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05-09-2013, 09:53 PM
  #176
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His skating looks really not good.

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05-09-2013, 10:07 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Special View Post
You guys that want to get rid of MDZ are out of your freakin' minds.

All the same things being posted on here were said about Zubov at one time. Is he the same player as Z? not the point. (But he might be.)

Zubie used to miss the net on the PP all the time. We remember the times he hit the twine now though.

If we were to send him (MDZ) elsewhere, we will regret it. That's the point.

Still a lot of upside to develop here.
I get your point and I don't believe(and I wouldn't) move Del Zotto either, but please don't put him in the same sentence with Zubov who put up 800 points, won 2 cups, was the best right pointman on the pp that the Rangers ever had and is a borderline hall of famer!

Zubov should have retired a Ranger but he was part of possibly the worst trade in Ranger's history when he got moved to the Pens(courtesy of that dummy Neal Smith).

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05-09-2013, 10:10 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by ltrangerfan View Post
I believe most have said it. DZ can play like a top 4 D man when on his game. The problem is the lack of a consistent play/decision making. I am reminded by the minor league baseball pitcher that throws better than 97 MPH along with a dynamic curve. If you see the pitcher you are left wondering why he isn't in the majors. The problem, he can't get the ball over the plate with enough consistency. Thus he stays in the minors.

Yes, DZ is only 23. Yes he is young. We have been saying that he is on the verge of stardom for 4 yrs now. We have seen incremental progress so do we just hold on as his trade value diminishes? Are many saying that John Moore is a kid who is only 23 as well? He is making some mistakes on D as well. He seems to skate well and has a good low shot. When I compare DZ to J.Moore I don't see DZ's vast upside that I would have expected to see by now.
Good post. I really like Del Zotto and I hope someday it all clicks for him because he has a world of untapped talent!

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05-10-2013, 07:57 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by ltrangerfan View Post
I believe most have said it. DZ can play like a top 4 D man when on his game. The problem is the lack of a consistent play/decision making. I am reminded by the minor league baseball pitcher that throws better than 97 MPH along with a dynamic curve. If you see the pitcher you are left wondering why he isn't in the majors. The problem, he can't get the ball over the plate with enough consistency. Thus he stays in the minors.

Yes, DZ is only 23. Yes he is young. We have been saying that he is on the verge of stardom for 4 yrs now. We have seen incremental progress so do we just hold on as his trade value diminishes? Are many saying that John Moore is a kid who is only 23 as well? He is making some mistakes on D as well. He seems to skate well and has a good low shot. When I compare DZ to J.Moore I don't see DZ's vast upside that I would have expected to see by now.
The thing is, he's not in the minors. DZ is in the show right now. Defensemen almost ALWAYS take longer to develop. We haven't seen his development stagnate yet. He's still getting better. His first year he was nothing but offense, his defense was awful. 2nd year the teams had him figured out and his defense was still brutal so there was no reason to keep him in the NHL for most of the year. Last year he started to put it together, but it was either offense or defense. Very rarely did he play a great all around game. This year he was starting to do both. When he was on, both his offense AND defense was there.

It's inconsistency. It's called being a young player. He will figure it out. Also, it's not as easy to hit the net as everyone thinks when you have a line of 3 players lining up to block your shot. If it gets blocked it bounces off their shin pads and they go down the other way on a breakaway. Better to shoot it off the end boards and hope for a bounce infront than shoot it off the blockers pads. And even something like that takes time. Patience. Worst comes to worst we have a third pairing defensemen (which we desperately need, btw) that can play in the top 4 when he's on.

Also, baseball is apples and oranges to hockey. You can't get by in baseball without being able to throw accurately.

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05-10-2013, 08:07 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
I get your point and I don't believe(and I wouldn't) move Del Zotto either, but please don't put him in the same sentence with Zubov who put up 800 points, won 2 cups, was the best right pointman on the pp that the Rangers ever had and is a borderline hall of famer!

Zubov should have retired a Ranger but he was part of possibly the worst trade in Ranger's history when he got moved to the Pens(courtesy of that dummy Neal Smith).
Zubov and Nedved for Samuelsson and Robataille. Ugh.

Smith caught lightning in a bottle when he toughened up the Rangers at the '94 deadline and they won it all. This was a move the mirrored that. The concern was that Zubov wasnt tough enough -- but given his offensive prowess, the Rangers shouldve taken the good with the bad there.

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05-10-2013, 08:17 AM
  #181
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DZ is no Zubov, Zubov was great from the start, DZ has been in the league long enough to know what needs to be done...he just isn't doing it...our power play is awful when he is running the point and he defensive is terrible.

If we can a alex petrovic and say a Drew Shore from Florida or even a trade with Sens, get Eric Gryba and Troy Rutkowski or Mark Stone...u run with that all day long.

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05-10-2013, 08:19 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
DZ is no Zubov, Zubov was great from the start, DZ has been in the league long enough to know what needs to be done...he just isn't doing it...our power play is awful when he is running the point and he defensive is terrible.

