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Old
05-08-2013, 04:04 PM
  #301
Still All In
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigar City View Post
He just turned 18 in March, you can't seriously expect him to come in and have a significant role instantly. I think he will be able to step in and make an impact, but it is not the norm for 18yo prospects to come in and have a significant role from day 1.

As far as the selfish aspect, I just don't see it.

I also think the head down and skate/stick-handle his way out of trouble is over-blown.
From what I've looked at (Obviously not very much, like most of us), the only person that has blown him up was Strome....when they were on the same team. There are some good players in the CHL, and if you skate with your head down you're going to eventually get caught.
He seems very slippery to me. I don't usually like making comparisons, but I can make the Kane one in the sense that he seems to be very slippery on the ice and people don't usually run him clean. If you watch football, I would compare this attribute to Peyton Manning while he's in the pocket.

Obviously, the difference in the level of play between the juniors and the NHL is ridiculous, but I think the point is still valid.

We will see, though. (Hopefully, Maybe)
I'm not sure where you saw that I expected him to - if anything, i've been the person constantly saying "try to avoid expecting the world out of any kids under 21 coming to the roster".

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Old
05-08-2013, 05:26 PM
  #302
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Basically, after reading every scout article and SFY's latest comments on the draft, if we want Drouin/Mac we stand pat and draft at #3 (obvious). If we're looking at Nichushkin, we'll trade down and accumulate a couple more picks and draft him at #6 (I'd assume Calgary and Buffalo are most keen to trade up).

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05-08-2013, 06:56 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Still All In View Post
I'm not sure where you saw that I expected him to - if anything, i've been the person constantly saying "try to avoid expecting the world out of any kids under 21 coming to the roster".
If that is your universal rule for the kids, then fine. I just got the vibe that you didn't want Drouin and would rather do something else with the pick. Apologies if that's not the case.

...BUT IF IT IS!

NO ANTI-DROUINS!!!

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Old
05-08-2013, 08:28 PM
  #304
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If we go for anyone other than the big 3 than I'd be pretty pissed. Does anyone get the feeling that Tampa is phenomenal at drafting in rounds 2-7 but rather poor at it for the early picks? I mean, since Yzerman's tenure the two top 10 picks we've gotten were Connolly and Koekkoek. Both of them were followed by better picks according to consensus and my opinion personally:

6. Connolly
7. Skinner
8. Burmistrov
9. Granlund

10. Koekkoek
11. Forsberg
12. Grigorenko
13. Faksa
14. Girgensens
15. Ceci

Yeah they're both still young and could easily prove me wrong but I can't shake the feeling that both of them weren't the right picks. Every other pick from SFY's time here has been spot on and he's really found some gems though. It's still a small sample size and I'm probably making some rash judgement but is anyone else feeling this way too?

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Old
05-08-2013, 08:35 PM
  #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoekkoekPuffs View Post
If we go for anyone other than the big 3 than I'd be pretty pissed. Does anyone get the feeling that Tampa is phenomenal at drafting in rounds 2-7 but rather poor at it for the early picks? I mean, since Yzerman's tenure the two top 10 picks we've gotten were Connolly and Koekkoek. Both of them were followed by better picks according to consensus and my opinion personally:

6. Connolly
7. Skinner
8. Burmistrov
9. Granlund

10. Koekkoek
11. Forsberg
12. Grigorenko
13. Faksa
14. Girgensens
15. Ceci

Yeah they're both still young and could easily prove me wrong but I can't shake the feeling that both of them weren't the right picks. Every other pick from SFY's time here has been spot on and he's really found some gems though. It's still a small sample size and I'm probably making some rash judgement but is anyone else feeling this way too?
In the case of Koekkoek, I'd have to agree with you. The pick confused me then and has continued to befuddle me now. The only rational explanation was that we needed a defenseman (we were likely hoping for Trouba) and settled on Koekkoek who was the next defenseman on our list. I figured we'd go Forsberg once he slipped out of the top 5-6.

However, in the case of Connolly, he was definitely BPA and was in the discussion for 1st overall heading in the 2009-10 season until it was derailed by injuries. Granlund has immense skill but also struggled mightily in his first season in the NHL, while Skinner was sort of a pick out of left field.

I, too, hope we will go with whoever's left between Drouin/Mac at #3. I would rather be the team that went BPA and safely selected one of them than the one who took a gamble without trading down and selected one of Nichushkin or Barkov.

