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05-09-2013, 06:38 PM
  #201
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Call me crazy, but I'd rather the team I follow not fight than get their business completely handed to them like the Habs did. Ideally, I'd like them to fight more than they do now and win, but if the choices are don't fight at all or get completely demolished 5/5, I'd rather they not fight.
maybe the Rangers players knows that they are soft so they dont fight on purpose

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05-09-2013, 06:41 PM
  #202
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maybe the Rangers players knows that they are soft so they dont fight on purpose
I assume that's part of it. Smart move IMO. Unless someone did something really dirty that needs to be answered, there's no point in fighting if you know you're not good at it. The Habs have looked absolutely dead since getting wrecked by the Sens.

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05-09-2013, 06:59 PM
  #203
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I like the mentality I have seen from Dorsett thus far.

I think he will improve if we progress deeper into the playoffs — let's not forget that he's been out as long as Staal, and unlike Staal, he hadn't even played a game as a Ranger before drawing into the lineup in game two.

He reminds me of Avery, but he seems like more of a shooter and he seems a bit more aggressive/strong.

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05-09-2013, 07:17 PM
  #204
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I assume that's part of it. Smart move IMO. Unless someone did something really dirty that needs to be answered, there's no point in fighting if you know you're not good at it. The Habs have looked absolutely dead since getting wrecked by the Sens.
this wasnt a dirty hit but when the game is out of hand and no one does anything is pretty sad


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05-09-2013, 07:29 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
this wasnt a dirty hit but when the game is out of hand and no one does anything is pretty sad

Yeah I don't disagree. They should have fought in both of those circumstances, but in general, I'd rather they avoid it if they aren't confident in their abilities.

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05-09-2013, 07:36 PM
  #206
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Actually surprised to see some Penguins tapping their sticks for Kreider

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05-09-2013, 08:11 PM
  #207
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Generally guys who don't fight often don't fight well. Even some who do fight often don't fight well. When you have a roster full of guys who hardly ever drop the gloves then when something happens they keep their gloves on. Then there are the size mismatches--Prust for example--a great fighter for his size--but not really able to handle a much bigger Lucic or a Boulton.

As an example--at least a majority here remember Gaborik being mugged by Carcillo. It fell to the much maligned (in some quarters) and much smaller Sean Avery to extract some revenge and he did well to hang in with the much bigger Carcillo but there was a profound sense afterwards that the team team couldn't take care of its own and before the year was over we said hello to Prust and also hello to Jody Shelley. Rangers weren't tough enough--it's very unlikely you'll win in the playoffs if you're not tough enough.

It's a matter of other teams respecting you--not taking extra liberties with your better players. If your tough guys can play a bit that's best of all. Apart from Ryane Clowe, Arron Asham and Derek Dorsett nobody on this current Rangers team is capable of much more than a bit of pushing and shoving--maybe Newbury. I'm sorry to have to break this to some people here but Callahan is not a fighter--neither is Boyle or anyone on our D. One of these days McIlrath should make an appearance and hopefully be a key contributor on the ice somewhat in the same way that Lucic is a key contributor for the Bruins--albeit different positions.

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05-09-2013, 08:44 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Generally guys who don't fight often don't fight well. Even some who do fight often don't fight well. When you have a roster full of guys who hardly ever drop the gloves then when something happens they keep their gloves on. Then there are the size mismatches--Prust for example--a great fighter for his size--but not really able to handle a much bigger Lucic or a Boulton.

As an example--at least a majority here remember Gaborik being mugged by Carcillo. It fell to the much maligned (in some quarters) and much smaller Sean Avery to extract some revenge and he did well to hang in with the much bigger Carcillo but there was a profound sense afterwards that the team team couldn't take care of its own and before the year was over we said hello to Prust and also hello to Jody Shelley. Rangers weren't tough enough--it's very unlikely you'll win in the playoffs if you're not tough enough.

