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kelly sutherland beef with Canucks?

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Old
05-09-2013, 03:24 AM
  #126
oceanchild
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What's the largest margin in powerplays in a series? Would be interested to know if this series was an all timer. That would be a larger indicator of bais IMHO

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05-09-2013, 03:29 AM
  #127
Derp Kassian
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Sutherland in a bar in the Okanagan shooting the **** with buddies and saying he hates the Canucks was all I needed to hear even if it was hearsay

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05-09-2013, 03:46 AM
  #128
Smokey McCanucks
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This is the story of the Vancouver Canucks...the team the referees came to ****...for something that they never done...knocked out of the playoffs, but one time, they coulda been the champions of the world!

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05-09-2013, 06:15 AM
  #129
J Canuck
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Of course it should matter. Vast majority of calls and non-calls are judgement calls - can go either. If a player involved has a history of diving or a history of never diving or a history of "malignant" play then absolutely YES that knowledge should factor in how the ref makes the judgement call.

When making split second decisions on incomplete knowledge, reputation 100% should be taken into account.
At some point, they have to let go of reputation and call the actual play of the game before them. Matt Cooke gets the benefit of the doubt even when it comes to supplemental discipline, even when he hurts players. The Canucks never hurt anyone but themselves with the diving but they're still getting occasional supplemental discipline by unaccountable on-ice officials for plays from 2 years ago.

And people still haven't let the Canucks diving go, but they've already let the Sharks off the hook. If it was disgraceful then, it's disgraceful now, no matter which team.

Officiating didn't cost the series though, Canucks were losing fair and square. The officiating is costing the league, the whole league.

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05-09-2013, 07:46 AM
  #130
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Sutherland has definitely made himself an issue. I don't think it is because he is dishonest but because he has illustrated an absolute lack of judgment in many situations. Really you have to feel some pity for the NHL refs. They get no direction, no leadership and are mostly doing their best in the chaotic situation the League has created. The real target should be Bettman and the clearly incompetent Shanahan.

Far as the angst and repeated accusations toward the Canucks much of it results from the regional rivalries that exist in Canada and the rivalry that has come to exist b/w the Canucks and some of the major media sites in the U.S. Moreover, many in even the local media seemingly have little emotional connection to the team or outright dislike the Canucks. They have been all too willing to support criticisms of the team giving the criticism more credibility.

An example of the kind of regional dislikes is our own attitude toward places like Toronto. For example, how many of us actually want to see the major Toronto teams lose. How many take a quiet pleasure out of seeing Blue Jays lose, or the Leafs?. How many can't stand getting the Toronto media hype pushed down our throats?

And its works both ways. How do Calgary fans react when they go to a game and have half the place is rooting for the Canucks and boasting about their team and then the Canucks, over the last while, going on to win? Or the people in Edmonton? Naturally they get pi**ed off. Thus, they look for a way to discredit the team. According to some I have met, the same thing happened when the Oilers were good. Gretzky was a whiner and a bit of cheat. Messier was dirty. And the whole team was obnoxiously arrogant. And the refs definitely favoured them.

I would say that most Canadians don't want any other Canadian teams having much success because with that go the bragging rights. Therfore, they were all too willing to jump on any bandwagon that put down the Canucks. The Canucks didn't win because they were good but because they were crooked and used diving to win. This got repeated continuously by fans and press people from other places in Canada. It more or less came to a head with the CBC attacks on Burrows. This illustrated the carte blanche the media had to go after the Canucks.

Beyond this the Canucks got on the bad side of huge media places like Chicago and Boston. The American media jumped all over diving accusations to build up support for the American team. And the NHL certainly had no problem in this because building up hockey support in the US has always be priority #1. And certainly it had little problem in putting the black hats on people like Burrows and Kesler. Even the Sedins, two of the most honest players in the League, were somehow disreputable players. Whole team was in fact.

Ultimately the Canucks have been on the wrong end of regional antagonism that besets the country and on the wrong end of a powerful and often unfair media that can shape perceptions. The Canucks have not dived or feigned injury any more than any other team and its ludicrous to suggest it. But once a perception gets locked in, it is hugely difficult to change it. And the local media which you might think would fight back against this, especially people like Botchford (perhaps looking to get back to Toronto) and the radio guys have been all to ready to cement the accusations made against the team.

If in the end, if this has effected the refs and the calls on the team that is very difficult for us, as fans, to accept but there are lot more unfair things in the world. Maybe, it does us some good to understand how people, who suffer under biased stereotyping, feel when they get the bad end of other people's perceptions. Far as the local sports media go, I think we generally recognize how badly we are served by them.

