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The Rumours and Speculation Thread #4

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Old
05-10-2013, 09:39 AM
  #576
Snotbubbles
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
Matching that offersheet was the dumbest thing Nashville ever did. No player is worth 4 first rounds picks in todays NHL, especially for a team that drafts well. I would be upset if the Flyers matched such an offer for Giroux. Add the crippling financial burden on the team and it was a poor decision.
It's not a crippling decision.

Weber is the face of the franchise. Some players mean more than just on ice product. Weber is that guy for Nashville. Plus, 5 years from now, Webers deal will be great value for them. It's a bit of short-term pain for long-term gain. If their billionaire owner can wrestle more control from the other partners, Nashville could see a major payroll increase a la the Buffalo Sabres.

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05-10-2013, 09:54 AM
  #577
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If their billionaire owner can wrestle more control from the other partners, Nashville could see a major payroll increase a la the Buffalo Sabres.
That just doesn't make sense. If he increased their payroll with their current attendance and TV contract, Wilson would lose money. If he doesn't care about losing money, he could simply throw the money into the team today without that increased ownership stake.

The Nashville market can absolutely support an NHL team, but certainly not an annual cap team with profitability.

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05-10-2013, 09:57 AM
  #578
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
That just doesn't make sense. If he increased their payroll with their current attendance and TV contract, Wilson would lose money. If he doesn't care about losing money, he could simply throw the money into the team today without that increased ownership stake.

The Nashville market can absolutely support an NHL team, but certainly not an annual cap team with profitability.
Same thing could be said about St Louis as well. Fans gets caught up in the part where "they are die hard fans" of the team and all that. They have to realize first and foremost they are running a business, if they don't make money, they won't be too excited about the team and franchise. These people didn't become rich by throwing away money, I think we tend to forget that as fans.

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05-10-2013, 10:26 AM
  #579
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Same thing could be said about St Louis as well. Fans gets caught up in the part where "they are die hard fans" of the team and all that. They have to realize first and foremost they are running a business, if they don't make money, they won't be too excited about the team and franchise. These people didn't become rich by throwing away money, I think we tend to forget that as fans.
A lot of sports team owners aren't in in for the money though. Some do treat it like an investment and those teams tend to suffer (like the Dodgers under McCourt), but for many of them it's a prestige thing. Another shiny toy alongside their private jet and Mediterranean villa. If they happen to turn a profit, great. If not, they still get to tell all their friends they are part owners of a professional sports franchise and sit in the nice box seats.

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05-10-2013, 11:25 AM
  #580
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Originally Posted by dawkins121 View Post
A lot of sports team owners aren't in in for the money though. Some do treat it like an investment and those teams tend to suffer (like the Dodgers under McCourt), but for many of them it's a prestige thing. Another shiny toy alongside their private jet and Mediterranean villa. If they happen to turn a profit, great. If not, they still get to tell all their friends they are part owners of a professional sports franchise and sit in the nice box seats.
It's both. Prestige and making money. If doesn't make money - tax write off. If grows a little -- keeps up with inflation so your investment /money doesn't depreciate. If grows a lot - profit.

Buying a sports team is akin to buying a house. A non-liquid asset that tends to beat inflation. Wealthy people are good at making money. There is a reason that wealthy men fall all over themselves to purchase one.

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Old
05-10-2013, 12:38 PM
  #581
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I would do the Edler/Couturier deal. I'd even do it including the swapping 1sts. I'm not convinced Couts will ever produce enough offensively to be a top-6 forward. If he's a good 3C who's excellent defensively then he certainly has value, but Edler is a need, and top-4 PMD > 3C.

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05-10-2013, 12:48 PM
  #582
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If Edler isn't a legit number 1 who can step into Timonen's spot he isn't a need. I'm not convinced Edler is that guy, though I haven't seen a lot of him this year. If we need a PMD I'd rather put Gus in that spot, rather than trash our forward corps' defensive ability by trading Couturier.

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05-10-2013, 12:51 PM
  #583
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Honestly, I'd rather keep giving Gus 20+ minutes each night and see him bloom into something more. He has definitely shown he can play very well when given the minutes.

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05-10-2013, 12:54 PM
  #584
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Honestly, I'd rather keep giving Gus 20+ minutes each night and see him bloom into something more. He has definitely shown he can play very well when given the minutes.
Yes, I'd rather develop Gus for ~1 mil than open a gaping hole in the forwards' defensive ability for an additional 5 mil. I'm tired of paying to get other team's Dmen, we need to develop our own. That seems to finally be happening, so let's stay the course.