If we can a alex petrovic and say a Drew Shore from Florida or even a trade with Sens, get Eric Gryba and Troy Rutkowski or Mark Stone...u run with that all day long.
I would still trade him for ROR, even with his contract, and then buy our Richards.

Philly needs a puck-mover. Simmonds? Please?

Edmonton?

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05-10-2013, 08:23 AM
  #183
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Im not ready to give up on Del Zotto. Hes still just 22 years old and has a lot to learn.

Part of it is shiny new toy syndrome w/ John Moore. Del Zotto is 5 months older than Moore and far more accomplished at the NHL level.

So many people are ready to deal our D-men because it is perceived as a position of strength. Yet, with an injury to Staal, here we are again with the #6 guy getting 5 mins a night. Keep the depth.

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05-10-2013, 08:24 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Im not ready to give up on Del Zotto. Hes still just 22 years old and has a lot to learn.

Part of it is shiny new toy syndrome w/ John Moore. Del Zotto is 5 months older than Moore and far more accomplished at the NHL level.
I'm not giving up on him, he just hasn't really taken the next step to be a true Offensive-d that this team needs.

The left side is packed (if Staal will come re-sign, otherwise he is the one to move).

Also, the depth problem should be alleviated a bit by McIlrath taking the next step in his development and, hopefully, Sather realizing he should sign another legit vet d-man who can play, not Gilroy and Bickel. Go out and sign Martinek or Aucoin or someone like that. Hannan would have been another good one this year.

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05-10-2013, 08:31 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I'm not giving up on him, he just hasn't really taken the next step to be a true Offensive-d that this team needs.

The left side is packed (if Staal will come re-sign, otherwise he is the one to move).

Also, the depth problem should be alleviated a bit by McIlrath taking the next step in his development and, hopefully, Sather realizing he should sign another legit vet d-man who can play, not Gilroy and Bickel. Go out and sign Martinek or Aucoin or someone like that. Hannan would have been another good one this year.
Jettisoning capable NHL'ers because prospects are "ready to take the next step" has been a recipe for disaster as of late.

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05-10-2013, 08:48 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Jettisoning capable NHL'ers because prospects are "ready to take the next step" has been a recipe for disaster as of late.
I don't mean he will be ready for NHL time. Just that he will be capable of being called up in the case of injuries. If he proves NHL ready, great. If not, and Staal is healthy, they should sign a veteran d-man and re-sign Eminger. They would be fine.

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05-10-2013, 08:49 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I don't mean he will be ready for NHL time. Just that he will be capable of being called up in the case of injuries. If he proves NHL ready, great. If not, and Staal is healthy, they should sign a veteran d-man and re-sign Eminger. They would be fine.
Seems to me they would be in even better shape if they just hung onto Del Zotto.

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05-10-2013, 08:51 AM
  #188
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If Moore's offense is in the neighborhood of Del Zotto's--he's going to be a better player. The one thing Del Zotto seems to have over the other defensemen is he's a lot calmer with the puck running the pwp.

Those who say they wouldn't move Del Zotto (we aren't married to these guys are we?)--well it depends on the return.

Del Zotto is sometimes a good player in his own end--still being young he'll probably get better--how much is a question. He's never going to be a stud in his own end. Compare him to Zubov?--I really wouldn't. Zubov's first full season he had 90 points. He was playing with Messier and Leetch amongst others but even so--that's at least two full seasons of production for MDZ. Zubov was a little bigger, stronger, steadier in his own end and had a lot better shot. Zubov's main problem was he'd play soft at times. He wasn't very aggressive or physical. Del Zotto is a bit more naturally competitive.

I'm not in a hurry to get rid of MDZ. I'm fine with him returning to the fold next year--but if the right deal came along I would move him.

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05-10-2013, 08:52 AM
  #189
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Right, so if one person gets hurt we're stuck with 2 players playing 5 minutes a night instead of the current one that we have right now....

Yes, our defense is a position of strength, but its not a position of depth right now at the NHL level.

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05-10-2013, 08:52 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Im not ready to give up on Del Zotto. Hes still just 22 years old and has a lot to learn.

Part of it is shiny new toy syndrome w/ John Moore. Del Zotto is 5 months older than Moore and far more accomplished at the NHL level.

So many people are ready to deal our D-men because it is perceived as a position of strength. Yet, with an injury to Staal, here we are again with the #6 guy getting 5 mins a night. Keep the depth.
The deals I sugguested both had dmen coming back...he has had 4 years to learn and I hhavent seen much foward movement.

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05-10-2013, 09:01 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Seems to me they would be in even better shape if they just hung onto Del Zotto.
I would rather have a power forward like Simmonds or someone like that and have the d I proposed. You were just looking at the defense without looking at the return.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
If Moore's offense is in the neighborhood of Del Zotto's--he's going to be a better player. The one thing Del Zotto seems to have over the other defensemen is he's a lot calmer with the puck running the pwp.