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05-09-2013, 08:47 AM
  #131
Carl Carlson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orcatown View Post
Sutherland has definitely made himself an issue. I don't think it is because he is dishonest but because he has illustrated an absolute lack of judgment in many situations. Really you have to feel some pity for the NHL refs. They get no direction, no leadership and are mostly doing their best in the chaotic situation the League has created. The real target should be Bettman and the clearly incompetent Shanahan.
I agree with your point about the lack of direction and leadership. The NHL seems like its truly run as an old boys club rather than a properly setup major sports league. The whole reffing and discipline need a total overhaul. None of this will happen of course until there is a major change in the top and Bettman and his leadership team are dumped for a competent group of leaders. I have to say that I'd be shocked if that actually happened.

Orcatown the rest of your post was really good, I just didn't want to quote the whole thing.

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05-09-2013, 09:12 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Lindt View Post
I don't know why the whole world seems to think Bieksa called out the referees. He in fact called out the embellishment from the Sharks, saying that it makes it tough on the referees, because it is difficult to make split second judgement calls. There is a big difference.

That aside, after the Auger incident, I have zero confidence in the integrity of referees, and there is nothing I have seen since to change that.

Agreed. That really was the end of my innocence in this matter, as well. Before that, I really did believe that refs put an enormous amount of importance in the concept of fair play, sportsmanship, and the integrity of the game going forward.

Now nothing shocks me when it comes to the reffing in the NHL. It disgusts me, but I'm not surprised anymore.


Last edited by Bougieman: 05-09-2013 at 09:17 AM.
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05-09-2013, 09:34 AM
  #133
Alflives
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Originally Posted by Bougieman View Post
Agreed. That really was the end of my innocence in this matter, as well. Before that, I really did believe that refs put an enormous amount of importance in the concept of fair play, sportsmanship, and the integrity of the game going forward.

Now nothing shocks me when it comes to the reffing in the NHL. It disgusts me, but I'm not surprised anymore.
The Canucks need to shut their traps, and stop publically calling out refs. Play the game, and play hard-nosed. If there are bad calls (which there will be) play through them. Hockey players are known to play by a 'code', where they show respect of their teammates, and opponents. We as fans respect that in hockey players. That same level of respect should be awarded to the refs too, or it makes the team look horrible.

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05-09-2013, 09:43 AM
  #134
Alan Jackson
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Has anybody posted Botchford's take on this?

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/ho...415/story.html

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05-09-2013, 10:28 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by neksys View Post
I don't understand this persistent view that the Canucks brought this on themselves - that their history of diving, embellishing and whining has caught up with them.

It should not matter. These are referees in one of the "big 4" North American leagues. They are supposed to be the very best and most professional at their jobs.

Their only job is to referee individual games with impartiality and professionalism - they should not be looking at the logo on the front or the name on the back. Anything less is bush league.
But then you realize that the NHL is actually a bush league and is not like the NFL.

So given that, you need to realize that you need to play the game politically and that doesn't just mean lobbying, it means being the guys that get lobbied to (like Jeremy Jacobs).

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05-09-2013, 10:47 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Johnny Canucker View Post
Sutherland made an absolutely horrid call, but thats all it was.

Do people actually believe tht there is a conspiracy theory against us, where all the officals talk (perhaps in a whatsapp chat group) about making non calls and bad penalty calls ??? I can guarentee you these conversations dont happen. He is just a terrible official, thats all.

Nhl referees if anything would WANT us to win that game and force more playoff games as they get oaid approx 5k per playoff game that they ref. also with the amount if eyes on them, making a purposeful bad call would ensure they wont get more playoff games thus potentially taking an additional 20-40k out of their pocket.

No official hates us enough to take 40k out of their pockets
You really don't believe that people get together and make plans with their co-workers and discuss issues and gameplans?

In the Canadian Business article I posted (http://www.canadianbusiness.com/life...rland-referee/) which had an interview with Sutherland it actually states:

"How do officials prepare for the fights and hits that might take place?

...If Iím working a game where something happened on the ice, and at the time there was no retaliation, but I see that one of my comrades has those two teams coming up again, Iíll shoot him an e-mail or drop him a phone call. Itís a fresh start each game, but youíve got to have the intel going in. Youíve got to let it happen, but at least youíre aware of it, and youíre prepared to react immediately."

Officials take a lot of abuse. How do you keep your head in the game?
"...We have our people and our intel. Weíll talk to each other. Thatís how you get the truth."