Last edited by Beef Invictus: 05-10-2013 at 12:56 PM. Reason: oops
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Old
05-10-2013, 12:59 PM
  #585
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
If Edler isn't a legit number 1 who can step into Timonen's spot he isn't a need. I'm not convinced Edler is that guy, though I haven't seen a lot of him this year. If we need a PMD I'd rather put Gus in that spot, rather than trash our forward corps' defensive ability by trading Couturier.
Exactly.
At this point Edler is in the same tier as Coburn, a good #2 but not a #1. If he were, the Canucks wouldn't trade him.

I'd be ok with moving Couturier, but that trade has to be a slam dunk, i.e. a #1 coming back.

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05-10-2013, 01:03 PM
  #586
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Yes, I'd rather develop Gus for ~1 mil than open a gaping hole in the forwards' defensive ability for an additional 5 mil. I'm tired of paying to get other team's Dmen, we need to develop our own. That seems to finally be happening, so let's stay the course.
And weirdly enough, it wasn't someone that was drafted either. Read undrafted. Bob undrafted. If he stays with the Flyers, you can throw Akeson on that list too on players the Flyers signed that have panned out from being undrafted.

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05-10-2013, 01:04 PM
  #587
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If the game is to trade Couts for defender i wouldnt go after guy like Edler or Yandle.
I would pay more to get real king of defence, something like Weber. It have to be a guy who can offense and defence, can play PK and PP or at the end of match. Somebody who is punishing with hits and owns our front of goal.

If we buyout or get rid of Meszarov and Briere, how about bringing Myers in with that first round pick ? Buffalo is rebuildin hard so that would be fair offer?

If we go after Edler, how is this working, Couts+Read+Meszarov for Edler+Kassian or Edler+1st+2nd?


Tell me, what are here the most fair value and if not what we need to add:

Couts for:

-Byfuglien
-Ryan
-Weber
-Myers

1st for:

-Myers
-Yandle

2nd for:

-Kassian
-Ott

Read for:
-Kassian
-Ott
-1st top15

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Old
05-10-2013, 01:07 PM
  #588
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Originally Posted by JayB View Post
If the game is to trade Couts for defender i wouldnt go after guy like Edler or Yandle.
I would pay more to get real king of defence, something like Weber. It have to be a guy who can offense and defence, can play PK and PP or at the end of match. Somebody who is punishing with hits and owns our front of goal.

If we buyout or get rid of Meszarov and Briere, how about bringing Myers in with that first round pick ? Buffalo is rebuildin hard so that would be fair offer?

If we go after Edler, how is this working, Couts+Read+Meszarov for Edler+Kassian or Edler+1st+2nd?


Tell me, what are here the most fair value and if not what we need to add:

Couts for:

-Byfuglien
-Ryan
-Weber
-Myers

1st for:

-Myers
-Yandle

2nd for:

-Kassian
-Ott

Read for:
-Kassian
-Ott
-1st top15
For Ryan, I'd rather wait till he's a free agent. If he still wants to a be a Flyer (and I'm sure he will still have all his connections to here), I wouldn't doubt if he signed with the Flyers then.

If we could get Read for a top 15 1st rounder of this year... hmmm...

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05-10-2013, 01:10 PM
  #589
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I don't see the need for Ott when we have Talbot. They're basically the same player except Ott's strong on draws.


Last edited by LegionOfDoom91: 05-10-2013 at 01:26 PM.
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Old
05-10-2013, 01:17 PM
  #590
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I don't see the need for Ott when we have Talbot. They're basically the same player expect Ott's strong on draws.
Oh goodness, Ott would make me reconsider my feelings towards the Flyers if they brought him on. I don't subscribe to the "you hate him on other teams but would love him on the Flyers". And Ott is among my least favourite NHLers.

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Old
05-10-2013, 01:20 PM
  #591
A Clerk
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if i remember correctly i remember a lot of canucks fans saying edler is almost the exact same kind of player as coburn

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05-10-2013, 01:23 PM
  #592
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Originally Posted by JayB View Post
If the game is to trade Couts for defender i wouldnt go after guy like Edler or Yandle.
I would pay more to get real king of defence, something like Weber. It have to be a guy who can offense and defence, can play PK and PP or at the end of match. Somebody who is punishing with hits and owns our front of goal.

