaregood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2013, 08:02 PM
  #54
SJeasy
Registered User
 
SJeasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Jose
Country: United States
Posts: 12,344
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hohosaregood View Post
Hypothetically, let's say that DW failed this year and thus earned himself a firing, how would we replace him? From within, from another org, or just someone new?
That's the big issue, good GMs are hard to find. The last two hirings are probably the best available and by a large margin (JK and Nill). I don't see any others that are high on my respect radar. Experience in the NHL GM foodchain is a must which limits the survey field.

I do think DW has serious holes in his game, but if pinkslipped, he might himself be the best available. I certainly wouldn't want Burke or Lowe or several others whose holes make the Grand Canyon look like a small wash in the desert.

SJeasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2013, 08:58 PM
  #55
MarleauApologist
fun must be alwalys
 
MarleauApologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: San Francisco, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 7,366
vCash: 500
Yeah, DW isn't that bad. Brian Burke is awful.

For all his faults, and his overrating of physicality and cup rings, the lack of emphasis he puts on scoring depth, and his other faults, he has built a consistent playoff team, and isn't nearly as bad as a guy like Burke.

I don't know what to tell you guys who question the Clowe return. He probably got 2 2nds and an early 3rd for a rental who is 30 and breaking down, and had 0 goals.

Derek Roy, a superior player (I hate him, but he was a ppg player in his prime and is still a 60pt center) got one 2nd and a weak prospect.
Iginla went for a late 1st projected 25-30 and a couple weak prospects not likely to make the NHL
Jagr went for a 2nd, I discount both the Iggy and Jagr deals because while both are good trades, each was a true superstar in their primes.

I can't think of the other tdl moves, but he got an amazing package for Clowe. In comparison to the other deal made, it's great. Keep in mind that he was trading a forward who is bad defensively and had 0 goals (as ridiculous as the stat was, other gms still used it as leverage I'm sure), Clowe had an NTC, and was injured most of the year. The return was a miracle. It was a great deal. We massively overrated him because Burke offered the Kadri pick for him a few years back.

MarleauApologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2013, 09:03 PM
  #56
Gene Parmesan
Ice up, son.
 
Gene Parmesan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: California
Country: United States
Posts: 31,430
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great 88 View Post
I thought Vancouver offered us something better (possibly Jens), but Wilson didn't want to give Clowe to a division rival. Guess we can be thankful for that now
Clowe had to approve the trade as well.

Gene Parmesan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2013, 09:03 PM
  #57
Pinkfloyd
Registered User
 
Pinkfloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Roseville
Country: United States
Posts: 32,141
vCash: 2283
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
That's the big issue, good GMs are hard to find. The last two hirings are probably the best available and by a large margin (JK and Nill). I don't see any others that are high on my respect radar. Experience in the NHL GM foodchain is a must which limits the survey field.

I do think DW has serious holes in his game, but if pinkslipped, he might himself be the best available. I certainly wouldn't want Burke or Lowe or several others whose holes make the Grand Canyon look like a small wash in the desert.
You have to look at assistants to franchises you believe are doing the job. Nill was definitely the guy I wanted but Dallas made a good move getting him out of Detroit. Past him and JK, it depends on what your emphasis is. Jason Botterill in Pittsburgh is probably still in the grooming process. Ron Hextall in LA is probably due for a GM spot soon if he wants it. Norm MacIver is probably someone to look at as well in Chicago. Don Sweeney in Boston is also an option but he probably will stay there until that position opens up. He's been a longtime Bruin.

Pinkfloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2013, 09:18 PM
  #58
MarleauApologist
fun must be alwalys
 
MarleauApologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: San Francisco, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 7,366
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene Parmesan View Post
Clowe had to approve the trade as well.
Clowe said that he liked Vigneault and would be willing to play for him again in an interview. Pretty sure he would have waived.

MarleauApologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2013, 09:37 PM
  #59
StalockSuperfan
Registered User
 
StalockSuperfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,681
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinTheBlackCircle View Post
I was going to start a similar thread today.

Ok, Burish was a mistake.....but going back to Gomez, Torres and Hannan coming in and Clowe and Murray going out......everything else has worked as well as expected or even better.

