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Zack Kassian's Future

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Old
05-09-2013, 06:27 PM
  #76
CanaFan
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Originally Posted by serge2k View Post
Probably, but unfortunately for Kassian the player he was traded for is a much much better offensive player at this point.

Until Kassian closes that gap people are going to be annoyed.


But why be annoyed about Kassian? Shouldn't that beef be with the GM who essentially traded a short-term asset for a longer-term asset? I have no problem with waiting another 2-3 years for Kassian to develop - that is his likely growth curve - but if you find that too long, then your issue is with the GM, not the player...

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05-09-2013, 06:41 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by CanaFan View Post
But why be annoyed about Kassian? Shouldn't that beef be with the GM who essentially traded a short-term asset for a longer-term asset? I have no problem with waiting another 2-3 years for Kassian to develop - that is his likely growth curve - but if you find that too long, then your issue is with the GM, not the player...
It's easy to be annoyed by Kassian. It shouldn't take "2 - 3 years" to consistently show up, work hard, and be involved. If you're not scoring, fine. Add value elsewhere. Hit. Chirp. Intimidate. Do something!

On far too many nights, Kassian was just straight-up invisible, which is inexcusable. And you know who that reminds me very much of? Steve Bernier. Steve Bernier would often have nights where he'd score, hit, and provide a ton of energy. Be one of the best players on the ice. Then he'd disappear entirely for two weeks.

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05-09-2013, 07:02 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
On far too many nights, Kassian was just straight-up invisible, which is inexcusable. And you know who that reminds me very much of? Steve Bernier. Steve Bernier would often have nights where he'd score, hit, and provide a ton of energy. Be one of the best players on the ice. Then he'd disappear entirely for two weeks.
You're probably going to get a lot of flack for this, but I agree with you. He doesn't seem to have that killer instinct that someone like him needs to succeed in the league. He doesn't play with a purpose out there on the ice. All the reasons why we brought him here for, there hasn't been enough of those plays to make me think he can put it all together to be a major impact player.

There's time for him to turn on that switch to be a monster or even just an effective top-6er, but I don't think we should ignore these issues just because he's 22. Being young doesn't neccessarily mean that there'll eventually be a big development jump coming.

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05-09-2013, 07:33 PM
  #79
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Sorry to hear Kassian is getting mixed reviews with your fanbase, we were crazy about having him.

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05-09-2013, 07:48 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by kanuck87 View Post
You're probably going to get a lot of flack for this, but I agree with you. He doesn't seem to have that killer instinct that someone like him needs to succeed in the league. He doesn't play with a purpose out there on the ice. All the reasons why we brought him here for, there hasn't been enough of those plays to make me think he can put it all together to be a major impact player.

There's time for him to turn on that switch to be a monster or even just an effective top-6er, but I don't think we should ignore these issues just because he's 22. Being young doesn't neccessarily mean that there'll eventually be a big development jump coming.
I think the coaches have reigned him in. Look at the penalty D. Sedin got for his hit to see why they might be afraid to have Kassian running wild with a killer instinct all over the ice.

I agree though that his potential is being squandered if he's not bowling guys over and playing with a mean streak.

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05-09-2013, 07:50 PM
  #81
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See Steve Bernier.

I said this during his little hot streak to start the year... he then went on the play worse than bernier the rest of the season. Even Bernier jammed one in against the Blues in the playoffs. Bernier dished out way better body checks and was better in front of the net.

This guy has a long way to go before he's anything but a grinder. He really needs to work on his skills this summer.

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05-09-2013, 07:52 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by couture23 View Post
Sorry to hear Kassian is getting mixed reviews with your fanbase, we were crazy about having him.
I'm ok with Kassian not putting up great offensive numbers. As others stated, he is young and can grow.

What I hate though is how damn lazy he looked for a lot of his time out there. Very frustrating. When he did start moving his feet though he looked ok and he obviously has good hands. He just needs to learn to work hard all the time (or as often as possible anyway).

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05-09-2013, 08:03 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
I hope for your sake hes traded and goes on to flourish a la Toddimus Bertuzzimus.
Nope, wouldn't trade him either. Want the canucks to work on his development for 2 more years. But hyping him, blaming the coach and getting bounced from the playoffs in the 1st round for a 3rd because of believing our own hype? No thanks.

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05-09-2013, 08:07 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
It's easy to be annoyed by Kassian. It shouldn't take "2 - 3 years" to consistently show up, work hard, and be involved. If you're not scoring, fine. Add value elsewhere. Hit. Chirp. Intimidate. Do something!

