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Has Gillis Ruined the Canucks?

View Poll Results: Has Gillis ruined the Canucks
Yes 44 38.26%
No 71 61.74%
Voters: 115. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-09-2013, 10:54 PM
  #51
I Hate Chris Butler
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He hasn't ruined them but he hasn't made them better either.

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05-10-2013, 12:18 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
And since then back to back early first round exits. No... it isn't fair to say that he ruined them. He has had a very successful regular season team and some playoff success.

But there is no denying that the team has a taken a step back this season and that is large part due to the moves that Gillis has made (or hasn't made) over the past two seasons.
Against a cup winning team and a team whose fate has yet to be decided, but it looking promising.

He most certainly did not, but he needs to get rid of AV.

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05-10-2013, 01:02 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by bhay1987 View Post
He's no top 5 GM, but this thread is a joke. Lately his moves have been mostly ****** but he definitely made moves that took Vancouver from a weak 3 seed to back to back #1 finishes and a SCF appearance.

Does no one remember signing Samuelsson off of Detroit for $2.5 x 3 years and have him score around 30 goals two of those years?

Or bringing in Erhoff for nothing? It's just a coincidence the Sedins went from 75-85 point guys to 95-100+ when he was there and back to their old production since?

Luongo signing was in hindsight terrible but the CBA sanctions didn't help. And the trades for Ballard and Booth both didn't work out at all. The cap space from those two put towards one elite player that could have put them over the top is also at Gillis's feature.

The only reason anyone considers this Vancouver team a colossal failure is because of the expectations they have set under Gillis.
Ehrhoff had very little impact on the Sedins. He was an excellent acquisition (got him for a career AHLer and a late 2nd) but.. didn't cause the Sedins' offense.

The Sedins scored a ton of points in those years for two reasons; slightly above average shooting percentage (the Sedins are usually well above average, it's no secret they try to make the extra pass for a better opportunity, but they were more so than usual those years) and offensive opportunity.

The Canucks in '10-'11 and '11-'12 were built to play opponents to a draw or better at 5v5 and win the special teams battle. The Sedins were given almost every offensive zone faceoff possible and took very few in the defensive zone. Malhotra, Lapierre, and to a lesser extent Kesler took the defensive minutes and basically just tried to get an offensive zone faceoff for them.

However, in the playoffs, the Canucks were destroyed by Boston at 5v5 (and couldn't draw penalties with their injuries, and couldn't solve Thomas when they WERE on the powerplay). Then they lost at 5v5 very soundly to an excellent Kings squad. So Gillis tried to reshape the team to be bigger, tougher, stronger. A better 5v5 team at the expense of offense.

This year the Canucks played their forwards lower in the zone than ever before. They usually pressured the dmen at the points and were instructed to bolt the zone before the team fully gained control of the puck. They'd send a guy if they were in a situation where he thought he could get away. The Sedins were also given more defensive minutes; there were games when they had 9 or 10 faceoffs in the defensive zone, and they were playing against opponents top lines.

TLDR; Gillis was trying to win on special teams and ended up losing at 5v5. He tried to reshape the Canucks to being a better 5v5 team, and then lost in 4 games because of the special teams battle. The hockey gods flipped the Canucks the bird.

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05-10-2013, 01:08 AM
  #54
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I think we need to see a different coach before we start blaming the GM.

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05-10-2013, 01:57 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Maybe give the team a chance with a new coach?

Gillis has put together a fairly successful team. SCF appearance, several playoff rounds won, five straight division titles. I think the Canucks team is fairly well built, I'd like to see what they can do with a different coach.
No offence to Northwest division teams and the Canucks because I think they have a pretty good team but next to the Southeast division it is arguably the worst division in the league so any good team can win that division.

As for the poll I think it depends on we'll find out when we see what he does with the Sedins if anything, and with Luongo.

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05-10-2013, 01:59 AM
  #56
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No offence to Northwest division teams and the Canucks because I think they have a pretty good team but next to the Southeast division it is arguably the worst division in the league so any good team can win that division.

As for the poll I think it depends on we'll find out when we see what he does with the Sedins if anything, and with Luongo.
Still impressive, IMO even the Capitals, in the Southeast division, can't claim they have that long of a streak. Besides, they've generally been 100+ point teams, not teams that would be in seventh/eighth place if they were in a better division.

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05-10-2013, 03:45 AM
  #57
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I wasn't aware it was the GM's prerogative to determine the offensive system a team uses. How interesting. Good to know we can do away with the position of Coach.

For all the people, including Canucks fans, blaming Gillis for the Luongo situation; I ask, would you have counted it as a positive if a trade had been made and the Canucks had to go with Joe Cannata (of less than 1 years AHL and ECHL experience) or another random goalie in games 1 and 2. Would that have been a better result for the Canucks?

