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Old
05-09-2013, 11:25 AM
  #151
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
That's you, you pick no. How about the parents who's kids are at elite levels that want to be able to give their kids the best skills possible at the earliest? How about the kids that are having fun in the hitting leagues?

Can't wait to see in 10 years when we lose that Canadian edge we have in international tournaments.

Shouldn't shock me though the coddling that kids get nowadays is sickening.
Move to Saskatchewan.

Again you guys keep ignoring the studies that state there is no proven benefit to teaching kids to hit at an earlier age will reduce their risk of injury.

The QMJHL has won the last 2 Memorial Cups and they have no hitting in PeeWee. How can this be? Those kids must take a beating cause they never learned to hit early? How can they win a Memorial Cup when Western kids and Ontario kids CLEARLY have an advantage and better skill set because they have 2 more years of hitting experience!

Coddling, I know its sickening how we science & studies improve life expectancy and it ends up hurting us in the long run. D@mn seatblets! Soap, who needs it?! Drinking and driving... my old man never got hurt. All these stupid rules are really hurting society.

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05-09-2013, 11:26 AM
  #152
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that pretty much sums up his argument.

If we take it from the 10-11 year olds. Well we may just as well take it away from everyone if we go by the studies.

It addresses nothing concerning the long term health of the children which is really the heart of the debate.

It's just an emotional rally flag used to spur strong feelings against "The Man" trying to keep us down. "Ahh they'll make a study for anything."
Actually that has nothing to do with my argument. I should have known better than to simply ask for reflection and clarity.

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05-09-2013, 11:28 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Moneypuck View Post
Looks as though Hockey Alberta is concerned about drop off at this level. How do we know this isn't just a cash grab to keep kids and their parents in the game paying through the nose to give little Joey something to do.

Appears to me to be more cash grab than a safety issue.
:

that's right and their also doing it to save money in the Health system by reducing hockey injuries and concussions that need to be treated. Oh, it reduce emergency room wait times too! Bonus!

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05-09-2013, 11:28 AM
  #154
Joe Hallenback
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Woh! Now we're talking death! We're still learning about the effects of multiple concussions and how they impact people 10, 20 or 30 years down the road. I take it you've personnally interviewed and medically assessed the 1000s of hockey players you've coached, played with and scouted?

There's no Little Johnny Hockey because there wasn't this awareness around concussion 15 years ago! They weren't diagnosed or understood like they are today (and today they're not well understood either). Post-concussion symptoms range from dizziness to memory loss to headaches (and more).... losing the ability to speak is not a symptom.

You think you're the only guy on here that's been around hockey for decades? You think none of the cuys on the Hockey AB panel have been around hockey for decades? You don't think the Mayo clinic has any hockey background?

Rick Martin had one diagnosed concussion and autopsy on his brain showed degenrative brain disease. Talk to Wayne Primeau and Eric Lindros and Brett Lindros about it.

There's an example for all you teach it younger. Lindros played in ON where checking was allowed in PeeWee and he's one of the worst for having his head down.

You are talking about adults. They suffered these concussions when they played as adults. They also knew the consequences of playing with a head injury and continued to do so.

There isn't a state of emergency in pewee hockey of kids getting concussed left and right because it doesn't happen to them.

It is knee jerk reaction. The simple answer is if you or your kid doesn't want to play a contact sport then go do something else.

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05-09-2013, 11:29 AM
  #155
joestevens29
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Originally Posted by Bobblehead View Post
Move to Saskatchewan.

Again you guys keep ignoring the studies that state there is no proven benefit to teaching kids to hit at an earlier age will reduce their risk of injury.

The QMJHL has won the last 2 Memorial Cups and they have no hitting in PeeWee. How can this be? Those kids must take a beating cause they never learned to hit early? How can they win a Memorial Cup when Western kids and Ontario kids CLEARLY have an advantage and better skill set because they have 2 more years of hitting experience!

Coddling, I know its sickening how we science & studies improve life expectancy and it ends up hurting us in the long run. D@mn seatblets! Soap, who needs it?! Drinking and driving... my old man never got hurt. All these stupid rules are really hurting society.
I can play that game too, the last 5 first overall picks didn't come from the QMJHL.

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05-09-2013, 11:30 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Bobblehead View Post
Again you guys keep ignoring the studies that state there is no proven benefit to teaching kids to hit at an earlier age will reduce their risk of injury.
Where is study #2? So far I only see references to one.