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Old
05-08-2013, 10:15 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Cigar City View Post
If that is your universal rule for the kids, then fine. I just got the vibe that you didn't want Drouin and would rather do something else with the pick. Apologies if that's not the case.

...BUT IF IT IS!

NO ANTI-DROUINS!!!
HEY HEY, SIMMER

Seriously though, love the dudes skillset. I have no doubt he'll be a great player in time, I just have my questions like very other kid. Had it with Connolly, had it with Vladdy.

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Old
05-09-2013, 01:03 AM
  #307
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1-5
http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/arti...articleid=1521

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Old
05-09-2013, 01:23 AM
  #308
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Drouin with 4 points tonight (1g 3a) and leads the Q in playoff scoring with 34 points in 16 games

I can't imagine drafting anyone but him


Last edited by The Wyzerhood: 05-09-2013 at 01:29 AM.
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05-09-2013, 01:50 AM
  #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tampa Bay Trio View Post
Drouin with 4 points tonight (1g 3a) and leads the Q in playoff scoring with 34 points in 16 games

I can't imagine drafting anyone but him
I hope everyone talking about him being the obvious choice doesn't jinx it and have Yzie draft Barkov/Nichushkin at 3.


Last edited by MattM92: 05-09-2013 at 01:58 AM.
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Old
05-09-2013, 08:52 AM
  #310
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Originally Posted by 2014cupwinners View Post
Drouin at #1?

Hope Florida doesn't steal him. Mackinnon is a fine pick at #3 (or even Jones ) but I'm keen on seeing Drouin develop as MSL's replacement.

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Old
05-09-2013, 11:11 AM
  #311
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Bolt Prospects ‏@BoltProspects 3 min
Unless he's putting up a smokescreen, I believe Murray has Nichushkin ranked No. 1 on the Lightning's list. Yzerman can override that.

Bolt Prospects ‏@BoltProspects 2 min
Transfer issues could affect the pick, obviously, but Yzerman has never been one to draft for immediate results. He'll take best in 5-7 yrs.

Bolt Prospects ‏@BoltProspects 2 min
If comes down to player type for slot (i.e. playmaking winger for Stamkos), he could go Drouin, but said Drouin isn't MSL caliber.

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Old
05-09-2013, 11:27 AM
  #312
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Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
Bolt Prospects ‏@BoltProspects 3 min
Unless he's putting up a smokescreen, I believe Murray has Nichushkin ranked No. 1 on the Lightning's list. Yzerman can override that.

Bolt Prospects ‏@BoltProspects 2 min
Transfer issues could affect the pick, obviously, but Yzerman has never been one to draft for immediate results. He'll take best in 5-7 yrs.

Bolt Prospects ‏@BoltProspects 2 min
If comes down to player type for slot (i.e. playmaking winger for Stamkos), he could go Drouin, but said Drouin isn't MSL caliber.
...oh god. Not that I'd be overly disappointed at drafting Nichushkin, just that if we don't trade down to get him it'll be a reach and gamble not worth taking. There are plenty of teams that would trade up to get Drouin and plenty of others that will pass of Nichushkin.

I pray to god every night that we draft Drouin.

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Old
05-09-2013, 11:29 AM
  #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
Bolt Prospects ‏@BoltProspects 3 min
Unless he's putting up a smokescreen, I believe Murray has Nichushkin ranked No. 1 on the Lightning's list. Yzerman can override that.

Bolt Prospects ‏@BoltProspects 2 min
Transfer issues could affect the pick, obviously, but Yzerman has never been one to draft for immediate results. He'll take best in 5-7 yrs.

Bolt Prospects ‏@BoltProspects 2 min
If comes down to player type for slot (i.e. playmaking winger for Stamkos), he could go Drouin, but said Drouin isn't MSL caliber.
Better trade down if you're taking him Yzerman. What could we get if we traded down to 5th?

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Old
05-09-2013, 11:37 AM
  #314
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Murray's track record with recommending first round picks has been awful. I say SFY overrides his "advice" and goes with Drouin. Let's form a petition or something

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05-09-2013, 11:38 AM
  #315
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Originally Posted by Tampa Bay Trio View Post
Not sure what you're getting at here besides 2004 being a relatively weak draft after the top 2.

