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Would the Habs benefit from a Heavyweight enforcer? Part 3

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Old
05-08-2013, 09:41 AM
  #476
Sorinth
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
All is well or all is not well in Montreal?

We were physically manhandled by the Sens in this series with Neil running our skill players..........

And we could do nothing at all to stop Neil.

Did you happen to count how many elbows he threw tonight? Cross checks? He cross checked any and every Habs player that he skated by tonight.

And you are fine with that I assume?

If you are, not much else to say to you.
Bourque also hit, cross-checked, and elbowed people as much as he could. Why didn't Kassian stop him?

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05-08-2013, 09:52 AM
  #477
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
A lot of us understood that this team would have a hard time getting past the first round if we played a division rival.

The playoffs are not like the regular season, you can't accumulate wins against the (relatively) soft southeast and atlantic.

We play in the toughest division in the eastern confernece. That is reason alone to move on from the Desharnais era.
Most playoff series difficult to win. Pittsburg was supposed to steam roll the Islanders but they are tied at 2. The defending champs are also tied at 2.

If we are replacing DD with a bigger skilled guy that can play in the top-6 then great. If you want to replace him with an enforcer, then we will be worse off.

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05-08-2013, 01:50 PM
  #478
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Where exactly does it say that? Many of us have been preaching that the Habs need a heavyweight who can play 10 minutes a game.

The problem is that some people mistakenly think that enforcer = goons who can't skate.
That problem is exacerbated by the people arguing in favour of that point thinking they are on the same side of the argument as those that do want a five minute a game goon....

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05-08-2013, 02:17 PM
  #479
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I'm not even sure what the hell is going on in this thread. Title is pretty self explanatory though.

It's real simple: get a guy(let's call him player 98) who can play a regular shift and can fight like the dickens. Said player challenges Neil, who refuses to fight, then player 98 hammers Cowen and/or Methot into the glass. This results in something called pain. Pain tends to make you feel sad. It also makes players on your bench feel the opposite of sad, which is happy. Opposing team doesn't feel as happy as when it was just Neil pounding players into the ice. This is good. Opposing team might also want to reconsider player 98's formal invitation. This is also good.

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05-08-2013, 02:24 PM
  #480
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I hope Tinordi is taking good note about how Cowen and Methot are playing. That's the type of d-man work we need from him in the future.

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05-09-2013, 05:05 PM
  #481
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Originally Posted by FireBergevin View Post
I'm not even sure what the hell is going on in this thread. Title is pretty self explanatory though.

It's real simple: get a guy(let's call him player 98) who can play a regular shift and can fight like the dickens. Said player challenges Neil, who refuses to fight, then player 98 hammers Cowen and/or Methot into the glass. This results in something called pain. Pain tends to make you feel sad. It also makes players on your bench feel the opposite of sad, which is happy. Opposing team doesn't feel as happy as when it was just Neil pounding players into the ice. This is good. Opposing team might also want to reconsider player 98's formal invitation. This is also good.
Why Cowen or Methot?

Karlsson, Turris and Alfredsson are more inviting targets with bigger payoffs.

Big guy running big guy does not deliver the same result as big guy running smaller skill guy.

Because that is the approach Ottawa is taking. And it is working wonderfully.

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05-09-2013, 05:16 PM
  #482
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Give victory in Game 4 to Chris Neil.

He elbowed, slashed, cross checked and punched his way to victory.

Neil did whatever he wanted and no one could or would step in to stop it. No refs and more disturbing, no Canadiens.
Congrats Chris Neil. You are one game away from ending the Habs season and a large portion of the fanbase still will not understand why you were so effective and will still be on the "Nobody to stop You" bandwagon.
...and the refs let him. We need to send our guys out(Prust Moen White etc) after their skilled/small players. Even if you have John Scott dressed, in a playoff game Neill will keep up his antics and won't fight a guy like that. Just like Bourque doesn't fight or have to answer to Kassian(what is he doing in the lineup anyways?) after elbowing Conacher.

Yes we need a 6'4" 6'5" knuckle dragger for about 30-35 games a year against teams like Toronto as a #12 or #13 forward. By all means I hope MB signs one...Bordeleau McGrattan Orr Sestito etc Those guys don't really help you win playoff games. Orr took a dumb penality last night then sat the rest of the game. McLaren isn't playing.

In the playoffs we need more truculence from our 4th line. They had it in game 2 and Ottawa got punished and put on their ass a lot. The other games they don't seem to play much or play with an edge. We also need somebody to go after their best players like Torres or Cooke and get them off their game.