Also, no need to degenerate into hyperpole at the end of your writing. You are doing a fine job of representing your case for people to see without getting into insults and ridiculousness.

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05-09-2013, 11:42 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1 View Post
Where is study #2? So far I only see references to one.

Also, no need to degenerate into hyperpole at the end of your writing. You are doing a fine job of representing your case for people to see without getting into insults and ridiculousness.
I'm just pointing out how scientific study and application of those findings have increased lifespans and quality of life....... if you got offended, sorry, but I'm getting frustrated with people arguing against facts and scientific research and using personal bias and opinions while completely disregarding experts.

http://tnchl.com/facts.asp
http://pediatrics.aappublications.or.../e143.abstract

also see......
Gulli C. The damage done. Maclean’s 2011 Feb. 4: 50-4.
NHL .com ; 2010 Mar. 12. Available: www.nhl.com/ice /news
.htm?id=545327#&navid=nhl-search (accessed 2011 Mar. 21).
Goodman D, Gaetz M, Meichenbaum D. Concussions in hockey:
There is cause for concern. Med Sci Sports Exerc 2001; 33:2004-9.
Macpherson A, Rothman L, Howard A. Body-checking rules and
childhood injuries in ice hockey. Pediatrics 2006;117:e143-7.
Hagel BE, Marko J, Dryden D, et al. Effect of bodychecking on
injury rates among minor ice hockey players. CMAJ 2006;
175:155-60.
Mölsä J, Kujala U, Myllynen P, et al. Injuries to the upper
extremity in ice hockey: analysis of a series of 760 injuries. Am J
Sports Med 2003;31:751-7.
Emery CA, Kang J, Shrier I, et al. Risk of injury associated with
body checking among youth ice hockey players. JAMA 2010;
303: 2265-72.
Echlin PS, Tator CH, Cusimano MD, et al. A prospective study
of physician-observed concussion during junior ice hockey:
implications for incidence rates. Neurosurg Focus 2010;29:E4.
Grady MF. Concussion in the adolescent athlete. Curr Probl
Pediatr Adolesc Health Care 2010;40:154-69.
Purcell L, Carson J. Sport-related concussion in pediatric athletes.
Clin Pediatr (Phila) 2008;47:106-13.
Moser RS, Schatz P, Jordan BD. Prolonged effects of concussion
in high school athletes. Neurosurgery 2005;57:300-6.
McCrory P, Collie A, Anderson V, et al. Can we manage sport
related concussion in children the same as in adults? Br J Sports
Med 2004;38:516-9.
Boutin D, Lassonde M, Robert M, et al. Neurophysiological
assessment prior to and following sports-related concussion during
childhood: a case study. Neurocase 2008;14:239-48.
Bey T, Ostick B. Second impact syndrome. West J Emerg Med
2009; 10:6-10.
Collins MW, Lovell MR, Iverson GL, et al. Cumulative effects
of concussion in high school athletes. Neurosurgery 2002; 51:
1175-79.
McKee AC, Cantu RC, Nowinski CJ, et al. Chronic traumatic
encephalopathy in athletes: progressive tauopathy following repetitive
head injury. J Neuropathol Exp Neurol 2009;68:709-35.
Center for the Study of Traumatic Encephalopathy — Boston
University. 18 year old high school football player. Boston
(MA): The Center; 2009. Available: www.bu.edu/cste/case
-studies /18 -year-old/ (accessed 2011 Feb. 8).
Cusimano MD, Taback NA, McFaull SR, et al. Effect of bodychecking
on rate of injuries among minor hockey players. Open
Med 2011;5:E57-64.
Analysis
CMAJ, May 17, 2011, 183(8) 923
Marchie A, Cusimano MD. Bodychecking and concussion in ice
hockey: Should our youth pay the price? CMAJ 2003;169:124-8.
Safety in youth ice hockey: the effects of body checking. American

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05-09-2013, 11:46 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
There was more than 2 options. Why is the third option not being talked about or swept under the rug?

As mentioned numerous times in this thread, third option is having 2 different leagues.
More than that. Where are the studies about starting hitting in Novice? In Atom? 2 different leagues? Having it all age year specific group. How bout enforcing the actual rules. How bout a 5 game suspension for hitting from behind?
Its frankly obscene none of theseoptions were even discussed.
Its clear, the whole issue is hi jacked by a few who want & get a predetermined result.