Do you agree or disagree that Nichushkin is not the next Malkin? Regardless of the Russian factor, both Malkin and Ovechkin were seen as elite talents whom a team could build their franchise around.
I think he has the potential to be Malkin-level player. But I wouldn't bet on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by warrior4321 View Post
Better trade down if you're taking him Yzerman. What could we get if we traded down to 5th?
Well, with this info out.. maybe not so much. There is also no guarantee that Nichushkin is still there in that scenario at #5 though imo he will be.

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Old
05-09-2013, 11:46 AM
  #316
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Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
I think he has the potential to be Malkin-level player. But I wouldn't bet on it.

Well, with this info out.. maybe not so much. There is also no guarantee that Nichushkin is still there in that scenario at #5 though imo he will be.
For me, it's not whether or not Nichushkin will become a star, it's that if we drafted him at 3, there would have been other teams looking to move up to take Drouin. Surely, Calgary would be interested in drafting Drouin or Barkov at #3 and could be enticed in giving up their first round pick and either their 2nd or Pitt's 1st round pick.

Nichushkin and potentially a defenseman like Hagg or Mueller > Drouin.

Btw, Calgary drafts at 6 not 5. I could see Carolina going with Nurse at 5, though there is a risk they gamble and go with Nichushkin at 5. The HF mock draft had them selecting Monahan at 5 though...


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Old
05-09-2013, 12:55 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by KoekkoekPuffs View Post
If we go for anyone other than the big 3 than I'd be pretty pissed. Does anyone get the feeling that Tampa is phenomenal at drafting in rounds 2-7 but rather poor at it for the early picks? I mean, since Yzerman's tenure the two top 10 picks we've gotten were Connolly and Koekkoek. Both of them were followed by better picks according to consensus and my opinion personally:

6. Connolly
7. Skinner
8. Burmistrov
9. Granlund


Yeah they're both still young and could easily prove me wrong but I can't shake the feeling that both of them weren't the right picks. Every other pick from SFY's time here has been spot on and he's really found some gems though. It's still a small sample size and I'm probably making some rash judgement but is anyone else feeling this way too?
I dont get that feeling at all. I mean Skinner would not likely have cracked our top 6 as he did in Carolina. And he seems to be falling out of favour pretty fast, I mean -21 in 42 games this season, worst on the team! I doubt he has the same immediate impact for us.

Burmistrov hasn't really lit it up and I think he has a lower ceiling than Connolly. Burmistrov looks to be a decent #2 centre. Connolly could become a top line winger.

Granlund had a hard time cracking the Wild this season, 8 points in 27 games aged 20-21 (pro rated 24 point season), while Connolly in his 19-20 season put up 15 points in 68 games (pro rated 18 point season). Given he has had a year more development hardly blows him out the water.

I think, long term, which is where Yzerman seems to be focused, it will be a close call. Connolly looks like a pretty good choice so far, and I think we should give him a season or two more before claiming he was a bad pick at that spot. With those injuries/lack of seasoning in the WHL he was always going to be more long term (still surprised he made the NHL last season!)

Quote:
10. Koekkoek
11. Forsberg
12. Grigorenko
13. Faksa
14. Girgensens
15. Ceci
I think this is being judged far too early, none have made any impact at the NHL level. Koekkoek's injury is unfortunate. But skill wise he has it all. Sure I would have liked Grigorenko, but given his tool set I can see why Koekkoek was picked.

In a couple of years time you may have a point who knows. But I notice you haven't picked on the Namestnikov/Vasya picks? Whys that exactly?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tampa Bay Trio View Post
For me, it's not whether or not Nichushkin will become a star, it's that if we drafted him at 3, there would have been other teams looking to move up to take Drouin. Surely, Calgary would be interested in drafting Drouin or Barkov at #3 and could be enticed in giving up their first round pick and either their 2nd or Pitt's 1st round pick.

Nichushkin and potentially a defenseman like Hagg or Mueller > Drouin.

Btw, Calgary drafts at 6 not 5. I could see Carolina going with Nurse at 5, though there is a risk they gamble and go with Nichushkin at 5. The HF mock draft had them selecting Monahan at 5 though...
CGY 1st + PIT 1st for our 1st and im all over that IF SFY is confident Nickhushkin is better than Drouin and Carolina won't touch him.

