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Old
05-10-2013, 08:48 AM
  #51
dmanfish90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McSorleyStick View Post
Gorges sucks; overpaid and overrated
[url]http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=55374[url]

The guy is a plus player year in and year out (minus the one year where he played less than half a season due to injury).

People, enough with the Gorges sucks. You can have your opinion, but i don't think you realize that memories should go back further than 4 months.

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05-10-2013, 08:58 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
One superstar D: Subban - check
One veteran D: Markov - check
One physical D: Emelin - check
Stayhome Big D #1: Tinordi - check
Stayhome Big D #2: ???
Stayhome Big D #3: ???
Two puck-moving Defencemen: Markov, Subban (Diaz maybe)
Two shut-down Defencemen: Gorges, Subban
Two big/hitting defenceman: Tinordi, Emelin (Bouillon hits, but he's a smurf)

We're good on the backhand guys. Our D is the most UNDERRATED in the NHL IMO

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05-10-2013, 09:21 AM
  #53
Ollie Williams
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I believe our defense was not good at all this season. They produced wonders offensively, but defensively they were not very good. Too many times the other teams' players were left untouched in our crease to pick up rebounds. Every time we went against a team that attacked the net hard, we did not have the power to lay them out when a rebound occurred. We need a few bigger meaner bodies on the D squad. I'm not talking about guys that will flatten you at the blue line Subban/Emelin style. Watch replays of what punishment Gallagher got when trying to go to the net in the Ottawa series and compare that to what Sens players got when going to ours. They were free to roam.

Edit: If Tinordi is going to be one of those big mean guys, he needs to start acting like it.

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05-10-2013, 09:47 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie Williams View Post
I believe our defense was not good at all this season. They produced wonders offensively, but defensively they were not very good. Too many times the other teams' players were left untouched in our crease to pick up rebounds. Every time we went against a team that attacked the net hard, we did not have the power to lay them out when a rebound occurred. We need a few bigger meaner bodies on the D squad. I'm not talking about guys that will flatten you at the blue line Subban/Emelin style. Watch replays of what punishment Gallagher got when trying to go to the net in the Ottawa series and compare that to what Sens players got when going to ours. They were free to roam.

Edit: If Tinordi is going to be one of those big mean guys, he needs to start acting like it.
Give Tinordi some time, the kid just turned 21. He will add some weight this summer, forwards will start to hate him soon. But I agree, we need a big stay at home with a mean streak guy that can play #2-3 minutes. We'll have to trade to get that though

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05-10-2013, 09:56 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
Two puck-moving Defencemen: Markov, Subban (Diaz maybe)
Two shut-down Defencemen: Gorges, Subban
Two big/hitting defenceman: Tinordi, Emelin (Bouillon hits, but he's a smurf)

We're good on the backhand guys. Our D is the most UNDERRATED in the NHL IMO
Our D was horrible for the last 13 games of the season. Losing 1 guy should not cause the kind of tailspin they had.

For me it's quite simple, they need a big #2 defenseman to play with Subban, like Methot does with Karlsson. We also need a RH #6 stay at home guy who can clear the crease.

Gorges, Diaz, Weber, and Kaberle all have to go. Gorges could probably stay as I think he'll bounce back but he'll need to earn his spot not have it given to him.

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05-10-2013, 10:01 AM
  #56
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By the end of the season, would be nice to see something like this:

Tinordi-Subban
Markov-Emelin
Beaulieu-Gorges
Bouilion/Diaz

Not saying Tinordi is a top pairing guy, but would be nice if he could stick with Subban. I would also expect Bouilion/Diaz to be in for Tinordi/Beaulieu quite a bit during the season, especially the first half.

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05-10-2013, 10:03 AM
  #57
HiggsBozon
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Our D is not in that bad of a shape. Replace Gorges by a genuine, great #2/3 d-man who is big, can hit and is not inept offensively (say, Bieksa... uhrm...), and it's not looking so bad. With Bieksa, Tinordi and Emelin we have 3 big d-men who won't take abuse from anyone and who will make it painful to enter our zone. We then have Markov, who is also physical, and Subban, who is not taking **** from anyone neither.