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05-09-2013, 11:48 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Bobblehead View Post
If you got offended, sorry, but I'm getting frustrated with people arguing against facts and scientific research and using personal bias and opinions while completely disregarding experts.
Not offended, no worries, just don't want to see your side of things degraded. A good discussion requires multiple quality views.

Stick to what you've been putting out there. We could get into a discussion of behavior and/vs rules generally, but that's far beyond hockey. This topic is fairly focused.

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05-09-2013, 11:48 AM
  #160
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Like I said. I wish they had looked at other options. Checking in PeeWee or no checking in PeeWee, based on the data and research I pick no checking every time.

A viable third or fourth option I would be interested in hearing about it. I don't think leaving the choice up to the parents or kids is right either (contact vs non contact). Many kids would be pushed or influenced by the same attitudes expressed here. Let's just look after the best interest of the majority. I think they could've done something to help the transition when they do bring in contact.

My oldest is in Novice and we have wingnuts who are convinced their kid will make the show. I'm an advocate for kids having fun, learning life & hockey skills and getting physical activity. We're training a bunch of future doctors, lawyers, teachers, firemen, roughnecks and bus drivers to be beer league hockey players. That's what the vast majority of these kids will become. The glory of Canada's hockey supremacy... I don't give a crap as long as the kids are having fun.
Yeah, & you had the option of little Johnny playing in a no hit league.
But of course in the nanny state, we should all be told what we have to do.

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05-09-2013, 11:52 AM
  #161
Bobblehead
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For the safety of Canadian children and youth. From injury data to preventive measures. Ottawa: Health Canada; 1997.


Macpherson A, Rothman L, Howard H. Body checking rules and childhood injuries in ice hockey. Pediatrics 2006;117:e143-7.


Montelpare WJ, McPherson MN. Measuring the effects of initiating body checking at the Atom age level. In: Pearsall DJ, Ashare AB, editors. Safety in ice hockey: fourth volume. West Conshohocken (PA): American Society for Testing and Materials International; 2004. p. 70-84.


Regnier G, Boileau R, Marcotte G, et al. Effects of body checking in the pee-wee (12-and 13-years-old) division in the province of Quebec. In: Castaldi CR, Hoerner EF, editors. Safety in ice hockey. Philadelphia: American Society for Testing and Materials; 1989. p. 84-103.


Roy M, Bernard D, Roy B, et al. Body checking in pee wee hockey. Phys Sportsmed 1989;17:119-26.


Dryden D, Rowe BH, Hagel BE, et al. Bodychecking in youth hockey is dangerous [letter]. Med Sci Sports Exerc 2006;38:799.


Trudel P, Bernard D, Boileau R, et al. Effects of an intervention strategy on body checking, penalties, and injuries in ice hockey. In: Ashare AB, editor. Safety in ice hockey: third volume. West Conshohocken (PA): American Society for Testing and Materials; 2000. p. 237-49.

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05-09-2013, 11:56 AM
  #162
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More than that. Where are the studies about starting hitting in Novice? In Atom? 2 different leagues? Having it all age year specific group. How bout enforcing the actual rules. How bout a 5 game suspension for hitting from behind?
Its frankly obscene none of theseoptions were even discussed.
Its clear, the whole issue is hi jacked by a few who want & get a predetermined result.
That's just it if you want the stats to say what you want they'll find a way.

Just ask Jonathan Willis

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05-09-2013, 11:56 AM
  #163
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Yeah, & you had the option of little Johnny playing in a no hit league.
I have no idea what you're saying?

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Originally Posted by Billybaroo View Post
But of course in the nanny state, we should all be told what we have to do.

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05-09-2013, 11:59 AM
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Like I said. I wish they had looked at other options. Checking in PeeWee or no checking in PeeWee, based on the data and research I pick no checking every time.

A viable third or fourth option I would be interested in hearing about it. I don't think leaving the choice up to the parents or kids is right either (contact vs non contact). Many kids would be pushed or influenced by the same attitudes expressed here. Let's just look after the best interest of the majority. I think they could've done something to help the transition when they do bring in contact.

