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The Luongo Thread: Part Agoogleplex

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Old
05-08-2013, 09:06 PM
  #351
vanuck
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Originally Posted by kevinsane View Post
He was either rusty, injured, or both. Using stats from this series is disingenuous. It's like using only Aluobgo's bad games to categorize his abilities.
Why can't it be that they are both terrific goalies, both have the occasional bad game, and one is younger and cheaper and likely to stay. Some of these posts are like two guys with tiny dicks fighting over whose is bigger.
A must-quote. Bravo.

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05-08-2013, 09:19 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by mossey3535 View Post
I think he will too because I freaking love the guy, but we can't assume that he will.

Again Lu and Schneids are almost interchangeable right now.

It's a no-brainer to go with a guy who is younger, just as good, and definitely WON'T cost us money in the future. You can't just assume Lu will play out the contract - what if he gets injured and is forced to retire? You can't forecast those things, but the sensible thing to do is to project the worst case scenario and plan for that.

The phrase 'who cares if he costs us a 3rd liner' after a year in which we've suffered greatly from injuries to our centers is one I just don't agree with.
Hey mossey, what injury did Schneider's look like to you? Groin? His lateral movement just seemed very off yesterday.

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05-08-2013, 09:42 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Considering that Luongo value was probably very low at the deadline (And probably lower if you want playoff help instead of future asset like scriven +2nd).

Considering that Luongo was actually needed in the playoff while Schneider was injured.

i know it could not have been really worse, but how could trading Luongo for a low return be a better option if Schneider wasn't able to play the 2 first games and lack is injured?

What if instead we traded Schneider for playoff help? (well, what if he was traded in 2011? to get playoff help for the playoff 2011-2013?)

Well my question is : "If you could go back in time as far as 2011, would you do a different decision about our goalie? (Keeping in mind that one of the reason we kept them both is because the offer for them never been good enough for Gillis to accept, especially for current help, instead of draft pick/prospect.)
Your question confuses me.

If I was MG, I would have tried to mend fences with Luongo after he said that he'd agree to waive his NMC if it helped the team, and moved Schneider last summer, or at the latest by the trade deadline while his value was high.

It's hard to know if the offers for Schneider were ever good enough, or if he was bluffing and had buyers remorse after the 2011 cup run. We started hearing noises from the local media that management really liked Schneider during the 2012 season, but at the time I just thought that meant they were going to have a high asking price. Moving him at the trade deadline would have netted us some much needed top 6 help for this year's playoffs.

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05-08-2013, 09:48 PM
  #354
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Hey mossey, what injury did Schneider's look like to you? Groin? His lateral movement just seemed very off yesterday.
Honestly, no idea. His movement wasn't that bad in his first game back, last game might just be because he hasn't been on the ice that much, sometimes you get a little awkward especially when your reads are late due to inactivity.

The kinds of goals he let in during both games suggested to me that he was not getting a good read on the puck - thus the guessing on the five hole goals, etc.

A groin injury is pretty difficult to play through especially in a modern butterfly style. But he could skate.

Bruised ribs/clavicle he wouldn't be taking shots, which he was doing in practice.

Knee/ankle sprain same as groin.

As I said in the injury thread, the way it played out was extremely unusual. I guessed viral infection there. Or concussion, which he could have sustained in practice so we wouldn't have seen it. But if so, why was his practice intermittent?

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05-08-2013, 10:26 PM
  #355
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Hilarious. Two games from a rusty Schneider coming off injury and suddenly he's not a better goalie than Luongo. I'll make my decisions based on what's been evident over the past three seasons, thanks.

By the way, nobody has really been bashing Luongo. Acknowledging that Schneider's the better goalie is not bashing Luongo. He played well, obviously.
How can you acknowledge something that's not remotely true?

Schneider has a long, long way to go before he can claim to even be as good as Luongo. Has he looked good the past 3 years in a variety of different scenarios? Sure, despite some absolutely awful play in this years playoffs. Can he do it consistently over his career? How the hell do you know?

Luongo did.

By the way, lots of people have been bashing Luongo. It just doesn't look like it when you have a personal problem with the guy, like several posters here (not naming names) seem to.

Sad really, a guy that did so much for the franchise still can't garner an ounce of respect. Says a lot of about certain fans of this team.

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Old
05-08-2013, 10:51 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
"It's time to move on..."
"It's Cory's team..."

-Roberto Luongo

Just a reminder for those still clinging to the notion that Luongo will somehow stay and Schneider gets moved.
And you love it, don't you? Well, do you remember our discussion at the beginning of the year? Keeping Schneider over Luongo is the beginning of the end. Mark my words!

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Old
05-08-2013, 11:21 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Considering that Luongo value was probably very low at the deadline (And probably lower if you want playoff help instead of future asset like scriven +2nd).

Considering that Luongo was actually needed in the playoff while Schneider was injured.

i know it could not have been really worse, but how could trading Luongo for a low return be a better option if Schneider wasn't able to play the 2 first games and lack is injured?

