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05-10-2013, 05:07 AM
  #51
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It was inevitable - Tyler's turn in the barrel now that Boston's fans can't complain about DK. Let's see 20 pucks and a half dozen used sticks sounds about right...

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05-10-2013, 05:49 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeddarRants View Post
I don't understand some of the comments here in this thread. Shield the puck with his body? Curl and wait at the blueline? Slow down? Come on. Seguin does not have the body,balance, or strength of Jagr. His game is based on speed, shooting, and playing a skilled game. His offensive IQ is very high and his defensive side is getting better year after year. We need to let him develop his game. He's not a dump and chase grinder; he's a puck possession winger/center.

For years, we've been wanting a guy with speed who can shoot and selfish enough TO shoot instead of looking to make another pretty pass. Kessel brought that element here for awhile before he cashed out and left/got traded. Now Seguin is here and brings similar attributes, but is doing it better at a younger age. I say don't change his offensive game... he just needs to keep skating hard and letting it rip. His skillset is just too immense to remain stagnant in the production sheet.

BTW, Seguin is the best backchecker on the team, hands down.

/Thread.

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05-10-2013, 06:33 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeddarRants View Post
I don't understand some of the comments here in this thread. Shield the puck with his body? Curl and wait at the blueline? Slow down? Come on. Seguin does not have the body,balance, or strength of Jagr. His game is based on speed, shooting, and playing a skilled game. His offensive IQ is very high and his defensive side is getting better year after year. We need to let him develop his game. He's not a dump and chase grinder; he's a puck possession winger/center.

For years, we've been wanting a guy with speed who can shoot and selfish enough TO shoot instead of looking to make another pretty pass. Kessel brought that element here for awhile before he cashed out and left/got traded. Now Seguin is here and brings similar attributes, but is doing it better at a younger age. I say don't change his offensive game... he just needs to keep skating hard and letting it rip. His skillset is just too immense to remain stagnant in the production sheet.

BTW, Seguin is the best backchecker on the team, hands down.
This is my issue with Seguin. While in juniors he was on a bad team and his skating and hands were otherworldly at that level so he was forced to go end to end through an entire team. He still can't figure out how to use the assets he has at this level. I will give him a break this year because I'm sure playing lesser competition on a bigger sheet of ice in the Swiss league brought back some of those bad habits he shed his sophomore year.

Seguin needs to use his speed to the outside more. He's been trying to split the D all year and at this level he needs to learn that's a move you need to set up by driving the puck wide. He has the speed and hands to make things happen but he keeps on coughing up the puck and is forced into being the best backchecker because he's made a bad turnover and Claude has a place for people who do that and don't backcheck.

He'll be a great player in this league but right now he has a lot of bad habits I'm fine with people calling him out for. His best stretch of games where the first 20 he played last year were he had something like 12g and 10a to start the season. He was physically engaged in those games, he used his linemates better and he utilized his speed as a weapon. When he puts it all together he will start to realize the rest of his game and the points fall in place.

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Old
05-10-2013, 06:57 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
So has Marchands, and Phil Kessel has looked like one of the most dangerous offensive threats on the ice... because he is.

Kessel is a good example to hold up before getting on Seguin. He was run out of town because his lack of a complete game, propensity to use one drag and curl move, and a raw skillset offensively that people mistook for a finished product. Now you see what that matures into. Seguin is not the offensive player Kessel is now, but he's better then Kessel was at the same age and has a far more complete game.

The issue with Seguin is people expecting him to carry the Bruins offensively. He's been engaged, he's worked defensively and is really the only one on that line getting any type of chances 5 on 5. Marchand has been completely ineffective as Phaneuf and Gunnarsson are able to just throw him off the puck when he starts his cycle game and Bergeron hasn't looked right offensively since coming back from the latest concussion.

Add to that he has been key part to at least two goals (one being called back).

All that said, the Bergeron line is being shutdown by the Leafs top pairing... but on the flip side that has pitted the Krejci line against Franson and Fraser... one of who at this time last year was in the AHL and the other who was fighting for a 3rd pairing spot.
Nice post.

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05-10-2013, 08:19 AM
  #55
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Marchand-Bergeron-Jagr
Peverely-Kelly-Seguin

try it for 2 shifts per line. Get a feel. A fast line for the Seguin line (him and Peverely would be so turbo), and we know Jagr and Marchy have chemistry.

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05-10-2013, 08:54 AM
  #56
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I don't think its anything Seguin can't overcome. He is getting glorious chances to score, he just can't finish. The fact that he is getting these chances says a lot, thats the hard part. Finishing them is easy once he gets over the hump. His psyche is not strong yet, he not a jedi yet. If we make it to next round, I bet we'll see this line get it going!!

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05-10-2013, 08:56 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedeyeRocketeer View Post
Marchand-Bergeron-Jagr
Peverely-Kelly-Seguin

try it for 2 shifts per line. Get a feel. A fast line for the Seguin line (him and Peverely would be so turbo), and we know Jagr and Marchy have chemistry.
Don't think changing line will do anything. He isn't gonna get better chances on that line than he is already getting.