It's a matter of other teams respecting you--not taking extra liberties with your better players. If your tough guys can play a bit that's best of all. Apart from Ryane Clowe, Arron Asham and Derek Dorsett nobody on this current Rangers team is capable of much more than a bit of pushing and shoving--maybe Newbury. I'm sorry to have to break this to some people here but Callahan is not a fighter--neither is Boyle or anyone on our D. One of these days McIlrath should make an appearance and hopefully be a key contributor on the ice somewhat in the same way that Lucic is a key contributor for the Bruins--albeit different positions.
Boyle. i hate when he fights although i do love that he shows heart and willing to stick up if something happens. i wish some other leaders would do this. but how can a guy be that big at 6'7 and be not strong enough to win a few fight.. is his balance that bad or is he not that strong for a big guy

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05-10-2013, 12:01 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
Boyle. i hate when he fights although i do love that he shows heart and willing to stick up if something happens. i wish some other leaders would do this. but how can a guy be that big at 6'7 and be not strong enough to win a few fight.. is his balance that bad or is he not that strong for a big guy
Fighting is natural. Some people got it, and some people don't. George McPhee could kick anyone's ass and he was 5'8. Same with Theo Fleury and he was 5'6. Some guys just aren't fighters and Boyle isn't a fighter. Nothing wrong with that.

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05-10-2013, 07:50 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
Call me crazy, but I'd rather the team I follow not fight than get their business completely handed to them like the Habs did. Ideally, I'd like them to fight more than they do now and win, but if the choices are don't fight at all or get completely demolished 5/5, I'd rather they not fight.
Neither of those circumstances are what I want to see. I want to see a big, mean, physically intimidating team take the attack to the other team. Forechecking, hitting, fighting. All of it should be involved.

I was almost sick watching this team play without Asham earlier in the year when Rupp was dealt. Talk about a VERY soft line-up. It builds team chemistry to be able to take care of your own. Pretty much every team who does well in the playoffs can do that.

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05-10-2013, 08:32 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Neither of those circumstances are what I want to see. I want to see a big, mean, physically intimidating team take the attack to the other team. Forechecking, hitting, fighting. All of it should be involved.

I was almost sick watching this team play without Asham earlier in the year when Rupp was dealt. Talk about a VERY soft line-up. It builds team chemistry to be able to take care of your own. Pretty much every team who does well in the playoffs can do that.
well lets state the facts.


Canucks Wild Habs all gone from playoffs. all 3 teams are soft.... and Red Wings might be next..... i dont think its a coinsidence

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05-10-2013, 08:51 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
well lets state the facts.


Canucks Wild Habs all gone from playoffs. all 3 teams are soft.... and Red Wings might be next..... i dont think its a coinsidence
Ottawa, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Boston all doing well. Anaheim is a feisty team. Same with SJ.

The Rangers started to play well when they added some tougher guys like Clowe and getting Asham back healthy. They finished 1st in the East last year and had the most fighting majors in the league.

Boston is considered a very tough team and they have a Cup and multiple deep playoff runs the past 4-5 years.

A couple of years ago, Patrick Kane came out and said that the reason they had struggled after their Cup win was because they lacked any sort of toughness and grit throughout their line-up.

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05-10-2013, 08:57 AM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Neither of those circumstances are what I want to see. I want to see a big, mean, physically intimidating team take the attack to the other team. Forechecking, hitting, fighting. All of it should be involved.

I was almost sick watching this team play without Asham earlier in the year when Rupp was dealt. Talk about a VERY soft line-up. It builds team chemistry to be able to take care of your own. Pretty much every team who does well in the playoffs can do that.
Now you don't want to stir up the Indira Gandhi faction of the board do you? All the crying about "staged" fights at the beginning of the season and the altogether hate for fighting by some around here. The fact is the Sens punched the Habs right onto the first tee.

The return of Clowe helps but the addition of McIlrath in future seasons will make the team a whole lot more difficult to play against. Especially this time of year.

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05-10-2013, 09:03 AM
  #214
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Now you don't want to stir up the Indira Gandhi faction of the board do you? All the crying about "staged" fights at the beginning of the season and the altogether hate for fighting by some around here. The fact is the Sens punched the Habs right onto the first tee.

The return of Clowe helps but the addition of McIlrath in future seasons will make the team a whole lot more difficult to play against. Especially this time of year.
Yep and the addition of Dorsett will help as well. I am hoping they can replace players like Pyatt and Powe with players who can both play and drop the gloves. Would make the team better IMO.

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05-10-2013, 09:20 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Yep and the addition of Dorsett will help as well. I am hoping they can replace players like Pyatt and Powe with players who can both play and drop the gloves. Would make the team better IMO.
Rangers have some young kids in the minors that can do that. im excited to see whenever Yogan can get a real look once he stays healthy.. he has talent and some snarl but tends to get hurt a bit... wouldnt mind him as a 4th liner next year if given a chance... with the cap going down, rather replace Pyatt and Powe with younger kids that have a cheaper contract.... heck give Haley or Mashinter another look for next year. its most likely make or break for them... rangers also need to imrpove their speed.. they arent a fast team.. i wouldnt mind Ferriero getting another look....