Those who say they wouldn't move Del Zotto (we aren't married to these guys are we?)--well it depends on the return.

Del Zotto is sometimes a good player in his own end--still being young he'll probably get better--how much is a question. He's never going to be a stud in his own end. Compare him to Zubov?--I really wouldn't. Zubov's first full season he had 90 points. He was playing with Messier and Leetch amongst others but even so--that's at least two full seasons of production for MDZ. Zubov was a little bigger, stronger, steadier in his own end and had a lot better shot. Zubov's main problem was he'd play soft at times. He wasn't very aggressive or physical. Del Zotto is a bit more naturally competitive.

I'm not in a hurry to get rid of MDZ. I'm fine with him returning to the fold next year--but if the right deal came along I would move him.
This.

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Originally Posted by 3rd Guy High View Post
Right, so if one person gets hurt we're stuck with 2 players playing 5 minutes a night instead of the current one that we have right now....

Yes, our defense is a position of strength, but its not a position of depth right now at the NHL level.
Considering both Moore, MDZ, McDonagh, Girardi and Stralman have played top-4 minutes in the playoffs and with Staal having an entire off-season to heal and rest he should be back.

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05-10-2013, 09:06 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Seems to me they would be in even better shape if they just hung onto Del Zotto.
The real question is: Where does he play? Someone is going to have to switch sides if we're going to fit McD, Staal, MDZ and Moore in the lineup. I think DZ has proven he's lousy on his off-wing. McDonagh is the top pairing guy, so no sense in moving him over. That leaves Staal or Moore, and Staal looks way better on the left as well.

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05-10-2013, 09:08 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I would rather have a power forward like Simmonds or someone like that and have the d I proposed. You were just looking at the defense without looking at the return.
That'd be because the return is fictional to this point.

Id be heavily interested in Simmonds - at the same time, I have no idea why Philly would want to trade him.

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05-10-2013, 09:11 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
That'd be because the return is fictional to this point.

Id be heavily interested in Simmonds - at the same time, I have no idea why Philly would want to trade him.
So instead of speculating you decided to act like they were going to give him away for free?

Wouldn't have to Simmonds, but it could easily be a Simmonds-like player.

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05-10-2013, 09:12 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
So instead of speculating you decided to act like they were going to give him away for free?

Wouldn't have to Simmonds, but it could easily be a Simmonds-like player.
Youre not bringing anyone back on defense, and I was simply commenting that the depth on defense isn't as ironclad as you'd like it to be.

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05-10-2013, 09:14 AM
  #196
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DZ and Beaver have this spiritual bond that links them, guides them and gives them power. When one is down and out, the other suffers. As much as I'm being crazy, I do think Beaver helps DZ's game a lot on the ice in terms of providing a natural flow of play making.

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05-10-2013, 09:14 AM
  #197
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Youre not bringing anyone back on defense, and I was simply commenting that the depth on defense isn't as ironclad as you'd like it to be.
I did not say it was ironclad, just that it would still be a good defense. They could easily work in a defenseman IF they wanted to. Or they could sign a 1 or 2 year stop-gap and Eminger as the depth guy and go with that. Streit?

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05-10-2013, 09:29 AM
  #198
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McIlrath takes a lot of **** from fans and some media. If you look at the 2010 draft,Gormley and Forbort haven't played an NHL game yet. They were two other highly ranked D taken after McIlrath. Fowler is a -57 in his NHL career. His point totals have dropped each season. If he was a stock,you could have made a fortune shorting him. Anaheim gave Fowler $4M per starting next season. Good luck to them. Dylan should enter the conversation at some point next season. The Rangers need his physical play. Ovechkin made a comment about the Rangers D not being physical and he's right. The Rangers really lack that element.

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05-10-2013, 09:38 AM
  #199
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McIlrath takes a lot of **** from fans and some media. If you look at the 2010 draft,Gormley and Forbort haven't played an NHL game yet. They were two other highly ranked D taken after McIlrath. Fowler is a -57 in his NHL career. His point totals have dropped each season. If he was a stock,you could have made a fortune shorting him. Anaheim gave Fowler $4M per starting next season. Good luck to them. Dylan should enter the conversation at some point next season. The Rangers need his physical play. Ovechkin made a comment about the Rangers D not being physical and he's right. The Rangers really lack that element.
McILrath will be on the team next year and he will destroy people.

Torts holds almost of his players accountable except MDZ, I don't know why...but he does.

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05-10-2013, 09:43 AM
  #200
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McILrath will be on the team next year and he will destroy people.

Torts holds almost of his players accountable except MDZ, I don't know why...but he does.
He had zero issue with sending MDZ down to Hartford a couple seasons ago. Hes had zero issue with cutting his minutes as hes struggled these first few games of the playoffs. I think you're making the special treatment stuff up.

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