On far too many nights, Kassian was just straight-up invisible, which is inexcusable. And you know who that reminds me very much of? Steve Bernier. Steve Bernier would often have nights where he'd score, hit, and provide a ton of energy. Be one of the best players on the ice. Then he'd disappear entirely for two weeks.

I agree it "shouldn't" but it definitely "can". Adapting and growing as a player isn't just skills development, it is also about learning to live and train like a pro, adapting to the pressures and expectations of being a million-dollar athlete. Hell, how many veterans and All-Stars perform better in contract years than in the year after signing a big contract? Being consistent is something all players struggle with, so seeing it in a 22 year old is hardly a shocker. I agree 100% he needs to get better. Hopefully he will. But saying he *won't* just because he hasn't at age 22 is staggeringly short-sighted ...

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05-09-2013, 08:10 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by CanaFan View Post
So the fact that he is not where we want him to be at 22 means that he will never get there? Is this the conclusion that we are drawing? Hey, Brendan Gaunce is 19 and has doesn't even played in the NHL. Guess he'll never be a player. Nick Jensen scored 0 goals in 2 games. I guess he'll never score a goal.

The fact that you actually look at a 22 year old player - who is in his first full season on a *contending team* that isn't looking to coddle rookies and plays for a coach that is notorious for favoring veterans over rookies - and focus only on what they aren't good at currently, rather than what they *are* good at or show potential to be good at, has got to be one of the most ridiculous things I've seen in the past 24 hours on these boards (of which there has been a lot)...
Not what I said, just tired of the hype and blaming the coach. Good job on the ad hominem though - somehow hype, scapegoating and ad hominem all fall under the same entry.

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05-09-2013, 08:11 PM
  #86
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I'm frustrated he got out skated by Scott Hannan!!!

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05-09-2013, 08:18 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by couture23 View Post
Sorry to hear Kassian is getting mixed reviews with your fanbase, we were crazy about having him.

Some of our fanbase are just trying to put the blame somewhere.

Anyway;

Hodgson WANTED OUTTT!!!!!!!!!!!! We got someone for him who would very rarely be traded in a young powerforward. He is still very young and as you all know power forwards take time to develop. It's hard for a powerforward to get into the game when your told to be very professional out there by the coaches(no celebrating goals etc) and ever since junior getting told that he needs to calm his intensity/hits down, and when you see Kassian get those cheap little penalties he seems to accumulate he becomes afraid to hit.

All of this reinforced when you see the canucks score a big goal and it cuts to the canuck bench and Kassian is the only person excited.

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05-09-2013, 08:19 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
It's easy to be annoyed by Kassian. It shouldn't take "2 - 3 years" to consistently show up, work hard, and be involved. If you're not scoring, fine. Add value elsewhere. Hit. Chirp. Intimidate. Do something!

On far too many nights, Kassian was just straight-up invisible, which is inexcusable. And you know who that reminds me very much of? Steve Bernier. Steve Bernier would often have nights where he'd score, hit, and provide a ton of energy. Be one of the best players on the ice. Then he'd disappear entirely for two weeks.
I agree that he may not improve and end up like Steve Bernier, but it is too early to definitively say that he's going to be like that.

The things you said above also reminds me of Bertuzzi. He was basically described as a lazy enigma with the Islanders.

Could go either way. I think his floor is higher than Bernier (Kassian is much better at fighting and intimidating than Bernier ever was), but his ceiling is lower than Bertuzzi (since Bertuzzi had outstanding skills at his best). Too premature to definitively say though since the range of comparables is exceedingly wide at age 22.

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05-09-2013, 08:21 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by CanaFan View Post
I agree it "shouldn't" but it definitely "can". Adapting and growing as a player isn't just skills development, it is also about learning to live and train like a pro, adapting to the pressures and expectations of being a million-dollar athlete. Hell, how many veterans and All-Stars perform better in contract years than in the year after signing a big contract? Being consistent is something all players struggle with, so seeing it in a 22 year old is hardly a shocker. I agree 100% he needs to get better. Hopefully he will. But saying he *won't* just because he hasn't at age 22 is staggeringly short-sighted ...
I agree, and I never said.

But the thing that you need to ask yourself is where is the improvement? I'm not seeing a lot of growth in the 2012-13 Kassian vis-a-vis the 2011-12 one:

AHL
-2011-12: 30 GP, 15 G, 26 P, +4
-2012-13: 29 GP, 8 G, 21 P, -3

Pretty alarming, IMO. 8 goals in 29 AHL games - nearly half the total as the prior year? Really? And this is a guy that people are clamoring to have play with Daniel & Henrik?!?