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05-09-2013, 05:20 PM
  #483
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Originally Posted by FireBergevin View Post
I'm not even sure what the hell is going on in this thread. Title is pretty self explanatory though.

It's real simple: get a guy(let's call him player 98) who can play a regular shift and can fight like the dickens. Said player challenges Neil, who refuses to fight, then player 98 hammers Cowen and/or Methot into the glass. This results in something called pain. Pain tends to make you feel sad. It also makes players on your bench feel the opposite of sad, which is happy. Opposing team doesn't feel as happy as when it was just Neil pounding players into the ice. This is good. Opposing team might also want to reconsider player 98's formal invitation. This is also good.
I know what you're saying but unless you can sign a bigger version of Prust. The every day enforcer has a hard time keeping up with the pace in the playoffs. If you have Orr or Bordeleau on the ice against high end players you're litterally giving the opposition a PP.

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05-09-2013, 09:24 PM
  #484
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Kassian with 2 assists tonight.

****ing goons are useless in the playoffs.

Bryan Murray out GMed Marc Bergevin.

Maclean outcoached Therrien.

Senators outmuscled the Habs.


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05-09-2013, 09:28 PM
  #485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Kassian with 2 assists tonight.

****ing goons are useless in the playoffs.

Bryan Murray out GMed Marc Bergevin.

Maclean outcoached Therrien.

Senators outmuscled the Habs.

You never fail to disappoint.

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05-09-2013, 09:41 PM
  #486
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Paul Mclean said it best: The physical element that his team brings gave us the edge against us in this series.

So, you guyz are still blind?

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05-09-2013, 10:00 PM
  #487
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YES. They have to get bigger and tougher and no Lindsay Vallis, Brent Bilodeau, Brad Brown, Eric Charron, Terry Ryan, Jason Ward, Eric Chouinard. Big tough with some actual hockey sense/ability.

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05-09-2013, 10:03 PM
  #488
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
You never fail to disappoint.
Reality sucks, doesnt it? A lot of "non-enforcer" arguments were blown away in this series.

All I read all season long is that we dont need to waste a roster spot for an enforcer like Kassian or Bordeleau or anyone else.

And Kassian proved all of that to be nothing more than babbling.

Kassian did not HURT the Sens at all. Not a bit. He was a +1. He had 14 hits. He had a good fight. He played his role to perfection. And for dessert, he had two assists.

But he was a physical presence for the 4 games that he played. Karlsson was not even hit more than once or twice per game after the line brawl. No one retaliated against Gryba. He did his job.......and he was not a detriment to the Senators.

So yeah, Murray got Kassian for free and Kassian played his role well. Win to Murray.

After game one, Maclean dressed Kassian and turned him loose and ended up getting rent free access to Therrien's head for the rest of the series. Win to Maclean.

And finally, Kassian and the rest of the Senators pounded the **** out of our undersized team who did not have an answer to Kassian and Neil doing whatever they wanted to our skill players. We know who got the win tonight.

The big question that remains is if Bergevin closes his eyes and continues to take the position of the anti-enforcer crowd. Or, will he accept reality and get a Kassian type player on this team.

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05-09-2013, 10:03 PM
  #489
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
You never fail to disappoint.
You too. You're always waiting for a pro-goon comment to say they're wrong. There's no debate anymore, it's been too obvious all season long that we need somebody.

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05-09-2013, 10:06 PM
  #490
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Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
Paul Mclean said it best: The physical element that his team brings gave us the edge against us in this series.

So, you guyz are still blind?
Blind about what ? We need to be bigger and tougher ? Obviously ! Get a useless player ? Nah.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
You never fail to disappoint.
You didn't know ? We lost because they have Kassian ! I don't know if it's funny or sad.

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05-09-2013, 10:11 PM
  #491
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Originally Posted by ccgg View Post
Blind about what ? We need to be bigger and tougher ? Obviously ! Get a useless player ? Nah.




You didn't know ? We lost because they have Kassian ! I don't know if it's funny or sad.
Congrats. I am trying to figure out (what I bolded) if what you said is more of a strawman or just straight bull ****.

I will just call it straw ****.

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05-09-2013, 10:14 PM
  #492
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Originally Posted by ccgg View Post
You didn't know ? We lost because they have Kassian ! I don't know if it's funny or sad.
Not at all what he said. He said Kassian was played and wasnt a liability. The role of the enforcer is not what it was 20 years ago, but it is also not as obsolete as some make it out to be. Maybe in ten years, the game will have changed even more, but for now....