In more offensive/fast paced games, rest Tinordi or Bouillon and put Diaz in.

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05-10-2013, 10:04 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahabsfanfromtoronto View Post
Tinordi-Subban
Markov-Bieksa
Emelin-Gorges

Goodnight and good luck.
I was actually thinking about that defence. That would be very good. Every one playing on their good side and tougness on all pair.

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05-10-2013, 10:05 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa_Bear_21 View Post
Don't really see how Gorges can be a lock. Acthally, if we continue to play the same defensive system, I can't see Gorges having much value on this team. He's not big, he's not great defensively, he doesn't dominate anyone physically, he doesn't skate well (straight line or laterally), he's not great in the transition game and has very little offensive skill. He's a good team player, but does not bring enough for this team to be a regular top 4 next year. And in my bottom two, I would prefer having a physical brute playing with Diaz (yes Diaz is my number 6).
Agreed, somehow people/coaching staff has confused Gorges as top 3 dman. I don't see it at all. I see someone who is about offensively gifted as Hal Gill, but worse defensively. I don't get the hype, he's still a bottom pairing dman imo.

Hopefully Markov can bounce back, the way he played down the stretch was quite alarming. He was atrocious, but condensed schedule/first season with a large amount of competitive hockey likely played a role. He was caught jumping more than any dman I remember in recent times.. Seemed every 2-1 was markov pinch. We need some rugged boys who are defensively sound.

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05-10-2013, 10:06 AM
  #60
TheGoalJudge
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In my eyes, we have two top 4 D-men. Subban is a first pairing and Markov is a 2nd pairing.

Emelin was an ok 2nd pairing but now he's gone. The rest are bottom pairing.

I would love to move some prospects and picks for a #2 Dman. I would look to do Gorges + Tinordi + a 1st and come up with a sure thing stud.

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05-10-2013, 11:14 AM
  #61
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For me Diaz looks like somebody's kid brother, frequently pushed off the puck, engages the opponent with feeble little poke checks. Sure he can pass and shoot the puck but so can Emelin. Sayonara Raphael hope we get a decent return based on his pre-Subban regular season PP numbers.

And Gorges, I'm disappoint.

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Old
05-10-2013, 11:21 AM
  #62
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Why not trade Markov?
He was horrid during the playoff and during regular season.
If we can get a decent return I say go for it.
We also need to push Bouillon to 7th dman, I love him but at this point he is mostly spare part. We need to add a big mean dman to pair up with Diaz.

Subban - Tinordi
Diaz - Mean Dman
Georges - Emelin
Bouillon

I think it could work.

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05-10-2013, 11:32 AM
  #63
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Subban-Tinordi
Markov-Emelin
Gorges-Diaz
Bouillon-Beaulieu

We have a PMD and a shutdown D on each of those pairings wich I think is very important. Gorges is a good vet to have and a Pk specialist. Tinordi on the first pair should get around 20 min of ice time during the game with Gorges switching with him in most crucial moments
It's funny how Diaz went from our #2 D in Subban absence and a vital piece of our to team to a must trade guy. It's his first PO experience, he'll be alright.

The D is fine we need to replace floaters like Desharnais and Ryder up front and we're a lock for the playoffs and a legit contender

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05-10-2013, 11:35 AM
  #64
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I would quietly but surely make Diaz and Gorges available. Not shop them per say but if someone catches your eye you offer them.

They are NHL players of quality but they're redundant.

Subban Tinordi
Markov Emelin
Bouillon xxxxx

Drewiske - Beaulieu(in Hamilton but waiting for a call up)

Make sure xxxxx is big and physical.

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05-10-2013, 11:37 AM
  #65
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05-10-2013, 11:41 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredflag View Post
Why not trade Markov?
He was horrid during the playoff and during regular season.
If we can get a decent return I say go for it.
We also need to push Bouillon to 7th dman, I love him but at this point he is mostly spare part. We need to add a big mean dman to pair up with Diaz.