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05-10-2013, 09:25 AM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
Rangers have some young kids in the minors that can do that. im excited to see whenever Yogan can get a real look once he stays healthy.. he has talent and some snarl but tends to get hurt a bit... wouldnt mind him as a 4th liner next year if given a chance... with the cap going down, rather replace Pyatt and Powe with younger kids that have a cheaper contract.... heck give Haley or Mashinter another look for next year. its most likely make or break for them... rangers also need to imrpove their speed.. they arent a fast team.. i wouldnt mind Ferriero getting another look....
I like Haley, I think he could be a player for this team.

Not sure Yogan would be ready next year. My feeling is he needs another year in the AHL.

If Mashinter can come into camp next season and be more forceful he would help as well.

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05-10-2013, 10:06 AM
  #217
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Yep and the addition of Dorsett will help as well. I am hoping they can replace players like Pyatt and Powe with players who can both play and drop the gloves. Would make the team better IMO.
Exactly. Need to be better able to handle chippy games with balanced toughness.

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05-10-2013, 10:11 AM
  #218
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I like Haley, I think he could be a player for this team.

Not sure Yogan would be ready next year. My feeling is he needs another year in the AHL.

If Mashinter can come into camp next season and be more forceful he would help as well.
Haley and Mash should definitely be lineup options next year. Haley's on a one way and Mash can take on most of the HWs in the league.

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05-10-2013, 10:16 AM
  #219
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Toughness is clearly a big factor to teams success. And as others have said, it's about having team toughness and not just a 3 minute a night tough guy.

Haley I'm still hoping for. Big hits can change momentum and the dude can really hit. Clearly he can drop the gloves as well.


If Haley can continue to improve on a lot of the little things then we have a player with him going forward. Dunno about Mash however... Didn't impose his will enough when he got his chances. And his play wasn't enough to make up for it. Just seemed fine skating around and that isn't good enough.

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05-10-2013, 10:57 AM
  #220
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A lot of people compared Dorsett to Prust, but he doesn't seem to be the skater or passer that Prust is. Is it because he still isn't in 100% game shape?

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05-10-2013, 11:59 AM
  #221
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A lot of people compared Dorsett to Prust, but he doesn't seem to be the skater or passer that Prust is. Is it because he still isn't in 100% game shape?
Dorsett is more like an Avery or Barnaby. A pure agitator who can fight and put up some dirty points.

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05-10-2013, 12:45 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Neither of those circumstances are what I want to see. I want to see a big, mean, physically intimidating team take the attack to the other team. Forechecking, hitting, fighting. All of it should be involved.

I was almost sick watching this team play without Asham earlier in the year when Rupp was dealt. Talk about a VERY soft line-up. It builds team chemistry to be able to take care of your own. Pretty much every team who does well in the playoffs can do that.
Of course. Who wouldn't want to see that?

I was replying to a post that said at least the Habs tried, this team wouldn't try. Given the reality that we're in now, I'd rather the team not pull a Habs and get completely decimated just for the sake of "trying."

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05-10-2013, 12:59 PM
  #223
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Of course. Who wouldn't want to see that?

I was replying to a post that said at least the Habs tried, this team wouldn't try. Given the reality that we're in now, I'd rather the team not pull a Habs and get completely decimated just for the sake of "trying."
I think, when healthy, with Clowe, Dorsett, Asham and Boyle all playing, they are fine up front (although to me, Pyatt and Powe could be replaced by guys who supply the same overall game + toughness; Nystrom, Torres, Larose, etc.). Sauer's presence is sorely missed on the back-end.

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05-10-2013, 01:20 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I think, when healthy, with Clowe, Dorsett, Asham and Boyle all playing, they are fine up front (although to me, Pyatt and Powe could be replaced by guys who supply the same overall game + toughness; Nystrom, Torres, Larose, etc.). Sauer's presence is sorely missed on the back-end.
Agreed. Clowe, Dorsett and Asham are all tough guys that can actually play a bit, great assets to have, especially for the playoffs. Powe I don't mind so much because he's pretty great on the PK, but Pyatt really should be replaced by someone tougher. He doesn't offer anything that a tougher player might struggle with, he's just a big guy with decent board work. Hopefully McI will make the team soon and we'll have him punishing people from the backend.

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05-12-2013, 06:08 PM
  #225
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A few posters look pretty silly right now after running here and posting how useless Dorsett is and Newbury should be in over him

Heart and Sole player, LOVE HIM! What a ****ing game he just had now that he's got the rust off.

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