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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

May 9 • Slovakia 3, Latvia 5

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05-10-2013, 06:38 AM
  #76
begbeee
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Originally Posted by Namejs View Post
Slovaks were not dominant in the first period. The game was very close, with chances on both ends. We were dominating physically throughout the game.

No one here has implied that Latvia is on the same level as Slovakia. So great straw-man there. What I said was that Slovakia has dropped in the rankings and is roughly on the same level as Switzerland now. Switzerland is progressing, Slovakia is regressing. Latvia is a level below both Switzerland and Slovakia, just like Denmark or Norway, for example. Latvia has been pretty stagnant for the last 20 years.

The difference between Switzerland and Slovakia is that the Swiss are humble and weren't confident about getting a QF berth after their first couple of wins, while Slovakia expects to steamroll everyone who's lower in the rankings and can't cope with a loss, rationalizing it with incompetent refereeing and luck.
I listen about Switzerland progress 15 years since 1998. And you know what? Slovakia WC record since 1998 is 1-2-1 and 4th on Olympics, with some decent results in U18 and U20 here and there.
Tell me more about the same level, please

In fact, there is Big7, like it or not. Slovaks were ranked 5th before championship, not even the last place from Big7, altough I agree in fact we are the weakest member. But there is still a difference between next level countries and Slovaks.

Congrats to your win, but let's not pretend like Latvia is going to medal and Slovaks is going to be relegated. This would be bad season WC for us at worst, Latvia can still very easily play in 1. division next year.

EDIT: If you really want to speak about nations which made a strong progress in hockey, speak about Danemark. Not Latvia (getting worse), Switzerland (always the same).

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05-10-2013, 06:57 AM
  #77
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Well Z was angry for that brutal boarding and went after Mezei and gave him a tap with a stick, so it's natural that people with Slovakian monocles sees a spearing there.
yeah it's ok to attack player after the ref call.... maybe next time we play each other we should "tap with a stick" all Latvian players on every interruptions

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LOL.

Where's the video?

Anyone can quote the rulebook.
I tought that if your remember how Latvian team deserved to win, you will remember all key moments.. but ok when I will find it I will post it here..

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05-10-2013, 07:10 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonCorleone View Post
yeah it's ok to attack player after the ref call.... maybe next time we play each other we should "tap with a stick" all Latvian players on every interruptions



I tought that if your remember how Latvian team deserved to win, you will remember all key moments.. but ok when I will find it I will post it here..
Hopefully it works in Slovakia. 40:50 in the video

http://www.tv3play.lv/play/309973/?autostart=true


It was more of an butt-ending than a spear, but damn, that boarding is humongous. Should I post a chunk of IIHF rulebook saying that boarding can draw 5+20 as well?

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05-10-2013, 07:26 AM
  #79
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It was more of an butt-ending than a spear, but damn, that boarding is humongous. Should I post a chunk of IIHF rulebook saying that boarding can draw 5+20 as well?
your link is not working outside Latvia, but thank you, maybe Namejs can see it..

If both players get major penalties, it's only 2 min powerplay 4 on 3 for Latvia.. after this call, we played 5:3 and then almost 2 mins and 5:4.. difference, dont you mean?

And.. ehm If we talk about boarding, what about hit on Daloga, before fourth goal? That was ok? I dont know, but it looks pretty similar to Mezei's hit (faul).

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05-10-2013, 07:36 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by DonCorleone View Post
your link is not working outside Latvia, but thank you, maybe Namejs can see it..

It is still big difference. If both players get major penalties.. we played 5:3 after that penalty almost 2 mins and 5:4 another 2 mins.

And.. ehm If we talk about boarding, what about hit on Daloga, before fourth goal? That was ok? I dont know, but it looks pretty similar to Mezei's hit (faul).
I understand your frustration, and I, of course, agree that it is a huge difference being down extra men. If we follow the rules pedantically, then it's easily a penalty on Girgensons for retaliation, but as always, context matters.

Sorry dude, but not even close the same case with hit on Daloga. Mezei basically rammed Girgensons in boards, but Kenins and Daloga both were tangled together all the the way to the boards. As where Girgensons could of had his neck broken on the play, Daloga seemingly awkwardly pressed his stick arm between himself and boards. Unfortunate injury, but hardly a malicious play.

