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What if Thornton had not been traded?

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Old
09-24-2006, 02:20 PM
  #26
dcav
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Originally Posted by Bruinster View Post
I don't want to piss on your parade, but What Chara ever win with a team load of superb talent ? If Thornton Bruins was complacent and underachieved, How can you call the Chara's Senators ?
very true. The Senators have Stanley Cup expectations every year with the emense talent the have, yet they never get there. Even with Mr Chara.

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09-24-2006, 02:29 PM
  #27
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Good stuff Mike B. and Bruinster. To the others that are sick of it, oh well, too bad so sad.

I've come to terms with it in this way.........Joe was the sacrificial lamb to get rid of MOC. Had that trade not happened, MOC is still here, there is no renewed front office, no new attitude Bruins, and we stink for years to come. Kinda like the lesser of two evils. All hail Saint Joe.

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09-24-2006, 02:33 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Bruinster View Post
I don't want to piss on your parade, but What Chara ever win with a team load of superb talent ? If Thornton Bruins was complacent and underachieved, How can you call the Chara's Senators ?
That's because the grass is always greener on the other side.......until you have to mow it yourself. Before you guys slam me, that's not a knock on Chara, by any means.

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09-24-2006, 02:36 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Bruinster View Post
I don't want to piss on your parade, but What Chara ever win with a team load of superb talent ? If Thornton Bruins was complacent and underachieved, How can you call the Chara's Senators ?
Team Lalime?

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09-24-2006, 02:49 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Backin72 View Post
Good stuff Mike B. and Bruinster. To the others that are sick of it, oh well, too bad so sad.

I've come to terms with it in this way.........Joe was the sacrificial lamb to get rid of MOC. Had that trade not happened, MOC is still here, there is no renewed front office, no new attitude Bruins, and we stink for years to come. Kinda like the lesser of two evils. All hail Saint Joe.
Good stuff is right Terry. If I've gotta eat a weak Thornton transaction to lose the junk; works for me too. I'm very happy about a the new direction, and with that it makes me feel better, and assured we won't be sawing off our noses to spite our frontispieces again. If they get that stooopid again -- I'd go postal.

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09-24-2006, 02:54 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Gary View Post
LOL...I -JUST- posted this on the Habs board, then this was the next post I looked at but it fits in here also...

Softness is one issue, softness from your big $$$ players is another. I agree with you 100%. I'm a Bruins fan and nice to see someone bring up the topic. Thornton was playing soft as heck for the B's last year...and the team followed suit. I'm sure alot of guys were thinking in the back on their minds "This guy is getting 7 million and dont throw a check. For 1.2 million, why the heck should I?"

By contrast, Chara got a real bad ankle bruise blocking a Souray shot in one of our preseason games. Dave Lewis said following that, something along the lines of "What Chara did there is send a message to the team. If he's willing to injure himself in a meaningless game, then other players on the team better take note. He just set the bar for everyone else in the lineup."

To add to a cliche..."Your best players need to be your best players AND set a example to the rest of the team while doing so."

In retrospect...No matter what line Kovalev or Samsonov are playing on they need to show passion and lead by example.

Excellent post. It speaks my thoughts as well on the subject.

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09-24-2006, 02:58 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Gary View Post
LOL...I -JUST- posted this on the Habs board, then this was the next post I looked at but it fits in here also...

Softness is one issue, softness from your big $$$ players is another. I agree with you 100%. I'm a Bruins fan and nice to see someone bring up the topic. Thornton was playing soft as heck for the B's last year...and the team followed suit. I'm sure alot of guys were thinking in the back on their minds "This guy is getting 7 million and dont throw a check. For 1.2 million, why the heck should I?"

By contrast, Chara got a real bad ankle bruise blocking a Souray shot in one of our preseason games. Dave Lewis said following that, something along the lines of "What Chara did there is send a message to the team. If he's willing to injure himself in a meaningless game, then other players on the team better take note. He just set the bar for everyone else in the lineup."

To add to a cliche..."Your best players need to be your best players AND set a example to the rest of the team while doing so."

In retrospect...No matter what line Kovalev or Samsonov are playing on they need to show passion and lead by example.
QFT. This should be printed and given to everyone here.

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Old
09-24-2006, 03:49 PM
  #33
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Does anyone really care anymore?

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09-24-2006, 04:05 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by SToMper! View Post
Does anyone really care anymore?
Some do, some don't. Whatever way you feel, is OK.

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09-24-2006, 04:17 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B. View Post
This is from a comment MB made in another thread...

Let's assume that the Bruins would have stunk and drafted Kessel even if Thornton had stayed. Two of the three players the Bruins (Stuart and Sturm) picked up played huge roles for the team after the deal, and some of the void left by Joe's departure was filled by Bergeron and Boyes. So, assume Kessel is here either way, along with Murray, Bergeron, Boyes, Axelsson. Assume also that the Bruins signed Bergeron for two years instead of five, at a much lower cap hit. So, the 2006-07 cost of Stuart, Sturm, Primeau, and Bergeron would be almost exactly the same as the cost of Thornton, Bergeron (signed to a shorter, cheaper deal), and 2 minimum salary guys at forward and defense. (Signing Bergeron to the smaller deal would amount to short term gain in exchange for longer term pain, so I count his deal as sort of a fringe benefit to making the trade.)