I think B is fair right now. If the Sharks make it to the Conference Finals, I think you move it to B+.
Well, technically DW is not going to do anything between now and the Conference Finals that would change his grade. His work is done.

StalockSuperfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2013, 10:59 PM
  #60
WantonAbandon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,185
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainbowDash View Post
I believe i was sort of critical of DW for the past few years, but this sweep tastes so sweet, and honestly DW did practically everything most of us wanted to do this year.

Fix the PK
Dont pick up crap at the TDL
Ship out what doesnt work

Holy crap were we wrong about Hannan being a pylon
Holy crap we were right in shipping off Murray and Clowe to make us better
Holy crap did Torres make a difference
Larry Robinson?
Leaders actually leading?

Lets see what we draft this year, so far Dougie gets an "B"

I think if he hits home runs at the draft we will continue to compete for the cup for many more years.

anyone else agree?
Wilson did get the job done, however I still think he was a little too slow/cautious

WantonAbandon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2013, 11:09 PM
  #61
Eighth Fret
Registered User
 
Eighth Fret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,145
vCash: 500
I am disappointed no one has made a Dumb and Dumber reference.

Eighth Fret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2013, 11:18 PM
  #62
WantonAbandon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,185
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eighth Fret View Post
I am disappointed no one has made a Dumb and Dumber reference.
... You mean there is a chance?

WantonAbandon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2013, 11:28 PM
  #63
SJeasy
Registered User
 
SJeasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Jose
Country: United States
Posts: 12,344
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
You have to look at assistants to franchises you believe are doing the job. Nill was definitely the guy I wanted but Dallas made a good move getting him out of Detroit. Past him and JK, it depends on what your emphasis is. Jason Botterill in Pittsburgh is probably still in the grooming process. Ron Hextall in LA is probably due for a GM spot soon if he wants it. Norm MacIver is probably someone to look at as well in Chicago. Don Sweeney in Boston is also an option but he probably will stay there until that position opens up. He's been a longtime Bruin.
Sweeney would probably be the top of what is available. I like Boston's drafting/development. I am not fond of LA's moves. Shero in Pitt is pathetic. They had the drafting before his arrival and still do and his moves can be counterproductive. Shero has an extremely itchy trigger finger on trades, some that are not so good. I am not sure that Shero is a good mentor. Don't know about MacIver, what is his longevity in the job?

SJeasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2013, 11:35 PM
  #64
NWShark*
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,714
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Getzo5 View Post
Many Devils fans saw this coming to be honest. Larry had him on our `03 Cup team and it made a lot of sense for him too. He needed to go out West, to bury the ghosts of his past and get a fresh start. He fits in with his skillset, he fits in the California environment, he had a spot on this team and he got a legitimate chance to compete for the SC again. It was a perfect match. So yeah, I wouldn`t credit the Gomez signing to Wilson. He definitely got a bit lucky with him and Stuart.

Torres is a different story (so is moving Burns to wing; that was obviously a coaching decision and I`m glad it panned out) though, that was a great move on his part.
Well then I guess he's the luckiest GM ever considering how he got Thornton, Boyle, Burns, Heatley, then dumped Heatley... etc etc... At some point it's not luck. Overall he's had a great run as GM of this team and not just this year. Can't believe how some of you complain no matter what he does...

NWShark* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2013, 11:41 PM
  #65
Pinkfloyd
Registered User
 
Pinkfloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Roseville
Country: United States
Posts: 32,141
vCash: 2283
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Sweeney would probably be the top of what is available. I like Boston's drafting/development. I am not fond of LA's moves. Shero in Pitt is pathetic. They had the drafting before his arrival and still do and his moves can be counterproductive. Shero has an extremely itchy trigger finger on trades, some that are not so good. I am not sure that Shero is a good mentor. Don't know about MacIver, what is his longevity in the job?
He's been there since 2006. Maciver was hired as the director of player development, and was promoted to director of player personnel in 2011. After Bergevin left to become the general manager of Montreal, Maciver was promoted to assistant general manager.

He's still pretty new to the higher end of the front office but he has been around pretty much since the Chicago turnaround.

Pinkfloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2013, 11:46 PM
  #66
Pinkfloyd
Registered User
 
Pinkfloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Roseville
Country: United States
Posts: 32,141
vCash: 2283
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWShark View Post
Well then I guess he's the luckiest GM ever considering how he got Thornton, Boyle, Burns, Heatley, then dumped Heatley... etc etc... At some point it's not luck. Overall he's had a great run as GM of this team and not just this year. Can't believe how some of you complain no matter what he does...
To me, it's not luck. He's obviously good at trading for the higher end players. However, the part that also isn't luck to me is his draft history and the team's development history. Also, his overall inability to competently build a roster especially at the depth levels. There's no reason to be absolute about him. He's done a lot of very good things and he's made many mistakes as well.

For a team that aspires to build a Cup champion caliber team, you would think that at least some of those issues would be a potential deal-breaker for people in whether they'd let him go.

Pinkfloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-08-2013, 11:51 PM
  #67
Evincar
Your Final Judgement
 
Evincar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,323
vCash: 500
Dont see the point of this thread since the Sharks have only won 1 round so far.

Evincar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2013, 02:06 AM
  #68
Audio Outlaw
Jaded Sharks Fan
 
Audio Outlaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Bay Area, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,515
vCash: 1185
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
You can't judge a GM off of one year, unless they win the cup that year. Even then, you have to make sure that cup win was a result of that GM's choices (like when a new GM wins a cup and most of the team was built by the previous GM).

If DW wins a cup this year, all is forgiven. If he doesn't, he's made some mistakes and they have cost this team, possibly dearly. I think he's a good GM in general, I'm just not sure he's a good ENOUGH GM. The stars have a aligned a bit for him this season, and that's great, but in the end the Sharks have the second longest playoff streak in the league and still don't have a cup.
Hockeyball I must admit I pretty much always agree with your posts, but this one i'm unsure about. Convince me of someone available who could do a better job than DW. He is not perfect I know that.. but I also don't really see any automatic upgrades. Losing DW scares me.

Audio Outlaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2013, 02:23 AM
  #69
OrrNumber4
Registered User
 
OrrNumber4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 7,429
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
To me, it's not luck. He's obviously good at trading for the higher end players. However, the part that also isn't luck to me is his draft history and the team's development history. Also, his overall inability to competently build a roster especially at the depth levels. There's no reason to be absolute about him. He's done a lot of very good things and he's made many mistakes as well.

For a team that aspires to build a Cup champion caliber team, you would think that at least some of those issues would be a potential deal-breaker for people in whether they'd let him go.
Wasn't DW director of player development when the Sharks matured players like Hannan, Marleau, Friesen?

The Sharks are a very good development team, and a very good drafting team. They just haven't had very many good picks, because DW has either traded them away or because the team has done well (or both). And even in the cases of bad picks, a good job has been done salvaging them (Wishart).

OrrNumber4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2013, 03:30 AM
  #70
NWShark*
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,714
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
To me, it's not luck. He's obviously good at trading for the higher end players. However, the part that also isn't luck to me is his draft history and the team's development history. Also, his overall inability to competently build a roster especially at the depth levels. There's no reason to be absolute about him. He's done a lot of very good things and he's made many mistakes as well.

For a team that aspires to build a Cup champion caliber team, you would think that at least some of those issues would be a potential deal-breaker for people in whether they'd let him go.
It's not so much being absolute about it. It's realizing that a lot of things are out of any GMs control and he's done mostly good with the options available. Bottom 6 players have mostly just not played to the level that he expected or history said they should have. A guy like Zeus was a terror to play against when he was with LA and pretty much every other team. It was entirely reasonable for DW to expect a higher level of play. That didn't materialize. Not really DW fault. No one should be *****in about slight overpayments though. That is a fact of life as a SJ fan. History has shown FA don't want to come to SJ. They have to be traded there to see what it's like then they realize how great it is.

Many teams reaching for the shiny cup trade away valuable assets to try and make a run. When the team is close the GMs go all out. DW isn't the only one guilty of that. I'm not saying everything he's done has been perfect, I'm just saying he's easily above average as a GM and the reality is the sharks could have been a lot worse off with someone else at the helm. The grass isn't always greener.

NWShark* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2013, 08:19 AM
  #71
LeeIFBB
Teflon Doug
 
LeeIFBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Tanning Bed
Posts: 1,482
vCash: 500
Nope.

He made moves that made the team better, no doubt, but he was the one that constructed a team that needed fixing in the first place.