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05-09-2013, 11:01 AM
  #137
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there was clearly a bias

canucks were treated as if playing a regular season game

sharks were treated as if they were playing the over time of game 7

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05-09-2013, 11:03 AM
  #138
Reign Nateo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Jackson View Post
Has anybody posted Botchford's take on this?

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/ho...415/story.html
"It doesnít matter anymore if the Canucks are in the right. It doesnít matter if the Sharks embellished more. It doesnít matter if every 50-50 call went San Joseís way. It doesnít even matter if the refs made calls to settle old scores.

What matters is the Canucks have a loathsome reputation for antagonizing referees, both on the ice and off it, and it seems to have put a target on their backs and itís one they canít seem shake.

It sure hasnít helped them. Instead, the more they complain, the more there is to complain about, creating a vicious cycle they have to end and the only way to do that is silence. A lot of it
."

Best quote of the article and exactly my take on the subject.

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05-09-2013, 11:08 AM
  #139
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It's kind of ironic that the whole "whining" accusations started with Dan Boyle of the Sharks a couple of seasons ago and it stuck with the Canucks. Teams calling out other teams in the playoffs has been going on for decades,Gretzky did it at the Olympics, Pat Quinn called the Avalanche defencemen a bunch of marshmellows the year that they won the cup.

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05-09-2013, 11:27 AM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Jackson View Post
Has anybody posted Botchford's take on this?

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/ho...415/story.html
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I agree with Botch...........but.........
The refs have to be held accountable. The only way to do that is call them out.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

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05-09-2013, 11:31 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by MrShift4 View Post
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I agree with Botch...........but.........
The refs have to be held accountable. The only way to do that is call them out.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
You do it "behind closed doors". Like when the Hawks got (I think it was Scotty Bowman) to **** about the officiating directly (and not thru the media) during the Canucks-Hawks playoff series a couple years ago.

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05-09-2013, 11:52 AM
  #142
J Canuck
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Somebody besides the Canucks, their fans and Vancouver media needs to call out the refs. Not the Habs. Don Cherry wussed out last night. I'd like to hear Elliotte Friedman say something because he's always reasonable and is well respected. And obviously it doesn't have to be just about the Canucks. The entire league has a credibility problem. The Canucks can lose a series by themselves and embarrass themselves, but the refs have been embarrassing the entire NHL.

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05-09-2013, 12:03 PM
  #143
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Explain why sutherland would want a short series and potential not getting more games for on purpse bad calls when he gets paid 4-5k per playoff game?

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05-09-2013, 12:21 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Johnny Canucker View Post
Explain why sutherland would want a short series and potential not getting more games for on purpse bad calls when he gets paid 4-5k per playoff game?
Because hes probably not gonna ref game 5, 6 or 7?

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05-09-2013, 12:38 PM
  #145
Johnny Canucker
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Because hes probably not gonna ref game 5, 6 or 7?
Why wouldnt he get at least 1 of those games? Its not in any referees financial interest to keep series short and make obvious bad calls

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05-09-2013, 02:15 PM
  #146
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Hopefully the NHL quietly looks at that horrendous call in OT and he doesn't get any games after this round. Cost him thousands of dollars, good result.

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05-09-2013, 02:22 PM
  #147
Barney Gumble
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Originally Posted by Johnny Canucker View Post
Why wouldnt he get at least 1 of those games? Its not in any referees financial interest to keep series short and make obvious bad calls
Nobody in his right mind would do something like that blatantly. What they would do is enforce the rules to a higher standard to one team but not the other team (hence, nobody can question the calls they did make).

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05-09-2013, 02:56 PM
  #148
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You want to quiet the officiating and their nonsense? Crush the opposition. We use to be absolutely lethal on the powerplay ourselves and this year couldn't seem to kill a penalty when it mattered. If we buried our opportunities or were just a more consistent offenses threat then it wouldn't matter what the refs do. Hell, I'd rally around that point. Bury the Sharks by three or four goals and it'd take a miracle for them to comeback. We don't ever do that nowadays. We play extremely conservative and whine.

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05-09-2013, 03:17 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by King goof View Post
its like 66 penalty minutes to 26 in the van san jose series

no other series is like that , None so i think you need to stop pretending your paying attention to the reffing in the other series

your obviously not
Not so long the Canucks had it their way when the refs called everything for Canucks and they had the bulk of of the PP. Quit whining and just play hockey

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05-09-2013, 03:25 PM
  #150
Alflives
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Originally Posted by bobg1 View Post
Not so long the Canucks had it their way when the refs called everything for Canucks and they had the bulk of of the PP. Quit whining and just play hockey
Agreed. Canuck's fans quit whining; it's embarassing. Please, could an official CLOSE this thread, and end this useless banter?

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