My oldest is in Novice and we have wingnuts who are convinced their kid will make the show. I'm an advocate for kids having fun, learning life & hockey skills and getting physical activity. We're training a bunch of future doctors, lawyers, teachers, firemen, roughnecks and bus drivers to be beer league hockey players. That's what the vast majority of these kids will become. The glory of Canada's hockey supremacy... I don't give a crap as long as the kids are having fun.
This is what I struggle with too. Many people think that their kid is going to the show so they want contact in their games.

I don't see any tangible benefit of having hitting in lower level hockey. What are we trying to teach them by allowing hitting at age of 11/12..or even 13/14?

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05-09-2013, 12:01 PM
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Article from today. With the stroke of a pen, 500 11- and 12-year-old Alberta hockey players were just spared concussions next winter.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2013/05/08...o-protect-kids

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05-09-2013, 12:19 PM
  #166
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Article from today. With the stroke of a pen, 500 11- and 12-year-old Alberta hockey players were just spared concussions next winter.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2013/05/08...o-protect-kids
Imagine that. Taking out contact in a contact sport reduces injuries. Thats unbelievable news.
Somebody should lets football, rugby , lacrosse, wrestling, boxing... etc organizations know this.

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05-09-2013, 12:20 PM
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I have no idea what you're saying?



See, this is typical of the nannies. They feel that its a-ok to force EVERYBODY to do what they think is "right".

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05-09-2013, 12:24 PM
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This is what I struggle with too. Many people think that their kid is going to the show so they want contact in their games.

I don't see any tangible benefit of having hitting in lower level hockey. What are we trying to teach them by allowing hitting at age of 11/12..or even 13/14?
You see any tangiblee benefit in allowing tacklin, line play in football? Contact in rugby? Lacrosse? How bout running in long distance running (its hard on the legs)? Practicing hitting balls in golf (real hard on the back)?
I cant see any tangible benefit to any of that.
Other than of course, its part of the sport.

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05-09-2013, 12:24 PM
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Imagine that. Taking out contact in a contact sport reduces injuries. Thats unbelievable news.
Somebody should lets football, rugby , lacrosse, wrestling, boxing... etc organizations know this.
How many kids do you have? Have they ever been injured in a sport? How seriously?

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05-09-2013, 12:28 PM
  #170
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How many kids do you have? Have they ever been injured in a sport? How seriously?
Why not put your kids in a nhl? Or have them take up something else? Is the only option taking out contact altogether for everyone?

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05-09-2013, 12:28 PM
  #171
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You see any tangiblee benefit in allowing tacklin, line play in football? Contact in rugby? Lacrosse? How bout running in long distance running (its hard on the legs)? Practicing hitting balls in golf (real hard on the back)?
I cant see any tangible benefit to any of that.
Other than of course, its part of the sport.
I see tangible benefit to tackling in football. I don't see tangible benefit in leading with the head as a linebacker or running back.

The key skills in hockey are to promote cardio, hand eye coordination, and develop the physical skills. Teaching a kid to get violently hit to the head promotes what?

At what age in boxing do they allow the removal of head gear?
Do they allow you to put your shoulder into someone's chin in rugby?

The rest of your arguments are ridiculous.

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05-09-2013, 12:31 PM
  #172
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Why not put your kids in a nhl? Or have them take up something else? Is the only option taking out contact altogether for everyone?
Believe it or not, I am more speaking as a coach. My son is 11. Had his first year of Peewee. Loves to hit and is very disappointed that he won't be able to next year. He will be in hockey academy and would like to see how far he can take his hockey. I don't have a problem with my son hitting, or being hit. He wants to be an elite player.

I have seen a ton of bad hits on players that have zero chance of being anything but a recreational player. I saw a bunch of concussions this year. For a good majority of players, the body checking has zero benefit to the game or their amount of fun.

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05-09-2013, 12:35 PM
  #173
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See, this is typical of the nannies. They feel that its a-ok to force EVERYBODY to do what they think is "right".
Yeah, shame on us for doing what's in the best interest of the majority.

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05-09-2013, 12:36 PM
  #174
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Why not put your kids in a nhl? Or have them take up something else? Is the only option taking out contact altogether for everyone?
If you want hitting why not put your kids in lacrosse or football?

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05-09-2013, 12:39 PM
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Yeah, shame on us for doing what's in the best interest of the majority.
Whose best interest? What best interest? What majority?

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