Still waiting for that Stanley Cup.

LeeIFBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2013, 08:32 AM
  #72
Pinkfloyd
Registered User
 
Pinkfloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Roseville
Country: United States
Posts: 32,141
vCash: 2283
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWShark View Post
It's not so much being absolute about it. It's realizing that a lot of things are out of any GMs control and he's done mostly good with the options available. Bottom 6 players have mostly just not played to the level that he expected or history said they should have. A guy like Zeus was a terror to play against when he was with LA and pretty much every other team. It was entirely reasonable for DW to expect a higher level of play. That didn't materialize. Not really DW fault. No one should be *****in about slight overpayments though. That is a fact of life as a SJ fan. History has shown FA don't want to come to SJ. They have to be traded there to see what it's like then they realize how great it is.

Many teams reaching for the shiny cup trade away valuable assets to try and make a run. When the team is close the GMs go all out. DW isn't the only one guilty of that. I'm not saying everything he's done has been perfect, I'm just saying he's easily above average as a GM and the reality is the sharks could have been a lot worse off with someone else at the helm. The grass isn't always greener.
For a guy like Handzus, that was easily within DW's control. Handzus wasn't exactly the terror you make him out to be prior to coming to San Jose. He was given 2nd line minutes out of necessity in LA and produced at a 3rd line level. He was never that tough to play against.

The role players haven't played that well here because DW has rarely targeted the right guy and/or the right fit. And really, if history shows FA's don't want to come here, why sign them especially at that level? This is where he should be developing players to fill those spots. Let your young guys come in and play and if it doesn't work, trade for someone later.

I agree that he's above average as a GM but he hasn't gotten the job done and there are very clear indicators as to why and it falls on him. What good does it do to stick with a guy that will get close but never get you over the top?

Pinkfloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2013, 08:49 AM
  #73
Alaskanice
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: 1 1/2 hours away
Country: United States
Posts: 394
vCash: 500
Doug Wilson is one of the absolute best GM's in the NHL today. I can see and understand the gripes about him but most are based on our supposed knowledge of hockey.
No doubt there will be some who accuse me of being a homer but this team has had a chance every year he's been here. Why do you all ignore that?? Because they haven't won the cup?? I'm bummed as well but at least they've had the chance. Not many other teams have that longevity.
People here lambasted him for picking up Torres and Hannan. Both are proving to be shrewd moves on his part. Yet, he is vilified for the Burish signing. Now he has a load of draft picks and still, Burish is trash, DW needs to be fired.
That's too easy and truly unimaginative. We should appreciate that we are in the hunt every single season.
I'll step off my soapbox now.

Alaskanice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2013, 08:52 AM
  #74
Pinkfloyd
Registered User
 
Pinkfloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Roseville
Country: United States
Posts: 32,141
vCash: 2283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskanice View Post
Doug Wilson is one of the absolute best GM's in the NHL today. I can see and understand the gripes about him but most are based on our supposed knowledge of hockey.
No doubt there will be some who accuse me of being a homer but this team has had a chance every year he's been here. Why do you all ignore that?? Because they haven't won the cup?? I'm bummed as well but at least they've had the chance. Not many other teams have that longevity.
People here lambasted him for picking up Torres and Hannan. Both are proving to be shrewd moves on his part. Yet, he is vilified for the Burish signing. Now he has a load of draft picks and still, Burish is trash, DW needs to be fired.
That's too easy and truly unimaginative. We should appreciate that we are in the hunt every single season.
I'll step off my soapbox now.
That depends on what you define as a chance to win the Cup. I don't think they had a chance to win the Cup until Boyle arrived and kudos for him for taking advantage of that situation. They had a three year window when he arrived and aren't in it now, I don't believe. There are many transgressions in the past that has led to where they're at now that can't be forgiven just because they swept the Canucks this year.

Pinkfloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-09-2013, 08:59 AM
  #75
Alaskanice
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: 1 1/2 hours away
Country: United States
Posts: 394
vCash: 500
Forgiven??
This is sports.
Nobody owes anyone anything.
Fandom is a choice. You elect to put your time and money in. Enjoy and support or don't.
People hold DW responsible for far too much. He's forgotten more than we will ever know.

Alaskanice is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:32 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.