Look at the forwards first. I'll list the 2006-07 team without Thornton, and then use parentheses to list the guys who'd be here instead, had there been no Thornton trade:

Marc Savard (Joe Thornton)
Glen Murray
Phil Kessel
Patrice Bergeron
Brad Boyes
Marco Sturm (????)
PJ Axelsson
Shean Donovan
Wayne Primeau (????)
Petr Kalus
Mark Mowers
Yan Stastny
Wade Brookbank

Had the deal not been made, the Bruins still could have signed Donovan, Mowers, and Brookbank. Stastny's here becasue I assumed that the Samsonov trade still happened. I also put Petr Kalus on the team, although he could go back to junior with his spot taken by a Hoggan or a Tenkrat. Let's hope not...

On defense:

Zdeno Chara
Brad Stuart (????)
Paul Mara
Andrew Alberts
Milan Jurcina
Jason York
Nathan Dempsey
Mark Stuart*

Even with Thornton on board, the money would still have been there for signing the big guy (although he would have had no shot at the C). So, assume he's locked in for the same amount. The Nick Boynton/Paul Mara trade is basically a wash in terms of money, so figure that it would have happened either way.

As far as money goes... if Thornton had stayed, the Marc Savard signing would never have happened. Since Savard's cap number is $5 million, that is the amount of money the Bruins would have had to replace the three Thornton-trade guys in the lineup. A #2 defenseman, a top 6 forward who played like a first line guy after we got him, and a plugger. Getting by without Primeau would not have been too difficult, but $5 million would not go far in replacing Stuart and Sturm. The Bruins could have brought in a top FA replacement for one of the two, and relied on a cheap veteran or kid to fill the other slot.

In the longer term, they would be facing difficult renegotiations with Thornton, Bergeron, and Boyes instead of Stuart, Sturm, and Boyes.

Would they be better off in 2006-07 having never made the deal? What about the long term?
If Thornton stayed there would have been no change of direction. Chara would not have signed, Savard would not have signed. The Thornton trade is what got the change of direction going. A bad trade makes a team better sometimes. The only time I like JT was when Pat Burns was coaching the team, make that the first year.
What if? what if? What if there was no internet?

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Old
09-24-2006, 04:19 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by tape-2-tape View Post
Joe is now........ history. Is it possible to make threads such as this, history as well?

No disrespect intended but, this is really getting old fast.
I second dat emotion.....the 'woulda-shoulda-coulda' threads are killing me.

"IS IT HOCKEY YET!?!?!?!?!

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Old
09-24-2006, 04:46 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by DKH View Post
The Thornton trade in the end will be for the best because without it we don't have all the changes. Joe is a super player and I wish him the best but right now this organization has not looked better for 25 years imo. When the board is so unsure of what to complain about they have to start critiquing the concessions I'd say the Bruins are doing some positive things.
I think this post says it best. I doubt we would have Chara under other circumstances and changes HAD to be made.

Incredibly stupid trade, but it's over and done with and it's time to move on.

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Old
09-24-2006, 05:08 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Don Cherry View Post
I think this post says it best. I doubt we would have Chara under other circumstances and changes HAD to be made.

Incredibly stupid trade, but it's over and done with and it's time to move on.
I completely agree it's time to move on, but why if someone put Thornton name in a thread it turn like into a circus eaches time.

People, Thornton is a ex-bruins like Neely, Orr, Bourque and any others so why if its someone desire to talk about Joe someone come and want to shut up everyone mouth.

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Old
09-24-2006, 05:51 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Bruinster View Post
I completely agree it's time to move on, but why if someone put Thornton name in a thread it turn like into a circus eaches time.
I think it turns into a circus every time because there are basically two groups who post on the subject.

There's those who desparately *want* to believe that it was a good trade (snicker) so they grasp at straws to try to prove it. Some of their reasons why it was a "good trade" (snicker) are truly amazing.

Then there are those of us who admit that it was one of the dumbest trades in league history and that we traded one of our all-time greatest players for a bunch of so-so players that are also soon-to-be free agents.

I think it's time for both groups to move on. We have Chara now and a new era is about to begin.

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Old
09-24-2006, 05:58 PM
  #40
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Habs fan here
Guys, I hate you. I hate your team and I hate every players on your rosters. BUT. Let's move on guy. Joe Thornton is gone and what he bring to you until now ? How many Cup ? Heck. How many series won ? How many Art Ross ? Ew

The guy dont bring you much. It was the right thing to do to trade him away (in the West !!!!), you dont get as much as you should, but you make the right choice.

Bergeron is a leader and he's already a better playoff performer than Thornton. You save money for Chara. Ok, he's not da man in playoff but he's one of the 7-8 best defensmans in the whole league. You wouldnt have ends that low with King Thornton and, by this way, you wouldnt have the chance to pick Kessel. Nor Backstrom.

Joe Thornton suck.