Subban - Tinordi
Diaz - Mean Dman
Georges - Emelin
Bouillon

I think it could work.
It's obvious that trading Markov may be a solution. Not sure what to expect via a trade. Honestly, I would move Diaz before Markov but we know wich one has more trade value. To me, the only untouchable D we have is Subban and Tinordi.
Subban for the obvious reason and Tinordi for the type of Dman he will become. The rest is about getting the right fit via a trade.

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05-10-2013, 11:51 AM
  #67
Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezpz View Post
Markov is more of a lock than Gorges. Let's not pretend Gorges wasn't one of our worst Dmen all season.
That's not saying much, until Emelin's injury the defense was the top scoring one in the NHL and allowing one of the lowest SOG per game.

Some people seriously need to watch other teams play. Watch the Toronto defense, watch the Pens defense(Niskanen + Eaton + Murray!) or the Islanders defense(Strait #4 in minutes!!!). If you think Gorges is bad, go watch NYR with Stralman with #3 minutes or Phaneuf making 6.5 mil, Fraser or Kostka playing key minutes.

There is A LOT more to playing defense than putting somebody on their ass in the slot, otherwise guys like K.McLaren and Commodore would still be in the NHL.

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05-10-2013, 11:54 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post
Subban will be our #1, Tinordi should be given the #2 spot on his line so that other players (Markov and Bouillon) have less minutes, Gorges and Markov should be our #3 and #4, and _______ and Bouillon as our #5 and 6 defensemen (trade for a big physical defensive dman)...Emelin our 7th as he can still bring physicality while not being exposed a weak defensive player (as seen before his injury).
There is so much lol in this post!

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05-10-2013, 11:58 AM
  #69
Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Our D is not in that bad of a shape. Replace Gorges by a genuine, great #2/3 d-man who is big, can hit and is not inept offensively (say, Bieksa... uhrm...), and it's not looking so bad. With Bieksa, Tinordi and Emelin we have 3 big d-men who won't take abuse from anyone and who will make it painful to enter our zone. We then have Markov, who is also physical, and Subban, who is not taking **** from anyone neither.

In more offensive/fast paced games, rest Tinordi or Bouillon and put Diaz in.
How is Bieksa a "great #2-3 d-man who is big"?

http://espn.go.com/nhl/player/_/id/3269/kevin-bieksa

He is listed smaller than Gorges, a bit more physical but not as good on PK and his offensive numbers are not much better(9pts vs 12 points) but he has a bigger cap hit.

A perfect example of "the grass is always greener on the other side".

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05-10-2013, 12:02 PM
  #70
Et le But
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
How is Bieksa a "great #2-3 d-man who is big"?

http://espn.go.com/nhl/player/_/id/3269/kevin-bieksa

He is listed smaller than Gorges, a bit more physical but not as good on PK and his offensive numbers are not much better(9pts vs 12 points) but he has a bigger cap hit.

A perfect example of "the grass is always greener on the other side".
Bieksa and Hamhuis were typically used as Vancouver's hard minute pairing. While Hamhuis is probably the better of the two, Gorges has only been able to handle such a role when playing with Subban.

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05-10-2013, 12:03 PM
  #71
HiggsBozon
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
That's not saying much, until Emelin's injury the defense was the top scoring one in the NHL and allowing one of the lowest SOG per game.

Some people seriously need to watch other teams play. Watch the Toronto defense, watch the Pens defense(Niskanen + Eaton + Murray!) or the Islanders defense(Strait #4 in minutes!!!). If you think Gorges is bad, go watch NYR with Stralman with #3 minutes or Phaneuf making 6.5 mil, Fraser or Kostka playing key minutes.

There is A LOT more to playing defense than putting somebody on their ass in the slot, otherwise guys like K.McLaren and Commodore would still be in the NHL.
You are still incredibly biased.
Niskanen is not a bad D, and Murray still would be our #1 goal scorer if he was on our team for the playoffs. And they still got Letang, Orpik and Martin in front of them.

In Toronto, you have Phaneuf, then a bunch of guys (#2,3,4,5) playing around the same. After that, you got a guy like Fraser who's the clear-cut #6. Then again, Toronto has a diversified D with several key ingredients. Key ingredients, I repeat, that Gorges just won't bring.