NHL
-2011-12: 44 GP, 4 G, 10 P, -2
-2012-13: 43 GP, 7 G, 11 P, -7

Again, I ask: where is the improvement? Where are the signs of life?

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05-09-2013, 08:21 PM
  #90
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If anything Kassian has given me something to look forward to next season. IMO he was the best forward in the playoffs

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05-09-2013, 08:27 PM
  #91
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People expect young players to not struggle? On this team, we don't allow for our young players to have hiccups, they get demoted instantly. You cannot just use his stats this year, knowing very well that he spent a majority of the time on the fourth line.

He has a ton to work on, but to call him Bernier at this point is incredibly premature

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05-09-2013, 08:28 PM
  #92
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I always wonder, with Kassian being a power forward and power forwards being notorious for really getting going when they get hit, or the game intensity ramps up, do you think he would benefit greatly from an intense coach that would ramp the teams energy up when things aren't going well?

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05-09-2013, 08:33 PM
  #93
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Steve Bernier has no offensive creativity, no vision and stone hands. I just don't see the comparison to Kassian.

Further, Bernier has fought 13 times in the NHL in 7 seasons. Kassian 8 in 2.

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05-09-2013, 08:51 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
I agree, and I never said.

But the thing that you need to ask yourself is where is the improvement? I'm not seeing a lot of growth in the 2012-13 Kassian vis-a-vis the 2011-12 one:

AHL
-2011-12: 30 GP, 15 G, 26 P, +4
-2012-13: 29 GP, 8 G, 21 P, -3

Pretty alarming, IMO. 8 goals in 29 AHL games - nearly half the total as the prior year? Really? And this is a guy that people are clamoring to have play with Daniel & Henrik?!?

NHL
-2011-12: 44 GP, 4 G, 10 P, -2
-2012-13: 43 GP, 7 G, 11 P, -7

Again, I ask: where is the improvement? Where are the signs of life?

56 GP, 16 G, 15 A, 0
72 GP, 21 G, 18 A, -26
73 GP, 14 G, 20 A, -30

Where was the improvement? Where were the signs of life? Good thing we got rid of the guy that put up those numbers.

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Old
05-09-2013, 08:52 PM
  #95
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It's weird how a fan base that watched the development of Kesler, the Sedins, Schneider, Hansen, Burrows gives up on our youth so often. He's 22 years old - if you're a hockey fan at all you should understand the development curb is always longer than the expectations placed among these young adults.

Long story short, we should be giving Kassian a couple more years to round his game out before making the assumption he isn't hitting his potential - Because his potential is a fabricated assumption by ALL OF US that he should be scoring 30 goals at this point. Realistically, not so much...and a lot of our fan base still hasn't learned.

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05-09-2013, 08:53 PM
  #96
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I am reserving my opinion of Kassian until after he's gone through a full proper training camp and preseason with the Canucks, he's looked like he's not sure what to do a lot of the time, with his positioning, he's thinking the game out there instead of just doing it instinctively, that's something that gets better with time and practice, which he hasn't had much of since he came here. If he's still struggling next season, then it's time to be concerned.

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05-09-2013, 10:07 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
I disagree with this strongly. He doesn't see the ice well at all. He doesn't know where to go. Looks lost on the ice at times - indicative of a low Hockey IQ, which is often a big, big (and overlooked) determining factor.

It's like Kassian's spent more time on trying to develop cutesy-pie dangle moves rather than studying the game's fundamentals.
"Corrado is in over his head"

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05-09-2013, 10:11 PM
  #98
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See Steve Bernier.

I said this during his little hot streak to start the year... he then went on the play worse than bernier the rest of the season. Even Bernier jammed one in against the Blues in the playoffs. Bernier dished out way better body checks and was better in front of the net.

This guy has a long way to go before he's anything but a grinder. He really needs to work on his skills this summer.
Did you say that during RNH's hot streak as well? Because he's reaching plug status fast

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05-09-2013, 10:13 PM
  #99
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"Corrado is in over his head"
"Connauton is an A-prospect"

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Old
05-09-2013, 10:23 PM
  #100
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Kassian's been pretty brutal so far. Forget about his point totals, it's his lack of physicality and overall laziness that really gets me. If you're a young guy trying not to get demoted to the minors again, would you not be trying as hard as you can?

BUT, I still have hope for him. He just needs to mature a bit, cut out the booze and drugs, and start hitting the gym and get in as good a shape as some of his teammates.

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