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Old
09-24-2006, 06:05 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by KaptainKourage View Post
Habs fan here
Guys, I hate you. I hate your team and I hate every players on your rosters. BUT. Let's move on guy. Joe Thornton is gone and what he bring to you until now ? How many Cup ? Heck. How many series won ? How many Art Ross ? Ew

The guy dont bring you much. It was the right thing to do to trade him away (in the West !!!!), you dont get as much as you should, but you make the right choice.

Bergeron is a leader and he's already a better playoff performer than Thornton. You save money for Chara. Ok, he's not da man in playoff but he's one of the 7-8 best defensmans in the whole league. You wouldnt have ends that low with King Thornton and, by this way, you wouldnt have the chance to pick Kessel. Nor Backstrom.

Joe Thornton suck.
OK, Now look in your own yard, what Koivu bring to his team ? 2 series win, 0 stanley cup, 0 Art Ross, You can label almost 90% maybe even more of players of the NHL with this tag !!!

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09-24-2006, 07:35 PM
  #42
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41 posts minus the 5 or so "who cares" whiners...seems like some people care and are enjoying the discussion. Those who aren't, well you can ignore this thread and start one you might be interested in.

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09-24-2006, 07:38 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaptainKourage View Post
Habs fan here
Guys, I hate you. I hate your team and I hate every players on your rosters. BUT. Let's move on guy. Joe Thornton is gone and what he bring to you until now ? How many Cup ? Heck. How many series won ? How many Art Ross ? Ew

The guy dont bring you much. It was the right thing to do to trade him away (in the West !!!!), you dont get as much as you should, but you make the right choice.

Bergeron is a leader and he's already a better playoff performer than Thornton. You save money for Chara. Ok, he's not da man in playoff but he's one of the 7-8 best defensmans in the whole league. You wouldnt have ends that low with King Thornton and, by this way, you wouldnt have the chance to pick Kessel. Nor Backstrom.

Joe Thornton suck.
I hear the wind blew in Montreal today, and Saku Koivu broke a ribeiro.

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Old
09-24-2006, 07:42 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by KaptainKourage View Post
Habs fan here
Guys, I hate you. I hate your team and I hate every players on your rosters.
Le sentiment mutuel !

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Old
09-24-2006, 07:58 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Bri View Post
41 posts minus the 5 or so "who cares" whiners...seems like some people care and are enjoying the discussion. Those who aren't, well you can ignore this thread and start one you might be interested in.
No offense Bri, but this topic has been discussed to death, even had its own dedicated thread and continues to be brought up over and over again. If we were to go on a playoff run, win 15 games and fail in game 7 of the final, there will still be people who'd drag this issue up again.
Its not only 5 of us who see this as non-sense, but there are many others, including mods here that have seen this discussion drag on and on and on.

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Old
09-24-2006, 08:40 PM
  #46
Lady Rhian
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Originally Posted by Bruinster View Post
OK, Now look in your own yard, what Koivu bring to his team ? 2 series win, 0 stanley cup, 0 Art Ross, You can label almost 90% maybe even more of players of the NHL with this tag !!!
At least Koivu did that much. Let's not forget the man also struggled with a terrible illness for part of his career. At least he plays with heart.

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Old
09-24-2006, 08:41 PM
  #47
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For shure the team will be solide because joe and sullivan d'int had a god relationship. but Joe Gone and bruins are Back so let the past cross the line Bros.

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Old
09-24-2006, 08:43 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Don Cherry View Post
There's those who desparately *want* to believe that it was a good trade (snicker) so they grasp at straws to try to prove it. Some of their reasons why it was a "good trade" (snicker) are truly amazing.

Then there are those of us who admit that it was one of the dumbest trades in league history and that we traded one of our all-time greatest players for a bunch of so-so players that are also soon-to-be free agents.
I feel the same way about those who are anti-trade Joe- grasping at straws as to why he should have stayed.

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09-24-2006, 08:46 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by ranold26 View Post
No offense Bri, but this topic has been discussed to death, even had its own dedicated thread and continues to be brought up over and over again. If we were to go on a playoff run, win 15 games and fail in game 7 of the final, there will still be people who'd drag this issue up again.
Its not only 5 of us who see this as non-sense, but there are many others, including mods here that have seen this discussion drag on and on and on.
No offense taken, but if you're at a party and enter a room and inform everyone in that room that the topic of conversation is old and shouldnt be happening, most people would think you are being rude.

The board is like your TV...you don't have to watch every station, and if there is something on one that you don't like, hopefully you'll find something better on the next one.

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09-24-2006, 09:20 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Bri View Post
No offense taken, but if you're at a party and enter a room and inform everyone in that room that the topic of conversation is old and shouldnt be happening, most people would think you are being rude.

The board is like your TV...you don't have to watch every station, and if there is something on one that you don't like, hopefully you'll find something better on the next one.
Well said. There are many threads that I don't read because I'm NOT INTERESTED. There's lots of rehashing of all types of subjects........I just ignore instead of complaining. Be pro-active, If you don't like something don't read it and don't whine about it. There's lots of other threads to be active in.

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