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05-10-2013, 10:17 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Shoebottom View Post
Don't think changing line will do anything. He isn't gonna get better chances on that line than he is already getting.
Why wouldn't he? He'd no longer be going up against the Leafs top pairing, instead facing guys like Gardiner and O'Byrne.

Seguin would eat those guys alive with his speed and skill. It would also be ridiculously solid defensively... only concern would be lack of size but that's something that already plagues the Bergeron line.

And Jagr with Marchand and Bergeron would give the Leafs top pairing absolute fits (although I'd be surprised if the top pairing isn't matched up against the Krejci line next game).

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05-10-2013, 10:23 AM
  #59
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Tyler had really good games in the first of this series he unfortunately was unable to finish. I think he hit three posts? After that he disappeared. But the whole line has been invisible except for a goal by Bergy on PP. You never know assuming we finish out the leafs the next series Tyler could be the one with the hot hands.

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05-10-2013, 10:39 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeddarRants View Post
I don't understand some of the comments here in this thread. Shield the puck with his body? Curl and wait at the blueline? Slow down? Come on. Seguin does not have the body,balance, or strength of Jagr. His game is based on speed, shooting, and playing a skilled game. His offensive IQ is very high and his defensive side is getting better year after year. We need to let him develop his game. He's not a dump and chase grinder; he's a puck possession winger/center.

For years, we've been wanting a guy with speed who can shoot and selfish enough TO shoot instead of looking to make another pretty pass. Kessel brought that element here for awhile before he cashed out and left/got traded. Now Seguin is here and brings similar attributes, but is doing it better at a younger age. I say don't change his offensive game... he just needs to keep skating hard and letting it rip. His skillset is just too immense to remain stagnant in the production sheet.

BTW, Seguin is the best backchecker on the team, hands down.
Phil Kessel scored 36 goals (in 70 games) and was at .86 PPG in his third full season. Prorated over 82 games Seguin would have scored 27 goals this year and averaged .67 PPG in his third season.

The phrase "now Seguin is here and brings similar attributes, but is doing it better at a younger age" is simply inaccurate.

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05-10-2013, 10:45 AM
  #61
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Keep the lines as they are. The Krejci line is ROLLING.

Toronto is using their top "defensive" line on Bergeron's line. My guess is they have to stop matching up solely on that line and put some focus on Krejci's line. I'm hoping tonight we see Seguin AND Marchand get it going a bit.

The third and fourth lines are doing their thing. The only change I would make is Soderberg, maybe, in for plexiglass Peverley. Maybe.

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05-10-2013, 11:00 AM
  #62
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Switch Kelly and Seguin.. see what happens.

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05-10-2013, 11:02 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedeyeRocketeer View Post
Marchand-Bergeron-Jagr
Peverely-Kelly-Seguin

try it for 2 shifts per line. Get a feel. A fast line for the Seguin line (him and Peverely would be so turbo), and we know Jagr and Marchy have chemistry.
been thinking this all series... only reason i can IMAGINE is that jagr doesnt have the legs for 2nd line minutes

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05-10-2013, 11:29 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reidy View Post
Phil Kessel scored 36 goals (in 70 games) and was at .86 PPG in his third full season. Prorated over 82 games Seguin would have scored 27 goals this year and averaged .67 PPG in his third season.

The phrase "now Seguin is here and brings similar attributes, but is doing it better at a younger age" is simply inaccurate.
And he had 67 points in his 2nd full season compared to Kessel's 37 points in his 2nd full season. What do you think you're proving with that statement?

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05-10-2013, 11:31 AM
  #65
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I blame Patrick Kane, the Spengler Cup, and Swiss hookah bars..

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05-10-2013, 11:33 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
Why wouldn't he? He'd no longer be going up against the Leafs top pairing, instead facing guys like Gardiner and O'Byrne.

Seguin would eat those guys alive with his speed and skill. It would also be ridiculously solid defensively... only concern would be lack of size but that's something that already plagues the Bergeron line.

And Jagr with Marchand and Bergeron would give the Leafs top pairing absolute fits (although I'd be surprised if the top pairing isn't matched up against the Krejci line next game).
Its not a matter of generating chances. Seguin has 2 or more gimmie chances a game in these series. He just can't finish for whatever reason. Not sure if playing on a different line would help him finish some of his great chances. I mean its him vs the goalie, mono a mono, Phanuef is a non factor in these situations. He just has to break through and capitalize on them. I bet next round, if we make it out of this one, he'll break out.

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05-10-2013, 11:38 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeddarRants View Post
I don't understand some of the comments here in this thread. Shield the puck with his body? Curl and wait at the blueline? Slow down? Come on. Seguin does not have the body,balance, or strength of Jagr. His game is based on speed, shooting, and playing a skilled game. His offensive IQ is very high and his defensive side is getting better year after year. We need to let him develop his game. He's not a dump and chase grinder; he's a puck possession winger/center.

