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Old
05-09-2013, 12:27 PM
  #26
DirtyDion03
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Beauchemin is over-rated because of one good year

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05-09-2013, 12:30 PM
  #27
Jtabo
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I think if you look at some of the top d-men in the league (Chara, Weber, Karlsson, etc.) they all have support. Whether it be from a top goalie (Rinne, Rask, Anderson) or a good d partner, they all have someone who bails them out from their mistakes. Everyone, even Sidney Crosby, makes mistakes. The problem is, forwards mistakes are less magnified. D-men mistakes are more magnified and goalie mistakes are the most. In all honesty, you can't defend what Phaneuf did on that particular play. However, you can defend him as a player as he has been very consistent, and solid all year. If reimer doesn't let in that squeaker this is a non issue.

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05-09-2013, 12:36 PM
  #28
Frankie
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Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
But take a look at the kind of playoffs Norris trophy favourite PK Subban has been having...
what does that have to do with anything?

i really don't get this idea that fans seem to almost enjoy the losing. yes, dion had a bad game. no, dion is not the worst defenceman in the league. yes, dion is the best of all the leafs' defencemen. so what?

he had a bad game last night, and because of a terrible mistake he made in overtime, the leafs are one loss away from elimination. i don't see how a true fan of the team couldn't be upset by that.

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05-09-2013, 12:39 PM
  #29
Didact
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Hate what happend but it was probably fate/destiny for Leafs to not beat the Bruins.

1) Phaneuf was an idiot for making that play
2) O'Bryne played that 2 on 1 poorly
3) Reimer should of had it, despite leaky defence, you can't have that go through. We won't win averaging over 4 goals a game. It's not Fleury that's in the opposing goal.

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05-09-2013, 12:42 PM
  #30
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Phaneuf plays hard but he has the lowest hockey IQ of any top pairing dman in the league.

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05-09-2013, 12:42 PM
  #31
mikebel111
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
what does that have to do with anything?

i really don't get this idea that fans seem to almost enjoy the losing. yes, dion had a bad game. no, dion is not the worst defenceman in the league. yes, dion is the best of all the leafs' defencemen. so what?

he had a bad game last night, and because of a terrible mistake he made in overtime, the leafs are one loss away from elimination. i don't see how a true fan of the team couldn't be upset by that.


we are all upset by that play by dion
the issue is that people are now saying that he sucks, strip the C, he is thrash, not a #1 d man.
we are just trying to stop the negativity of our captain

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05-09-2013, 12:47 PM
  #32
Trill Kessell
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I think the major thing to consider here is that Dion is not clutch at all. Hasn't come through for us when we needed him to this series. When I think of an NHL captain I think of the players who can put a team on their back and bring them to victory. Dion has only contributed to our defeat with his complete lack of hockey sense.

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05-09-2013, 12:47 PM
  #33
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Where does the low hockey IQ comment come from? He is a defenceman who plays on the edge, not a stay at home guy. That is his game to pinch, that is his game to throw the big hit. Our D were pinching all OT trying to generate offence. It was almost like our guys knew Reimer would break before Rask, and they wanted to win it as quickly as they could.

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05-09-2013, 12:53 PM
  #34
NiL8r87
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post



Off the top of my head:

1. Francois Beauchemin (Anaheim)
2. Zdeno Chara (Boston)
3. Duncan Keith (Chicago)
4. Brent Seabrook (Chicago)
5. Niklas Kronwall (Detroit)
6. Brian Campbell (Florida)
7. Drew Doughty (Los Angeles)
8. Ryan Suter (Minnesota)
9. PK Subban (Montreal)
10. Shea Weber (Nashville)
11. Ryan McDonagh (New York)
12. Marc Staal (New York)
13. Erik Karsson (Ottawa)
14. Oliver Ekman-Larsson (Phoenix)
15. Keith Yandle (Phoenix)
Kris Letang (Pittsbugh)
16. Dan Boyle (San Jose)
17. Marc-Edouard Vlasic (San Jose)
18. Jay Bouwmeester (St. Louis)
19. Alex Peitrangelo (St. Louis)
20. Mike Green (Washinton)


Having said that, I don't think many people would argue Dion Phaneuf is not a top-30 defenseman in the league. By that measure, he is a #1 defenseman. If I'm a GM or a coach, I don't want him as my #1. First of all, he's a bottom end #1, so he's weak in that role. Second, he's not reliable enough - he does a lot of good, but he's just too stupid to be relied upon to make good decisions in key situations.
So the major complaint is about Dion's defence last night, yet some of the names on that list who you'd claim to be better couldn't defend a pylon.