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05-10-2013, 08:11 AM
  #81
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I understand your frustration, and I, of course, agree that it is a huge difference being down extra men. If we follow the rules pedantically, then it's easily a penalty on Girgensons for retaliation, but as always, context matters.
Spearing is very dangerous that's why it is automatic major penalty and game misconduct! And if he do it after ref call, you can't say it always matters on context. It is totally unacceptable.

This was one of the key moments, but ok it's over...

Hopefully today game will be better..

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05-10-2013, 08:22 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by DonCorleone View Post
Spearing is very dangerous that's why it is automatic major penalty and game misconduct! And if he do it after ref call, you can't say it always matters on context. It is totally unacceptable.

This was one of the key moments, but ok it's over...

Hopefully today game will be better..
Not that it matters nor am I trying to defend our player but the hit Mezei definitely deserved a PK for his team, so the small retaliation butt-ending was overlooked.

For better or worse, but context absolutely matters, if not every scrum after the whistle when goalie freezes the puck, would end with in multiple penalties for roughing and holding for both teams.

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05-10-2013, 08:57 AM
  #83
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Why are Slovak fans so upset, it's not like your team is facing relegation. You'll probably make it to the next stage, while our NT's future in the elite is uncertain. Calm down, ffs!

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05-10-2013, 08:59 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Like Wall View Post
Why are Slovak fans so upset, it's not like your team is facing relegation. You'll probably make it to the next stage, while our NT's future in the elite is uncertain. Calm down, ffs!
That's actually questionable. And probably not only in our team's hands anymore after French result yesterday.

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05-10-2013, 09:00 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by DonCorleone View Post
Spearing is very dangerous that's why it is automatic major penalty and game misconduct! And if he do it after ref call, you can't say it always matters on context. It is totally unacceptable.

This was one of the key moments, but ok it's over...

Hopefully today game will be better..
In the end IIHF agrees with both of us and bans Zemgus for one game. Agrees with you that it was a dangerous play and with me that it was a butt-end penalty not a spear.

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05-10-2013, 09:03 AM
  #86
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Why are Slovak fans so upset, it's not like your team is facing relegation.
read the thread carefully one more time and you will find out why.

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while our NT's future in the elite is uncertain.
I don't think so.. I think Latvia should stay in elite..

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05-10-2013, 09:07 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by DonCorleone View Post
read the thread carefully one more time and you will find out why.


I don't think so.. I think Latvia should stay in elite..
you thinking it doesn't make it happen and they're still i grave danger of relegation...

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05-10-2013, 09:59 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by begbeee View Post
I listen about Switzerland progress 15 years since 1998. And you know what? Slovakia WC record since 1998 is 1-2-1 and 4th on Olympics, with some decent results in U18 and U20 here and there.
Tell me more about the same level, please
Why are you talking about 1998? There's been a complete shift of a generation in 15 years. I'm talking about the here and now. Slovakia is slowly becoming a 2nd tier hockey nation.

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In fact, there is Big7, like it or not. Slovaks were ranked 5th before championship, not even the last place from Big7, altough I agree in fact we are the weakest member. But there is still a difference between next level countries and Slovaks.
Nope.

Quote:
Congrats to your win, but let's not pretend like Latvia is going to medal and Slovaks is going to be relegated. This would be bad season WC for us at worst, Latvia can still very easily play in 1. division next year.
Who's pretending that Latvia is a medal candidate? Are there some literacy problems in Slovakia or something? Also - Slovakia can easily play in Division I next year as well. 1-1 vs Austria after the 2nd period. You concede another goal, most likely you'll need to get points against USA and Russia in order to stay up.

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If you really want to speak about nations which made a strong progress in hockey, speak about Danemark. Not Latvia (getting worse), Switzerland (always the same).
As evidenced by what exactly? Denmark has become a decent 2nd tier hockey nation, sure. Switzerland is steadily progressing. Their domestic hockey system is now clearly much better developed than their Slovakian counterpart. Slovaks are running on fumes. Give it another 5 years and I guarantee that the Swiss will be above you in the rankings. Your last year's miracle silver is distorting the whole picture atm.