What if instead we traded Schneider for playoff help? (well, what if he was traded in 2011? to get playoff help for the playoff 2011-2013?)

Well my question is : "If you could go back in time as far as 2011, would you do a different decision about our goalie? (Keeping in mind that one of the reason we kept them both is because the offer for them never been good enough for Gillis to accept, especially for current help, instead of draft pick/prospect.)
What do you mean, we people?


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05-08-2013, 11:28 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by YouCantYandleThis View Post
How can you acknowledge something that's not remotely true?

Schneider has a long, long way to go before he can claim to even be as good as Luongo. Has he looked good the past 3 years in a variety of different scenarios? Sure, despite some absolutely awful play in this years playoffs. Can he do it consistently over his career? How the hell do you know?

Luongo did.

By the way, lots of people have been bashing Luongo. It just doesn't look like it when you have a personal problem with the guy, like several posters here (not naming names) seem to.

Sad really, a guy that did so much for the franchise still can't garner an ounce of respect. Says a lot of about certain fans of this team.
This isn't about what Luongo did five or ten years ago. Career-wise, Luongo is absolutely one of the best goalies of the modern era, and of course Schneider is nowhere near that status yet, and may never be.

This is about the recent past, the present and the future. Aside from this two game playoff stint, one would be hard pressed to present a case where Schneider does not look more likely to be the better goalie going forward. In case you weren't aware, Schneider has been the most consistent goalie in the league over the past three seasons. Far, far more consistent than Luongo. Go ahead and look it up - only Lundqvist and Rask come close. The only knock against him is the relatively low number of games played - but that isn't his fault. The sample size continues to grow and Schneider continues to perform at an extremely high level.

Even on a level playing field, anyone who would choose Luongo over Schneider as the goalie to build around in 2013 would be laughed out of the room by anyone with a clue. Now factor in age and salary and it's a complete no-brainer.

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05-08-2013, 11:35 PM
  #359
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I think there will be a market for Luongo. He and his contract will fit in nicely somewhere. Just don't expect an overwhelming return going the other way. He will bring assets, but not a heist.

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05-08-2013, 11:43 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by Hal 9000 View Post
Keeping Schneider over Luongo is the beginning of the end. Mark my words!
The end is looming. The choice between Schneider and Luongo won't affect this.

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05-08-2013, 11:46 PM
  #361
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The end is looming. The choice between Schneider and Luongo won't affect this.
It already has!

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05-08-2013, 11:51 PM
  #362
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Yes, we are doomed.

It is written.

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Old
05-09-2013, 12:00 AM
  #363
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Yes, we are doomed.

It is written.
Make all the fun you want! Canucker laughed at the beginning of the season when I predicted this, so you might as well keep on laughing.

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05-09-2013, 12:39 AM
  #364
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Originally Posted by Fat Tony View Post
The end is looming. The choice between Schneider and Luongo won't affect this.
Yes it does. Luongo won't net anything in return.

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05-09-2013, 01:34 AM
  #365
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Yes it does. Luongo won't net anything in return.
You didn't really counter my argument.

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05-09-2013, 02:18 AM
  #366
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Originally Posted by Hal 9000 View Post
Make all the fun you want! Canucker laughed at the beginning of the season when I predicted this, so you might as well keep on laughing.

Care to retract your statement about "Actually, he was very good over the course of about 3 weeks. The 9 or 10 game string of playing bottom feeders inflated his stats, otherwise he was merely adequate." now that it has been proven incorrect?

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05-09-2013, 05:05 AM
  #367
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Originally Posted by mossey3535 View Post
Honestly, no idea. His movement wasn't that bad in his first game back, last game might just be because he hasn't been on the ice that much, sometimes you get a little awkward especially when your reads are late due to inactivity.

The kinds of goals he let in during both games suggested to me that he was not getting a good read on the puck - thus the guessing on the five hole goals, etc.

A groin injury is pretty difficult to play through especially in a modern butterfly style. But he could skate.

Bruised ribs/clavicle he wouldn't be taking shots, which he was doing in practice.

Knee/ankle sprain same as groin.

As I said in the injury thread, the way it played out was extremely unusual. I guessed viral infection there. Or concussion, which he could have sustained in practice so we wouldn't have seen it. But if so, why was his practice intermittent?
I see, thanks. To me he just seemed to struggle mightily in moving side-to-side across his crease and looked "off" that whole game when making saves, like he was fighting the puck. Just not quite himself in how he reacted to shots and all.

Still a stupid decision to start him in Game 4. And not only that, but to keep him in there too...

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05-09-2013, 05:46 AM
  #368
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Who cares about who was in net. The Canucks did not belong on the same ice as the Sharks and it was proven on every shift. It was a definitive rout.

If Canucks retain twenty percent of Luongo's salary that is one million against the cap per season. That is going to be more acceptable than the thirty million dollar buyout which doesn't even evade league penalties!

Luongo for 4.1 million is a damn good deal. A low budget team like Pheonix or NYI will gobble that up!