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05-09-2013, 12:55 PM
  #35
mikebel111
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Originally Posted by NiL8r87 View Post
So the major complaint is about Dion's defence last night, yet some of the names on that list who you'd claim to be better couldn't defend a pylon.
especially subban, who is garbage in his own zone

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05-09-2013, 12:59 PM
  #36
Jtabo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post



Off the top of my head:

1. Francois Beauchemin (Anaheim)
2. Zdeno Chara (Boston)
3. Duncan Keith (Chicago)
4. Brent Seabrook (Chicago)
5. Niklas Kronwall (Detroit)
6. Brian Campbell (Florida)
7. Drew Doughty (Los Angeles)
8. Ryan Suter (Minnesota)
9. PK Subban (Montreal)
10. Shea Weber (Nashville)
11. Ryan McDonagh (New York)
12. Marc Staal (New York)
13. Erik Karsson (Ottawa)
14. Oliver Ekman-Larsson (Phoenix)
15. Keith Yandle (Phoenix)
Kris Letang (Pittsbugh)
16. Dan Boyle (San Jose)
17. Marc-Edouard Vlasic (San Jose)
18. Jay Bouwmeester (St. Louis)
19. Alex Peitrangelo (St. Louis)
20. Mike Green (Washinton)


Having said that, I don't think many people would argue Dion Phaneuf is not a top-30 defenseman in the league. By that measure, he is a #1 defenseman. If I'm a GM or a coach, I don't want him as my #1. First of all, he's a bottom end #1, so he's weak in that role. Second, he's not reliable enough - he does a lot of good, but he's just too stupid to be relied upon to make good decisions in key situations.
Not many teams are fortunate enough to have Suter and Weber type guys at the same time. The truth is you do want Phaneuf as your #1 guy, you just also want a Seidenberg type guy, instead of a Gunnarsson as his partner. I don't understand people who complain about him not being a number 1 guy. He is. Period. He just needs support. 1 man doesn't make a team, you need complimentary pieces.

Also at least a dozen of the guys you listed Phaneuf was better than during the regular season this year. And at least 8-10 are complete liabilities in their own zone.

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05-09-2013, 12:59 PM
  #37
KPower
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Dion Phaneuf Scouting report from the hockey news....

REPORT
Assets: Owns a big shot from the point and good offensive instincts. Displays all-round acumen and is the total physical package. Owns impressive lateral movement and big-hitting ability. Is a leader, too. Can log a ton of ice time.
Flaws: Lacks consistency. His defensive-zone coverage leaves something to be desired at times, which negates his impact on the NHL a little. Can be a little too exhuberant at times in search of the big hit and gets out of position.
Career Potential: Inconsistent, all-round big-minute


Those flaws hit a little close to home.

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05-09-2013, 01:00 PM
  #38
Jtabo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikebel111 View Post
especially subban, who is garbage in his own zone
and green and letang and...

most of those guys are just offensive guys. And even then, dion outscored most of them.

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05-09-2013, 01:19 PM
  #39
Al14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KPower View Post
Dion Phaneuf Scouting report from the hockey news....

REPORT
Assets: Owns a big shot from the point and good offensive instincts. Displays all-round acumen and is the total physical package. Owns impressive lateral movement and big-hitting ability. Is a leader, too. Can log a ton of ice time.
Flaws: Lacks consistency. His defensive-zone coverage leaves something to be desired at times, which negates his impact on the NHL a little. Can be a little too exhuberant at times in search of the big hit and gets out of position.
Career Potential: Inconsistent, all-round big-minute


Those flaws hit a little close to home.
Too many flaws. Too many mistakes. Too inconsistent.

Phaneuf is not a true number 1 NHL defenseman IMHO. He'd be a great 2nd pairing D on any team in the league with less ice time than he's currently seeing!

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05-09-2013, 01:22 PM
  #40
Lebanese Leaf
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Originally Posted by Al14 View Post
Too many flaws. Too many mistakes. Too inconsistent.

Phaneuf is not a true number 1 NHL defenseman IMHO. He'd be a great 2nd pairing D on any team in the league with less ice time than he's currently seeing!
Give me number to back up your claim that Phaneuf has more flaws and makes more mistakes and is too inconsistent than any other D-man who plays similar minutes as him and is similar caliber.

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05-09-2013, 01:25 PM
  #41
mikebel111
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Originally Posted by Jtabo View Post
Not many teams are fortunate enough to have Suter and Weber type guys at the same time. The truth is you do want Phaneuf as your #1 guy, you just also want a Seidenberg type guy, instead of a Gunnarsson as his partner. I don't understand people who complain about him not being a number 1 guy. He is. Period. He just needs support. 1 man doesn't make a team, you need complimentary pieces.

Also at least a dozen of the guys you listed Phaneuf was better than during the regular season this year. And at least 8-10 are complete liabilities in their own zone.


exactly this!
phaneuf is a # 1 d man. he just needs some help, when he is playing like 23 minutes. he looks awesome, but when it's 25+, thats when errors start to occur

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05-09-2013, 01:25 PM
  #42
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I know people are hating Phaneuf right now, but let it go people. We were unlikely to win the series anyhow. Just not deep or all around as the Bruins are.