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05-10-2013, 07:31 AM
  #58
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Man, I remember when Canucks fans were raving about Kassian being the next top power forward in the league.

Oh, how the mighty have fallen

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05-10-2013, 07:55 AM
  #59
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No he never. Despite the 2 straight early exists, the Canucks are probably as strong now as they have been at any point in their history.

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05-10-2013, 09:47 AM
  #60
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Yes he has. They've gone backwards instead of forwards since their Cup finals appearance. 1-8 in the playoffs the last 2 years, an aging core with little coming up through the pipeline. Swept this season despite having the highest payroll. AV should've been gone after last years playoffs. Over the cap for next season with 17 players under contract. Than there is the Loungo fiasco.
The 5 division titles, in my opinion, is a mirage. They play in a division with weak teams in Calgary, Edmonton, Colorado, and up until this season, the Wild. Playing those teams 6 times each a year, you're going to pad the point total. Despite what Gary Valk says, it does matter which teams are in your division.

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05-10-2013, 08:59 PM
  #61
Sergei Shirokov
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Threads like these make me shake my head.

Clearly he hasn't.


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05-10-2013, 08:59 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfisher6 View Post
Man, I remember when Canucks fans were raving about Kassian being the next top power forward in the league.

Oh, how the mighty have fallen
They haven't fallen.

I don't see any prospects/young developing players like him that are as good as him in terms of having the complete package and upside.

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05-10-2013, 09:00 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by danishh View Post
I think we need to see a different coach before we start blaming the GM.
You sir have pretty much got it 100% right

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05-10-2013, 09:05 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Threads like these make me shake my head.

Clearly he hasn't.

Oh wow he won a trophy 3 seasons ago because a bunch of players he inherited dominated the league.

He should saw that trophy into 3 pieces and give 2 of them to the guys that built all of the important parts of that team except Ehrhoff and hamhuis.

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05-10-2013, 09:07 PM
  #65
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No, they are the same team he inherited pretty much.

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05-10-2013, 09:10 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by NugentHopkinsfan View Post
Oh wow he won a trophy 3 seasons ago because a bunch of players he inherited dominated the league.

He should saw that trophy into 3 pieces and give 2 of them to the guys that built all of the important parts of that team except Ehrhoff and hamhuis.
He has done alot of positive things with this team.

This was a team failing that had missed the playoffs 2 out of 3 years when he got here.

They failed to score. Gillis changed the culture. Changed the style of this team, made some personell moves and look what happened, we have gone through the greatest era in the history of our franchise.

Its no coincidence.

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05-10-2013, 09:11 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by jfisher6 View Post
Man, I remember when Canucks fans were raving about Kassian being the next top power forward in the league.

Oh, how the mighty have fallen
he still has potential to be.. it's just not happening as fast as everyone would like. AV also sucks with young players.

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05-11-2013, 12:35 AM
  #68
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I wouldn't say Gillis has ruined them. It's hard to win when your best players aren't producing.. The Sedin's were horrible and they weren't much better last year (although, only 2 games for Daniel in 2012)

The reason their window is closing is because the Sedin's are on the downswing's of their career. Time to deal them and try to get some young up and coming stars back up front to take over the team while they still have Kesler, Edler, Schneider at a young age.

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05-11-2013, 01:02 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
Ehrhoff had very little impact on the Sedins. He was an excellent acquisition (got him for a career AHLer and a late 2nd) but.. didn't cause the Sedins' offense.

The Sedins scored a ton of points in those years for two reasons; slightly above average shooting percentage (the Sedins are usually well above average, it's no secret they try to make the extra pass for a better opportunity, but they were more so than usual those years) and offensive opportunity.

The Canucks in '10-'11 and '11-'12 were built to play opponents to a draw or better at 5v5 and win the special teams battle. The Sedins were given almost every offensive zone faceoff possible and took very few in the defensive zone. Malhotra, Lapierre, and to a lesser extent Kesler took the defensive minutes and basically just tried to get an offensive zone faceoff for them.

However, in the playoffs, the Canucks were destroyed by Boston at 5v5 (and couldn't draw penalties with their injuries, and couldn't solve Thomas when they WERE on the powerplay). Then they lost at 5v5 very soundly to an excellent Kings squad. So Gillis tried to reshape the team to be bigger, tougher, stronger. A better 5v5 team at the expense of offense.

This year the Canucks played their forwards lower in the zone than ever before. They usually pressured the dmen at the points and were instructed to bolt the zone before the team fully gained control of the puck. They'd send a guy if they were in a situation where he thought he could get away. The Sedins were also given more defensive minutes; there were games when they had 9 or 10 faceoffs in the defensive zone, and they were playing against opponents top lines.