If we buyout or get rid of Meszarov and Briere, how about bringing Myers in with that first round pick ? Buffalo is rebuildin hard so that would be fair offer?

If we go after Edler, how is this working, Couts+Read+Meszarov for Edler+Kassian or Edler+1st+2nd?


Tell me, what are here the most fair value and if not what we need to add:

Couts for:

-Byfuglien
-Ryan
-Weber
-Myers

1st for:

-Myers
-Yandle

2nd for:

-Kassian
-Ott

Read for:
-Kassian
-Ott
-1st top15
I don't expect Couturier's trade value to be high enough to be the biggest piece in a major trade. There may be some GMs who see the sky-high potential he had coming into the draft, but I think Holmgren wouldn't get too far starting with Couturier for the players you named, unless the + is huge.

Incidentally, there's no way at this moment that Couturier > Edler. Sorry, Larry. I don't see Edler as a Weber-type all-around #1 Dman, but I could definitely see him working very well with Coburn or Grossmann; an Edler-Coburn pairing is very fast, and Coburn could concentrate on defense. Maybe Laviolette could drop a soda machine on a puppy before every game to ensure angry-Coburn shows up.

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Old
05-10-2013, 02:25 PM
  #593
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Yes, I'd rather develop Gus for ~1 mil than open a gaping hole in the forwards' defensive ability for an additional 5 mil. I'm tired of paying to get other team's Dmen, we need to develop our own. That seems to finally be happening, so let's stay the course.
I agree, but I don't see it happening. There is no way they are going to have the patience to wait 3-4 years minimum to develop their own. They will overpay in a trade.

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05-10-2013, 02:32 PM
  #594
Jack de la Hoya
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if i remember correctly i remember a lot of canucks fans saying edler is almost the exact same kind of player as coburn
Nah, he's much better offensively, and not nearly as good defensively.

Very different players. I'm not sure we have a comparable to Edler. Maybe a better version of a healthy Meszaros (c. 2011?)--big, fast, sometimes physical, with good offensive tools and decent defensive play.

He's not a number one, but he'd be a useful piece:

Edler-Coburn
Timonen-Schenn
Grossmann-Gustafsson

(Deal Meszaros for a conditional pick (on GP) or something).

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05-10-2013, 02:44 PM
  #595
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if i remember correctly i remember a lot of canucks fans saying edler is almost the exact same kind of player as coburn
Edler isn't like Coburn imo...Edler consistently puts up 40+ pts per (82 gm) season (Coburn broke 30 once, years ago). He has a better shot he uses with more frequency and is good on the PP...moves the puck with more confidence than Coburn...defensively they're probably close, but Edler is likely a more physical player...Edler isn't a alpha dog #1 D man but he's top pairing type material...one concern I'd have would be his health, as he has some sort of chronic (I want to say back) issue he's been dealing with. It hasn't seemed to keep him down in recent times, so...

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05-10-2013, 02:47 PM
  #596
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Edler may not be a true #1 on an elite team, but he can eat major minutes and run a power play, which is especially important with Timonen about to retire. I don't expect much out of Kimmo next year after a full Olympic year schedule, plus playing in Sochi.

I'd love to see them draft and develop their own d-men, but it takes time and there's going to be a gaping hole after Kimmo leaves.

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05-10-2013, 03:05 PM
  #597
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Nothing I've seen here makes me want to trade Couturier for him.

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Old
05-10-2013, 03:13 PM
  #598
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Nothing I've seen here makes me want to trade Couturier for him.
Someone suggesting Read for a Top 15 pick sounds enticing though.

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Old
05-10-2013, 03:26 PM
  #599
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I'd rather have Yandle than Edler.

But honestly, I wouldn't trade Couts for either of them. Id rather either trade him for a younger guy like Meyers, or trade some other pieces for an additional first and draft multiple defensemen.

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05-10-2013, 03:30 PM
  #600
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Nothing I've seen here makes me want to trade Couturier for him.
I'd consider a straight up trade Coots for Edler...Edler is a proven, productive arguably top pairing D man in his prime...Couturier is still mostly potential that may never be realized. I like Coots and would love to see him stay, but that would be a trade I'd probably have to do.

P.S. Edler played with Luck Schenn in Jr.


Last edited by fauxflex: 05-10-2013 at 03:40 PM.
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