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05-09-2013, 01:26 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by mikebel111 View Post
exactly this!
phaneuf is a # 1 d man. he just needs some help, when he is playing like 23 minutes. he looks awesome, but when it's 25+, thats when errors start to occur
That's going to happen to every d man that plays 25+ minutes with a player who isn't the same calibre against the players Dion plays against.

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05-09-2013, 01:27 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Didact View Post
Hate what happend but it was probably fate/destiny for Leafs to not beat the Bruins.
3) Reimer should of had it, despite leaky defence, you can't have that go through. We won't win averaging over 4 goals a game. It's not Fleury that's in the opposing goal.
Bingo! You hit the nail on the head.

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05-09-2013, 01:28 PM
  #45
mikebel111
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Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
That's going to happen to every d man that plays 25+ minutes with a player who isn't the same calibre against the players Dion plays against.


some people only blindly hate dion because they expect no mistakes all the time

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05-09-2013, 01:28 PM
  #46
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I know people are hating Phaneuf right now, but let it go people. We were unlikely to win the series anyhow. Just not deep or all around as the Bruins are.
I really dont think its about depth. The Bruins have only had one dangerous line this series, and I think we've been a bit better than that. We've matched their level of play for the last 3 games. The difference is that our turnovers have killed us, which is something that has been a problem all season.

The Bruins are very beatable right now, but we're playing sloppy hockey and can't capitalize on their weakness.

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05-09-2013, 01:31 PM
  #47
Didact
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Originally Posted by mikeo1 View Post
I really dont think its about depth. The Bruins have only had one line scoring for them, which isn't too different from us. We've matched their level of play for the last 3 games. The difference is that our turnovers have killed us, which has been the story all season.
good teams find a way to win even if they're not playing too good. Anyhow, the Leafs won't win anything moving forward without getting alot deeper (in goal, in forward, and on D). Since we're going to be playing in a division playoff format, we won't win without facing the Bruins, so any mental block this team has, they have to get past it soon.

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05-09-2013, 01:33 PM
  #48
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In OT, there are heros and goats. Look, he made a bad pinch and that cost him but lets not get ahead of ourselves. Enough of the "strip him of the C", "Lupul is the real captain" ********.

Look at this:



Hamhius gets stripped horribly and costs the game in OT. I would still love to have him on this team and would argue he is a top flight defender in this league.



Chara got blown by and Tim Thomas was in going somewhere only he knows on this OT goal. Still, both are Norris and Vezina caliber players.



Backstrom with the truly horrible giveaway. Would still say he is a top 15 C in the league and would love him lining up beside Kessel.


Usually someone ends up looking bad on an OT goal. It was Phaneuf this time but it doesn't mean he is a bad defender.

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05-09-2013, 01:33 PM
  #49
abdew29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post



Off the top of my head:

1. Francois Beauchemin (Anaheim)
2. Zdeno Chara (Boston)
3. Duncan Keith (Chicago)
4. Brent Seabrook (Chicago)
5. Niklas Kronwall (Detroit)
6. Brian Campbell (Florida)
7. Drew Doughty (Los Angeles)
8. Ryan Suter (Minnesota)
9. PK Subban (Montreal)
10. Shea Weber (Nashville)
11. Ryan McDonagh (New York)
12. Marc Staal (New York)
13. Erik Karsson (Ottawa)
14. Oliver Ekman-Larsson (Phoenix)
15. Keith Yandle (Phoenix)
Kris Letang (Pittsbugh)
16. Dan Boyle (San Jose)
17. Marc-Edouard Vlasic (San Jose)
18. Jay Bouwmeester (St. Louis)
19. Alex Peitrangelo (St. Louis)
20. Mike Green (Washinton)


Having said that, I don't think many people would argue Dion Phaneuf is not a top-30 defenseman in the league. By that measure, he is a #1 defenseman. If I'm a GM or a coach, I don't want him as my #1. First of all, he's a bottom end #1, so he's weak in that role. Second, he's not reliable enough - he does a lot of good, but he's just too stupid to be relied upon to make good decisions in key situations.
That's why your'e not a coach or a GM. Maybe on your couch, or playing NHL 13...but not in the National Hockey League.

Thank goodness for that

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Old
05-09-2013, 01:34 PM
  #50
mikeo1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Didact View Post
good teams find a way to win even if they're not playing too good. Anyhow, the Leafs won't win anything moving forward without getting alot deeper (in goal, in forward, and on D). Since we're going to be playing in a division playoff format, we won't win without facing the Bruins, so any mental block this team has, they have to get past it soon.
They're a good team yeah, but that really has nothing do with depth or why we're losing this serious. Leafs have the depth to match the Bruins, but we play a much less disciplined game.

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