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Old
05-09-2013, 07:13 AM
  #1
vorky
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Discussion at KHL subforum

I had to create this OT thread because some thing must be discussed and there is no other appropirate thread for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BalticWarrior View Post
Oh just **** both of you Jussi and Vorky,keep this thread to trades rumours and FA talk. :
Quote:
Originally Posted by tohaa View Post
the whole khl forum is pretty frustrating because of a few people, the Jussi dude not being one of them, it's the Russian guys with strong (stupid) opinions and poor communication skills...
What is the problem? Discussion is about different opinions. Not everyone likes or support NHL monopol on world hockey.

I disagree with tohaa. Jussi is one of people who makes this subforum frustrating in my opinion.

if you dont like statements "nobody will ask euro leagues/fans about KHL expansion plan", so it is your problem. Reality is that nobody will ask them. Evidence - nobody asked czech fans if they want KHL in Prague. Nobody asked czech federation if they want KHL in Prague (formally yes, but you have no idea what is backround). The same can happen in Finland, Germany, Sweden, others. Like it or not. That is reality, policy.

So yes, we can have opinions what is best for national leagues. If is better KHL, domestic leagues or Champions League. But, but we change nothing and I dont know if it is good to discuss about "ideal/dreaming situation" or reality. I prefer reality but see dreams.

The same with international calendar, NHL transfer agreement and other topics which are conflicted.

Swedes/Finns bring the idea of unique nations which loves rivarlies. OK, I respect it and understand but it must be said that NOBODY will ask them if they want KHL team in their country. If KHL thinks that it will work, so we will see swedish/finnish KHL teams (btw, I am not saying we will).

Disargeement in discussion is not dishonor other posters or ignoring his/their point of view. It is pure experiance, at least in my case, that "dreams" are not reality.

The last but not least, KHL does not care if euro leagues will be ruined or the club not joining KHL from these countries will be ruined/ have less prestige etc. The same, NHL does not care about Europe and majority of people, at least here, shares the opinion. At least, does not show disagreement.

Hope, we can have good discussion in future. There is many people who know a lot about league and it is not fair to attack them because they dont share opinion of majority.

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Old
05-09-2013, 07:53 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
What is the problem?
Problem is not your or anyone's else opinion. Problem is lies in the fact that there are two rival sides that voice same old arguments (using even the exact same sentences no less) in every thread they manage to find here. It frustrating for anyone who doesn't have a strong stance in this message board war.

Just for fun I'll point out my favorites:

Russian prospect to NA? Peter25, vorky - he's ruined, Larionov and other evil agent conspiracy, funny money, etc.

Finnish team in KHL? Jussi or any random ''Scandinavian", - not gonna happen, rivalries, nation ''x'' don't care about Russia, etc.

I could continue, but I'm sure we've all seen examples of this, and not only in this sub forum.

I understand that no one here will ever change their stance, but, please, think about neutrals and freshen up your gig ffs.

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05-09-2013, 08:15 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozo View Post
Problem is not your or anyone's else opinion. Problem is lies in the fact that there are two rival sides that voice same old arguments (using even the exact same sentences no less) in every thread they manage to find here. It frustrating for anyone who doesn't have a strong stance in this message board war.

Just for fun I'll point out my favorites:

Russian prospect to NA? Peter25, vorky - he's ruined, Larionov and other evil agent conspiracy, funny money, etc.

Finnish team in KHL? Jussi or any random ''Scandinavian", - not gonna happen, rivalries, nation ''x'' don't care about Russia, etc.


I could continue, but I'm sure we've all seen examples of this, and not only in this sub forum.

I understand that no one here will ever change their stance, but, please, think about neutrals and freshen up your gig ffs.
The "funny" part about the Russian prospect stuff is neither poster mentioned is a Russian...

I admit to playing a broken record but when there's misinformation spread around(like Jari Kurri being in St. Petersburg to meet Jukka Jalonen would mean = Finnish KHL club!!11!!), I'm so anally retentive that I must correct them. The Swedish posters have basically done the same as I have, corrected false assumptions about the hockey/sports cultures that people have of our nations.

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Old
05-09-2013, 08:16 AM
  #4
vorky
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fair argument but I have to add a few others.

I see nothing bad for repeating the opinion in cases you expressed. It is legitimate and everyone has right for it.

On the other hand there I rules I would say. Can I come to swedish subforum and critise Swedes for their policy to NHL (less NHL compensation for players)? Yes, I can but will be banned immidiatelly for trolling or whatever. On the other hand, the same behaviour is happening here by some people.

Some Scandinavians say HERE that "not gonna happen, rivalries, etc". Ok, but they dont respect opinion that this status quo does not have to be in future, near or far. And the most important, is it needed to have huge support in Sweden/etc of KHL to establish KHL team here? I dont think so. We can establish KHL club in Sweden with ZERO fans and support. So, no support (fans/media/clubs) is not a reason why not to establish swedish etc KHL. Really, it is not. Like it or not. Do you know what support Lev Prague had at the same time of 2012 among czech/prague fans? ZERO. You can find stats about attendacne from innaugural season. Yes, Sweden/Czech rep are not the same society, but swedish is not so unique.

To sum up, opinions of Scandinavians are based on wishes, no evidence.

On the other hand, we have cases when moving euro kids to NA was a bad step. Euro nations does not have so much kids playing hockey as Canada, we can not (even Russians/Swedes) efford ONE, ONE player to be ruined. That is the problem. And btw, do you know the guy, who is an author of current swedish developing programe? I know and I can say you that this guy has the same opinion - NO MOVING TO CHL/CANADA SO EARLY.

Other problem is financial compensation which is NOT paid by CHL clubs to euro clubs. I dont care that there are not deals, if CHL wanted, there would pay. The same NHL and bigger money.

To sum up. At least my opinions can not be compared to Jussi´s and co. because I am using FACTS and ANALYSIS. Big different. And believe me, even swedish hockey federation does not like moving kids to CHL, wants to stop it, fighting for bigger compensations but does not have power to achieve it.

I dont support status quo of interantional transfers, because it is ONE-SIDED, negative for european nations and their leagues/clubs. If you have no problem with it, I respect it, but wont support the idea.

So, your arguments are fair but does not true. They are not comparable. Transfers agreement can be fixed, at least KHL has power for it. KHL expansion can not be stopped by any nation, Europe does not have power to resist. So, you mixed two things which are different.


Last edited by vorky: 05-09-2013 at 08:27 AM.
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Old
05-09-2013, 08:39 AM
  #5
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I think that the Czech Ice Hockey Association would not allow entry KHL on our territory, if they were not convinced that it can help our hockey. A lot of fans think the same way, since there were first rumours about it.

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Old
05-09-2013, 09:02 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeez View Post
I think that the Czech Ice Hockey Association would not allow entry KHL on our territory, if they were not convinced that it can help our hockey. A lot of fans think the same way, since there were first rumours about it.
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