But it is a risk as you said given Carolina, I don't see them drafting a dman, its not JR's strategy. Murphy last year sure, but that was an anomaly. If we are accepting the top 4 are Jones/Mackinnon/Drouin/Barkov. Nickushkin is risky to leave for 6. Sure theres Monahan. But can you risk it?

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Old
05-09-2013, 01:03 PM
  #318
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Nikita Alexeev and Alex Svitov come to mind when I think of taking Nichushkin at #3. I'm sure I will get **** for saying this because "different situation, etc." However, unless we are completely positive that he will be a slam dunk BAMF (Malkin, Kovalchuk, to a lesser extent Semin), I don't want a Russian forward that early in the 1st when more stable picks are there.

If you aren't familiar with Alexeev or Svitov, they were our 1st round picks in 2000 (8th overall) and 2001 (3rd overall). They were both "good sized" (6'6, 6'3) forwards. Their combined totals result in 338 NHL games played, 33 goals, 41 assists.

If our pick was 25, and the pick didn't work out, a franchise can still have a good draft. If you miss on the SERIOUS VALUE available at 3rd overall, it wastes all the suck we witnessed this season, and doesn't move the franchise in a good direction.

Basically...I don't see why we wouldn't take Drouin if he is there. Trading down is a different story, but at #3? Drouin.

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Old
05-09-2013, 01:25 PM
  #319
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Nikita Alexeev and Alex Svitov come to mind when I think of taking Nichushkin at #3. I'm sure I will get **** for saying this because "different situation, etc." However, unless we are completely positive that he will be a slam dunk BAMF (Malkin, Kovalchuk, to a lesser extent Semin), I don't want a Russian forward that early in the 1st when more stable picks are there.

If you aren't familiar with Alexeev or Svitov, they were our 1st round picks in 2000 (8th overall) and 2001 (3rd overall). They were both "good sized" (6'6, 6'3) forwards. Their combined totals result in 338 NHL games played, 33 goals, 41 assists.

If our pick was 25, and the pick didn't work out, a franchise can still have a good draft. If you miss on the SERIOUS VALUE available at 3rd overall, it wastes all the suck we witnessed this season, and doesn't move the franchise in a good direction.

Basically...I don't see why we wouldn't take Drouin if he is there. Trading down is a different story, but at #3? Drouin.
This 100%. At #3, I only want Drouin. If we trade down, then Nichushkin will do just fine.

They say this draft is the best since 2003 and I have flashbacks to CBJ selecting Zherdev.

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05-09-2013, 01:26 PM
  #320
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This 100%. At #3, I only want Drouin. If we trade down, then Nichushkin will do just fine.
I agree with this.

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Old
05-09-2013, 01:42 PM
  #321
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I agree with this.
This.

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05-09-2013, 01:46 PM
  #322
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It's common for scouts to drool all over themselves when they see a big kid with a lot of skill. If the Bolts are thinking about Nichushkin, I would just ask that they spend a lot of time talking to him before calling his name, to try to figure out what he has between the ears. Hopefully, this is the last top ten pick we have for a long time, be careful with it.

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05-09-2013, 01:57 PM
  #323
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Anyone claiming/worrying that Drouin is soft or not physical has not watched him play enough. I've been following Halifax relatively closely in the Q playoffs and I believe he is the player that makes them tick. He's more than willing to engage in battles along the boards and will throw a hit or two a game. He's not a physical presence by any means, but he has the mentality to battle that we're looking for, slightly different to that of a Pat Kane.

Most recent example was game 3 of the Baie-Comeau series where JD was the victim of a brutal knee on knee check where Alexandre Ranger was consequently suspended for. During JD's absence, the Drakkar scored the GWG and ultimately an empty netter when JD eventually returned. Following that game and the knee on knee hit, JD responded with a 4 point performance last night to give the Moose a 3-1 lead in the series. Not only that, but JD put the team on his shoulders during the regular season in Mac's absence, putting to rest any claims that he was a product of playing with Mac.

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05-09-2013, 03:33 PM
  #324
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No more Russians.

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05-09-2013, 04:21 PM
  #325
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In a couple of years time you may have a point who knows. But I notice you haven't picked on the Namestnikov/Vasya picks? Whys that exactly?
They were both later on in the first round, so I figured it might just be for the top 10/15 that Tampa isn't as good at drafting. But certainly from late first round and beyond I don't have any issues with SFY and Murray.

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