For years, we've been wanting a guy with speed who can shoot and selfish enough TO shoot instead of looking to make another pretty pass. Kessel brought that element here for awhile before he cashed out and left/got traded. Now Seguin is here and brings similar attributes, but is doing it better at a younger age. I say don't change his offensive game... he just needs to keep skating hard and letting it rip. His skillset is just too immense to remain stagnant in the production sheet.

BTW, Seguin is the best backchecker on the team, hands down.
I agree with much of this, but disagree with the bolded. Seguin has shown no natural tendency to play a puck possession game. He might have the skill to play that sort of game, but he gets rid of the puck way too quickly either by taking a low percentage shot or by skating the puck right into coverage (I swear he does this about 90% of the time). Another thing that bothers me about him is his play without the puck in the offensive zone. I understand that he's trying to get open for a shot and I think he does that well, but he is not great at getting to loose pucks. When I watch him play I'm often reminded of a moment in the Rags/Flyers HBO 24/7 last year when Torts was yelling at Gaborik on the bench something to the effect of "WOULD YOU PLEASE STOP ON ONE ****** PUCK". Seguin is very much guilty of the same offense -- he'll spot a rebound, use his speed to be first on the puck, maybe get a shot on goal but then fly by the net/puck instead of pouncing on the puck and STOPPING to try and hammer it in until the goalie controls it. It is infuriating to watch him do that sometimes. He'd probably have 10 more goals this year if he fixed that about his game.

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05-10-2013, 11:39 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussellmaniaKW View Post
And he had 67 points in his 2nd full season compared to Kessel's 37 points in his 2nd full season. What do you think you're proving with that statement?
Um, I'm factually refuting the statement that "now (Seguin) is doing it better at a younger age" when "right now" (i.e. this season) he isn't.

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05-10-2013, 11:47 AM
  #69
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To say i'm disappointed in the way he is playing so far would be an understatement.

(1) He thinks he can go 5 vs 3 when he brings the puck across the neutral zone to the attacking zone and tries to deke every defender who tries to poke check him. Maybe it's about time he realizes that hockey is a 5 vs 5 game and start looking to pass to his teammates .

(2) Scoring: What happened to his scoring ability. It has disappeared all of a sudden and it seems like he forgot how to be a goal scorer. No play vision what so ever. Phil kessel has looked like a better play this series and i feel dirty saying it. For whatever reason Tyler seguin refuses to go to the dirty areas being the boards, around the net area/ crashing the net etc.

he only looked bad in game 4... he has created and had lots of scoring chances. just hasnt capitalized.... but the last game he looked awefullllll

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05-10-2013, 11:48 AM
  #70
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I like what veddar is getting at, but Seguin still needs to slow down. Not all the time of course, but he needs to learn that going full speed all the time hurts more than it helps.

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05-10-2013, 11:54 AM
  #71
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Um, I'm factually refuting the statement that "now (Seguin) is doing it better at a younger age" when "right now" (i.e. this season) he isn't.
except referring to just this season is cherry picking. Seguin has done better than Kessel at a younger age. His career numbers at the same age are better than Kessel's. Seguin at this point has .59 points per game in the regular season to Kessel's .56 at the same age (and more games played due to not having a shortened season). So better offensive production over the same years of development and I don't think anyone in the world would argue that Seguin is not a much better defensive player than Kessel was at the same age.

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05-10-2013, 12:16 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussellmaniaKW View Post
except referring to just this season is cherry picking. Seguin has done better than Kessel at a younger age. His career numbers at the same age are better than Kessel's. Seguin at this point has .59 points per game in the regular season to Kessel's .56 at the same age (and more games played due to not having a shortened season). So better offensive production over the same years of development and I don't think anyone in the world would argue that Seguin is not a much better defensive player than Kessel was at the same age.
I'm not arguing who the better player is or is going to be (for the record, I'd still take Seguin), I was simply refuting the inaccurate claim that right now Seguin "is doing it (presumably scoring, as neither one will ever be confused with Bob Gainey) better" than Kessel at the same age. "Right now," he isn't. End of story.

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05-10-2013, 12:22 PM
  #73
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Prediction for tonight Seguin 1 goal 1 assist.

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05-10-2013, 12:31 PM
  #74
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I think he scores tonight, as well

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05-10-2013, 12:37 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by RussellmaniaKW View Post
except referring to just this season is cherry picking. Seguin has done better than Kessel at a younger age. His career numbers at the same age are better than Kessel's. Seguin at this point has .59 points per game in the regular season to Kessel's .56 at the same age (and more games played due to not having a shortened season). So better offensive production over the same years of development and I don't think anyone in the world would argue that Seguin is not a much better defensive player than Kessel was at the same age.
Exactly. Similar production at this point in their careers and Seguin is by far the better two way player. I've never seen Kessel backcheck as hard as Seguin in his time here in Boston.

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