How is Latvia getting worse though? Our ranking fluctuates around the exact same place for 17(!) years now. Some teams have become slightly better or very similar to us (Germany, Norway), but some teams have also become worse (Belarus, Ukraine, Austria). Maybe you're just not old enough to remember Ukraine playing among the big guys.

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05-10-2013, 03:20 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Namejs View Post
How is Latvia getting worse though? Our ranking fluctuates around the exact same place for 17(!) years now. Some teams have become slightly better or very similar to us (Germany, Norway), but some teams have also become worse (Belarus, Ukraine, Austria). Maybe you're just not old enough to remember Ukraine playing among the big guys.
Maybe not much worse, but the question is - are we getting better? Maybe we are too late for that, maybe the wake-up call came far too late? Our situation can be described as stagnation. Austria is clearly progressing, at least in this tournament as a team. Belarus is almost like us, but they are "luckier" and they usually show a decent opposition to all mighty teams. I don't think Slovakia is in any danger of losing their title as a hockey superpower, not in the near future.

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05-10-2013, 04:32 PM
  #90
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Maybe not much worse, but the question is - are we getting better? Maybe we are too late for that, maybe the wake-up call came far too late? Our situation can be described as stagnation. Austria is clearly progressing, at least in this tournament as a team. Belarus is almost like us, but they are "luckier" and they usually show a decent opposition to all mighty teams. I don't think Slovakia is in any danger of losing their title as a hockey superpower, not in the near future.
I'm talking in the context of the last 2 decades. Austria used to be pretty good. Ukraine was good as well.

As for Slovakia, I do not agree. Do you know how many draftees they had last year? Zero. Even Latvia had 2. The last time they had a 1st round pick (2) was 8 years ago and neither of them made their way to the NHL.

Their junior teams are barely staying up in the top division each year and constantly losing to Switzerland + usually having very close matches with teams like Germany and Latvia. That's not to mention the blowout losses against the top teams. Sounds familiar?

Slovakia has 10 or 11 NHL players and 6 of them are >30 yo.

Their domestic league is regressing, the budgets are becoming smaller, as is the attendance. They're now behind the KHL, Elitserien, Czech Extraliga, NLA, SM-liiga, DEL, EBEL and probably going to fall behind even the VHL and Allsvenskan in the near future.

Also - Slovan was sucked into a black hole called the KHL, which is a clear sign of impending death.

All in all, Slovakian hockey is most definitely regressing.

And, once again, I'm in no way implying that Slovakia is going to be on the same level as Latvia early next morning, I'm saying that there is no big 7 anymore. It's pretty much a big 6 now with Switzerland and Germany in the chasing pack and Slovakia slowly falling behind the group.

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05-10-2013, 07:43 PM
  #91
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^^^
You know, It's only a matter of time, when Slovakia will be back on track. The situation is pretty much similar here in Czech republic. But I'm telling you, there is next strong generation which will come in upcoming years.

Don't think it's all over despite current situation at Slovakia or Czech republic. It is a overly visionary statement in this prediction regarding Slovakian hockey.

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05-11-2013, 02:02 AM
  #92
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Maybe not much worse, but the question is - are we getting better? Maybe we are too late for that, maybe the wake-up call came far too late? Our situation can be described as stagnation. Austria is clearly progressing, at least in this tournament as a team. Belarus is almost like us, but they are "luckier" and they usually show a decent opposition to all mighty teams. I don't think Slovakia is in any danger of losing their title as a hockey superpower, not in the near future.
We have never had this much good junior prospects since the independence in 1991. Everything should be fine in the future for us.

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05-11-2013, 04:11 AM
  #93
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^^^
You know, It's only a matter of time, when Slovakia will be back on track. The situation is pretty much similar here in Czech republic. But I'm telling you, there is next strong generation which will come in upcoming years.

Don't think it's all over despite current situation at Slovakia or Czech republic. It is a overly visionary statement in this prediction regarding Slovakian hockey.
Yes, the situation in Czech Republic is a little similar, but it's not NEARLY as bad as in Slovakia.