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05-09-2013, 08:14 AM
  #369
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Who cares about who was in net. The Canucks did not belong on the same ice as the Sharks and it was proven on every shift. It was a definitive rout.

If Canucks retain twenty percent of Luongo's salary that is one million against the cap per season. That is going to be more acceptable than the thirty million dollar buyout which doesn't even evade league penalties!

Luongo for 4.1 million is a damn good deal. A low budget team like Pheonix or NYI will gobble that up!
I don't see the Canucks needing to retain any salary.

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05-09-2013, 10:14 AM
  #370
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Make all the fun you want! Canucker laughed at the beginning of the season when I predicted this, so you might as well keep on laughing.
Oh don't take it personally.

I just always make fun of someone who predicts "the End!"...whether on an internet chat board or wearing a sandwich sign and eating bits of flotsam from their hair.

The end has already arrived? Really?

The end of what, exactly?

The franchise?

The run of playoff appearances?

Sanity?

When you make such an hysterical statement you can expect a certain amount of sarcasm.

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05-09-2013, 12:00 PM
  #371
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Oh don't take it personally.

I just always make fun of someone who predicts "the End!"...whether on an internet chat board or wearing a sandwich sign and eating bits of flotsam from their hair.

The end has already arrived? Really?

The end of what, exactly?

The franchise?

The run of playoff appearances?

Sanity?

When you make such an hysterical statement you can expect a certain amount of sarcasm.
Oh, so you're laughing because i used an incomplete sentence. I guess I did that because I thought it was obvious. Sometimes I do forget who I might be talking too (or posting too) and what their intelligence level might be, so....just for you; By "the end", what I mean is the end of this team being considered a contender for the Stanley Cup. It also means; the end of respectability. The end of dominating within our division, the end of the "Detroit" model to keep reloading. The end of laughing at Toronto (which has been enjoyable), Calgary or Edmonton.

The "end of..." has already begun. Keeping our largest trade chip, while we throw away our star goalie for nothing will ensure this.

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05-09-2013, 12:14 PM
  #372
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"The end", as I see it, is the where the Sedins will not be able to get to the Conference finals as the Canucks' first liners. I don't see Schneider or Luongo (or their return in a trade) changing that. Big changes are needed. The goalie situation is one of them.

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05-09-2013, 12:18 PM
  #373
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Originally Posted by Hal 9000 View Post
Oh, so you're laughing because i used an incomplete sentence. I guess I did that because I thought it was obvious. Sometimes I do forget who I might be talking too (or posting too) and what their intelligence level might be, so....just for you; By "the end", what I mean is the end of this team being considered a contender for the Stanley Cup. It also means; the end of respectability. The end of dominating within our division, the end of the "Detroit" model to keep reloading. The end of laughing at Toronto (which has been enjoyable), Calgary or Edmonton.

The "end of..." has already begun. Keeping our largest trade chip, while we throw away our star goalie for nothing will ensure this.
No, not because you used an incomplete sentence, but because you used complete hysteria.

I am as disappointed as you, but I don't see the need for wailing and gnashing of teeth...but that's probably because I never see the need for that...like wearing white pants after labour day.

But go ahead. Get out your torches and pitchforks...whatever gets you through.

However, given that you did compete your thought, then I would say that I disagree. Not that there hasn't been mistakes and problems, but those adversities are there in sports, as in life, to overcome.

I think AV has run out of time here, but I am willing to wait and see what Gillis & Co have constructed for next October before making a judgement that we no longer qualify for contender status.

in my view, there are just too many good players on this team for me to agree with you.

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05-09-2013, 12:38 PM
  #374
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No, not because you used an incomplete sentence, but because you used complete hysteria.

I am as disappointed as you, but I don't see the need for wailing and gnashing of teeth...but that's probably because I never see the need for that...like wearing white pants after labour day.

But go ahead. Get out your torches and pitchforks...whatever gets you through.

However, given that you did compete your thought, then I would say that I disagree. Not that there hasn't been mistakes and problems, but those adversities are there in sports, as in life, to overcome.

I think AV has run out of time here, but I am willing to wait and see what Gillis & Co have constructed for next October before making a judgement that we no longer qualify for contender status.

in my view, there are just too many good players on this team for me to agree with you.

I can respect e everything you wrote after the word however, even if we disagree.

To clarify the first part; I will stress that although disappointed, i was not altogether surprised. I'm not wailing, gnashing or seeking a lynch mob. I am not wearing white pants today or any other day. What gets me through is the same thing that got me through the 80's, the Messier days and the Cloutier era - simple indifference! I will watch this team as always, but I will reserve my emotional investment for a new era.

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05-09-2013, 01:12 PM
  #375
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I can respect e everything you wrote after the word however, even if we disagree.

To clarify the first part; I will stress that although disappointed, i was not altogether surprised. I'm not wailing, gnashing or seeking a lynch mob. I am not wearing white pants today or any other day. What gets me through is the same thing that got me through the 80's, the Messier days and the Cloutier era - simple indifference! I will watch this team as always, but I will reserve my emotional investment for a new era.
Yep, got it.

But you might not have to wait that long.

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