In NYR, Stralman has been playing #5 minutes all year long, they're just re-adapting Staal after a long injury.

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05-10-2013, 12:06 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Bieksa and Hamhuis were typically used as Vancouver's hard minute pairing. While Hamhuis is probably the better of the two, Gorges has only been able to handle such a role when playing with Subban.
Bieksa is also a much better skater, a much more physical player, and a way better offensive player as a whole than Josh Gorges. To compare them offensively is pretty clueless when you consider Bieksa's one hand wrister is probably just as quick as Gorges' slapper.

He might not have been as big as I thought, but he sure plays much bigger than what he is, in comparison to Gorges who is a pathetic display of weakness night in and night out.

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05-10-2013, 12:09 PM
  #73
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Bieksa and Hamhuis were typically used as Vancouver's hard minute pairing. While Hamhuis is probably the better of the two, Gorges has only been able to handle such a role when playing with Subban.
He handled it will Gill also.

Honestly this site is getting pathetic. Player X makes peanuts and is a solid contributor..."love this guy, he is a warrior"..."the next captain" etc Player X signs an extension to his earned value..."player X has to go he makes too much" ..."we need to move player X and get a "real" (insert role)". Gorges Desharnais Price are all getting it, Subban will be next along with Gallagher Galchenyuk etc

The last 5 years Gorges has played 4 full ones, through injuries, getting hit in the head with the puck and all. Except for 10-11 when he blew out his knee, he's played 20+ minutes all of those years and been a plus player, including a ridiculous +14 last year. So he must be doing SOMETHING right.

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05-10-2013, 12:12 PM
  #74
HiggsBozon
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
He handled it will Gill also.

Honestly this site is getting pathetic. Player X makes peanuts and is a solid contributor..."love this guy, he is a warrior"..."the next captain" etc Player X signs an extension to his earned value..."player X has to go he makes too much" ..."we need to move player X and get a "real" (insert role)". Gorges Desharnais Price are all getting it, Subban will be next along with Gallagher Galchenyuk etc

The last 5 years Gorges has played 4 full ones, through injuries, getting hit in the head with the puck and all. Except for 10-11 when he blew out his knee, he's played 20+ minutes all of those years and been a plus player, including a ridiculous +14 last year. So he must be doing SOMETHING right.
Here we go with the differential excuse that you just won,t use for Galchenyuk. It's incredible how flawed and inconsistent your standards are.

Back on subject:

Subban is potentially going to be the first black player to ever win the Norris Trophy.
Galchenyuk is a 3rd overall pick.

Are you actually comparing those situations to Gorges, an undrafted player who's never showed any ability excluding the one to block shots?

The fact he got hit to the head by a ****ing shot has nothing to do with his quality as a player. Wiz got his face rearranged by a slapper against Edmonton one time. Are we labelling him as a fearless warrior?

The only reason why you have the impression he handled tough minutes with Gill is that Halak was there to save their ***** while they were on the ice, moving like bacon slices in butter.

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05-10-2013, 12:15 PM
  #75
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
You are still incredibly biased.
Niskanen is not a bad D, and Murray still would be our #1 goal scorer if he was on our team for the playoffs. And they still got Letang, Orpik and Martin in front of them.

In Toronto, you have Phaneuf, then a bunch of guys (#2,3,4,5) playing around the same. After that, you got a guy like Fraser who's the clear-cut #6. Then again, Toronto has a diversified D with several key ingredients. Key ingredients, I repeat, that Gorges just won't bring.

In NYR, Stralman has been playing #5 minutes all year long, they're just re-adapting Staal after a long injury.
Niskanen is a poor man's Diaz. Similar size but less skill. If you called Shero and offered him that trade he'd take it in a second amd throw in a good pick. Murray having 2 goals is irrelevant, it's a fluke, like winning the lottery.

Gorges would easily be #2 in Toronto.

Well the habs are just adjusting to Emelin's injury. Doesn't stop people like you from complaining we don't have a good defense.

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