I mean, Czech republic isn't as strong as it used to be, but the level of organization domestically is much better, the number of junior players and the talent coming out of Czech rep. is substantially larger. The presence in NHL is still strong.

And it's not all about junior teams either, it's about getting enough talent each year to form a competitive national team and that's the main difference between you and the Slovaks. I don't see the next generation of Slovakians. Where are they?

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05-11-2013, 04:21 AM
  #94
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Yes, the situation in Czech Republic is a little similar, but it's not NEARLY as bad as in Slovakia.

I mean, Czech republic isn't as strong as it used to be, but the level of organization domestically is much better, the number of junior players and the talent coming out of Czech rep. is substantially larger. The presence in NHL is still strong.

And it's not all about junior teams either, it's about getting enough talent each year to form a competitive national team and that's the main difference between you and the Slovaks. I don't see the next generation of Slovakians. Where are they?
Dano,Janus aaand theres that guy who was called the slovakian Crosby,cant remember the name.

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05-11-2013, 04:32 AM
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Dano,Janus aaand theres that guy who was called the slovakian Crosby,cant remember the name.
Is that it? Even we have more prospects than that.

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05-11-2013, 04:33 AM
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Is that it? Even we have more prospects than that.
Theres probably more cant remmember of the top of my head.

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05-11-2013, 04:40 AM
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Do you mean Patrik Koyš?
I'm not familiar with Latvian prospects but it's quite easy to name you few from Slovakia. Just need your definition of prospect (birthday).

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05-11-2013, 04:42 AM
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Do you mean Patrik Koyš?
I'm not familiar with Latvian prospects but it's quite easy to name you few from Slovakia. Just need your definition of prospect (birthday).
Yes,but it looks like he didnt live to the expectations now did he? for me a prospect is anyone from 1994-onwards.

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05-11-2013, 04:46 AM
  #99
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Is that it? Even we have more prospects than that.
There's Tatar and Pánik who both got a number of games in the NHL this year and chanes are they will get a full season there as well. Both of them would be likely playing this tourney if they weren't in the AHL play-offs. Same for Martin Marinčin who's our top D prospects. Tomáš Jurčo struggled a bit at the beginning, but he's found his own in the AHL play-offs. Asides fom Daňo, there was another Slovak youngster holding his own in a top European league this year 17 year old Peter Cehlárik in Sweden. In goal asides from Janus, there's also Hudáček who was pretty good in SEL and it will be interesting to see what he does in the KHL next year. Our top forward this tourney is easily Záborský, who's just 25 and still has a lot of years in the NT left in him. Then there are Marek Tvrdoň, Martin Gernát and Marek Hrivík who have all enjoyed good careers in North America, but all got their season cut short due to injuries. Also fortgo Martin Reway. And of course there are some younger prospects, but it's too early to talk about them, but maybe just metion D Erik Černák who was the youngest player at the U18s and got anmed one of the top 3 players on the team. Just a few on the top of my head. But obviously you know better what you're talking about than I...

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05-11-2013, 04:48 AM
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There's Tatar and Pánik who both got a number of games in the NHL this year and chanes are they will get a full season there as well. Both of them would be likely playing this tourney if they weren't in the AHL play-offs. Same for Martin Marinčin who's our top D prospects. Tomáš Jurčo struggled a bit at the beginning, but he's found his own in the AHL play-offs. Asides fom Daňo, there was another Slovak youngster holding his own in a top European league this year 17 year old Peter Cehlárik in Sweden. In goal asides from Janus, there's also Hudáček who was pretty good in SEL and it will be interesting to see what he does in the KHL next year. Our top forward this tourney is easily Záborský, who's just 25 and still has a lot of years in the NT left in him. Then there are Marek Tvrdoň, Martin Gernát and Marek Hrivík who have all enjoyed good careers in North America, but all got their season cut short due to injuries. Also fortgo Martin Reway. And of course there are some younger prospects, but it's too early to talk about them, but maybe just metion D Erik Černák who was the youngest player at the U18s and got anmed one of the top 3 players on the team. Just a few on the top of my head. But obviously you know better what you're talking about than I...
I`d say you still develop good prospects but you guys are just slightly above Latvia and Denmark.

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