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05-09-2013, 10:30 PM
  #493
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Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
Paul Mclean said it best: The physical element that his team brings gave us the edge against us in this series.

So, you guyz are still blind?
Many folks here probably understand how NHL hockey is played better than the walrus.

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05-09-2013, 11:35 PM
  #494
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Congrats. I am trying to figure out (what I bolded) if what you said is more of a strawman or just straight bull ****.

I will just call it straw ****.
You just wrote a eulogy to Ottawa's win that included the word 'Kassian' eight times and named three other Sens players once each.

Can't really be surprised if people 'misunderstand' and think you're implying that Kassian was one of the most important players involved...

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05-10-2013, 07:09 AM
  #495
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Originally Posted by Corncob View Post
You just wrote a eulogy to Ottawa's win that included the word 'Kassian' eight times and named three other Sens players once each.

Can't really be surprised if people 'misunderstand' and think you're implying that Kassian was one of the most important players involved...
He is responding in a thread about the value of a heavyweight enforcer, so, it is natural that he mentions Ottawa's enforcer rather than the other players on the team.

I don't see where he implies that Kassian was one of the most important players, he clearly says that Kassian didn't hurt the Sens because he was used effectively by the Sens. Nobody needs to misunderstand his point unless they choose to; what he said is clear enough.

Guys like Clarkson. Lucic, Clowe etc. in their prime are not readily available & if available at all come at a significant cost. The only way to get them at a reasonable cost is to take a chance on potential on draft day & try to develop someone; something the Habs have been reluctant to do recently. In the interim, I'm fine with a legitimate heavyweight, if, and it's a big if, the coach uses him properly and the player understands his role clearly.

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05-10-2013, 09:15 AM
  #496
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
You never fail to disappoint.

like you

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05-10-2013, 09:22 AM
  #497
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Originally Posted by Carbo N8 View Post
He is responding in a thread about the value of a heavyweight enforcer, so, it is natural that he mentions Ottawa's enforcer rather than the other players on the team.

I don't see where he implies that Kassian was one of the most important players, he clearly says that Kassian didn't hurt the Sens because he was used effectively by the Sens. Nobody needs to misunderstand his point unless they choose to; what he said is clear enough.

Guys like Clarkson. Lucic, Clowe etc. in their prime are not readily available & if available at all come at a significant cost. The only way to get them at a reasonable cost is to take a chance on potential on draft day & try to develop someone; something the Habs have been reluctant to do recently. In the interim, I'm fine with a legitimate heavyweight, if, and it's a big if, the coach uses him properly and the player understands his role clearly.
So we need a guy who at best doesn't hurt us and contributes a small amount.

Honest question, if we had Kassian and Ottawa had Armstrong, how many think we would've won the series?

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05-10-2013, 09:26 AM
  #498
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Kassian with 2 assists tonight.

****ing goons are useless in the playoffs.

Bryan Murray out GMed Marc Bergevin.

Maclean outcoached Therrien.

Senators outmuscled the Habs.

and yet, second year now Sens dont make a single deadline acquisition.

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05-10-2013, 09:56 AM
  #499
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I know what you're saying but unless you can sign a bigger version of Prust. The every day enforcer has a hard time keeping up with the pace in the playoffs. If you have Orr or Bordeleau on the ice against high end players you're litterally giving the opposition a PP.
Bordeleau is a much better hockey player than Orr. Reaves & Boll are better still.

These guys are out there. Just have to make sure they don't get caught against the top line.

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05-10-2013, 11:04 AM
  #500
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Kassian with 2 assists tonight.

****ing goons are useless in the playoffs.

Bryan Murray out GMed Marc Bergevin.

Maclean outcoached Therrien.

Senators outmuscled the Habs.

Bryan Murray must be the best GM in the NHL cause he out GMed 29 other GM's in acquiring Kassian who went thru waivers and NO ONE bothered to claim him.

Dont get me wrong I wanted MB to claim him but don't forget MB had a claim in for Sesito but VAN was lower in standings and claimed him. So it is not like he isn't trying to get these type players but they really need to be able to play more than 2 minutes a game.

I am all for getting a 13th forward like a Bordeleau/Sesito that is used when needed but we need to find one or two physical forwards for bottom 6 that aren't worn out already...that is why I worry about Clowe / Regher types.

Maybe the answer is in the AHL with young guys like Beach etc that would cherish that role.Even Schultz if he could get himself in shape.

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