TLDR; Gillis was trying to win on special teams and ended up losing at 5v5. He tried to reshape the Canucks to being a better 5v5 team, and then lost in 4 games because of the special teams battle. The hockey gods flipped the Canucks the bird.
Opportunity granted because Gillis signed Manny Malhotra, so he can still receive some credit for the Sedins' offensive success. You're right about the 5v5/special teams thing though. I don't think the Canucks have gotten worse at 5v5 at all over the last few years, it's just the special teams that have went into the trash.

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05-11-2013, 01:18 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Scottkmlps View Post
Yes he has. They've gone backwards instead of forwards since their Cup finals appearance. 1-8 in the playoffs the last 2 years, an aging core with little coming up through the pipeline. Swept this season despite having the highest payroll. AV should've been gone after last years playoffs. Over the cap for next season with 17 players under contract. Than there is the Loungo fiasco.

The 5 division titles, in my opinion, is a mirage. They play in a division with weak teams in Calgary, Edmonton, Colorado, and up until this season, the Wild. Playing those teams 6 times each a year, you're going to pad the point total. Despite what Gary Valk says, it does matter which teams are in your division.
2009-2010, record vs:
- Central: 10-9-1, 86pt pace
- Pacific: 11-7-2, 98pt pace
- Eastern conf: 13-5-0, 118pt pace

2010-2011, record vs:
- Central: 12-5-3, 111pt pace
- Pacific: 13-5-2, 115pt pace
- Eastern conf: 11-5-2, 109pt pace
(only the Canucks had more than 107 points)

2011-2012, record vs:
- Central: 11-6-3, 103pt pace
- Pacific: 11-5-4, 107pt pace
- Eastern conf: 105pt pace

Clearly the Canucks have feasted on the awful teams in the Northwest... but they've done a pretty good job feasting on everyone else too.

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05-11-2013, 01:26 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Luongo was asked about that and said it that never happened.

After the 2012 Draft I read an article by Damien Cox of the Toronto Star and he reported at that time Mike Gillis was asking for Jake Gardiner, Matt Frattin, Tyler Bozak and the Leafs 2012 1st round pick in return for Luongo and was told no deal.

If you choose to believe that it's your decision, however if that is assuming that story is true then it shows that Gillis was asking for way to much in return based on his contract and how the Canucks didn't trust Luongo to be their #1 Goalie after lossing Game 2 to Los Angeles.
And therein lies your problem. You're listening to what Damien Cox says, who is a complete moron. Even TSN gaffed on the rumors floating around because the Canucks organization is notorious for not saying a word. The only legitimate rumor to ever get any legs was Bozak + 2nd + something. Gillis wanted Kadri, whereas the Leafs wanted to move a lesser prospect (Finn or Frattin were thrown around once I believe.)

To answer the OP, no. If anything Gillis is the reason we have been successful, barring our playoff woes. Admittedly, his decision to move away from our prior identity has left him with egg on his face, however this is likely due to his philosophy of allowing the coach to run the system as he sees fit. AV was always defensive oriented and only deviated at ownership's insistence. As of today, Gillis' GM status will be defined by how the Canucks proceed moving forward. We are still a competitive roster and a coaching change will prove just that.

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05-11-2013, 01:33 AM
  #72
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He has been an enigma. His record is very strong but that is mostly due to the core he inherited. Some good signings, some bad trades, has ****ed up the Luongo signing, not looking like he will get good trade value for him, hasn't drafted well. The more I think about it the more I think his record is smoke and mirrors and he hasn't done that good of a job.

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05-12-2013, 05:11 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by NugentHopkinsfan View Post
Oh wow he won a trophy 3 seasons ago because a bunch of players he inherited dominated the league.

He should saw that trophy into 3 pieces and give 2 of them to the guys that built all of the important parts of that team except Ehrhoff and hamhuis.
Ehrhoff and hamhuis are not just "oh he got them, but everybody else was great!"

Ehrhoff and hamhuis was a monster part of that year.

Hamhuis continues 2 be one of the best signings in awhile around the league, guy is a stud

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05-12-2013, 05:14 PM
  #74
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He has destroyed the entire organization.

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05-13-2013, 10:30 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by nowhereman View Post
I'm not a fan of some of Gillis' moves but he can't be blamed for everything. Is it Gillis' fault that Ballard went from being a great top three defenseman into a boderline top six defenseman? Is it his fault that Booth and Kesler can barely string together a handful of healthy games? Is it his fault that the Sedins have had one only great playoff series (San Jose, 2011) in the last three years? Is it his fault that Edler devolved into a complete mess of a player? Is it his fault that Luongo has had playoff games where he's collapsed and let in seven or eight goals?
Um, yes it is actually. Gillis is the General Manager of this team, so he bears responsibility for some of AV's poor decisions as well (being his manager and all, and rehiring the guy).

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