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2013 Post-Mortem - Bergevin's Best/Worst Moves

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Old
05-10-2013, 10:46 AM
  #126
PATCHESx67
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ne one knows when MB will do hes press conference ? i know the nucks did it one day after getting eliminated so was wondering if the habs was doing the same.

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05-10-2013, 11:08 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Waiting a little bit before giving him as much as 4 years on a contract might have been wise... Plus, it's clear we have a logjam at center.

What's the excuse to put Galchenyuk or Eller, who had just as many points without playing on the PP, all while being bigger, stronger and more complete as players, on the wing in your starting lineup? There is none.
There is a great excuse, Galchenyuk is worse defensively than DD right now and he plays LW which has much less defensive responsibility. He still needs development time and sheltered minutes. Some people here just see the nice offensive plays and overlook the defensive issues and all around inexperience. Teams with teenagers in their top 6 rarely do a lot of winning unless you're talking genrerational talent.

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05-10-2013, 11:12 AM
  #128
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Yea I loved the Halpern addition. He was 55.6% on his faceoffs this year, no reason why we can't keep him for under a million.
Yeah him and White as #4 center are solid. Dumont can also fill in there.

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05-10-2013, 11:18 AM
  #129
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I loved Dumont's energy and tenaciousness for a guy his sized

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05-10-2013, 11:22 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by ThaDevilGirl View Post
The contract isn't terrible assuming he can go back to his production of last year. It can be movable to a team that needs offensive depth. However I question the timing of the extension. I think MB should have waited until the end of the season but I'm not a GM.
Even at this year's production, 10-18-28 in 48 games translates to 17-31-48 in a full season, still in the #2 center range. His 5 on 5 production rate was pretty close to the same(0.49 vs 0.43) it's his PP points that dropped from 20/81 games to 7/48 games. His overall ice time dropped by 2 minutes which contributed to the drop in production.

What difference does waiting at the end of the season do? The guy is a RFA, you have 3 options, you re-sign, trade or non-tender him. Non tender would be moronic. Trading him opens a hole at center which you end up either rushing needlessly Galchenyuk or overpaying for a UFA who may not be as good. Going 4 years protects your asset from losing him for nothing next summer if you only sign a 1 year deal.

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05-10-2013, 11:23 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
IMHO his biggest mistake was not getting a guy like Kassian on waivers when he had the chance. Would have helped against teams like Toronto Boston and Ottawa who like to goon it up, at least during the season.

Also I would have tried to get Fistric and sign him for a couple more years.
I think the Canadiens tried to claim Tom Sestito but he was claimed by Vancouver. I never saw him play so I wouldn't know how effective he would have been with the Canadiens.

From what I recall, priorities for waivers go for the lower seeded teams? Maybe Bergevin tried to claim a bunch of serviceable tough dudes via waivers but other teams claimed them before?

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05-10-2013, 11:28 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by CGG View Post
So what would all of you geniouses done with DD? He's an RFA. He will need a new contract. You either dump him before the playoffs (which would have been a disaster), you let him walk by not tendering a QO (which is dumb dumb dumb), you try to sign him for something less than $3.5 million (which doesn't stop the mindblowing hatred the guy suddenly has) or you try to trade him, when no team will be willing to trade for a $3 million range smallish centre leading up to cap hell.

What would you have done with him? Dump him for nothing? Watch our foreward depth take another hit? Let his 60 point capabilities walk away? What?
WTF are you talking about? The guy was an RFA, there was no rush to sign him during the season, none at all.

You do know that right? Know the system before you post.

It is a bizarre move. It was just dumb to do it.

The only explanation I can think of is that Bergy:

1. Had no confidence in Eller or Chuckie as a no 2 C next year.
2. He thought DD would light it up and demand 5 mill this summer.

If so, he ****ed up, on both counts.

Otherwise Bergy has been fine. But the DD signing was, very probably ,a big ****up. Just admit it.

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Old
05-10-2013, 11:33 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by JustAHabFan View Post
From the beginning, I was against low balling Subban and get him to sign a bridge contract. Half of the fanbase supported MB at the time. Now people start to realize it was a big mistake from MB to sign Subban short term.
It's not a mistake, at all. If Habs were cash strapped, it was a mistake. it was simply pushing the payout till later. Sigh. This is such a non issue. Seriously not even worth discussing. If you want to argue, then think before you do.

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05-10-2013, 11:37 AM
  #134
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best moves:
- Prust
- not spending big $$ on UFA market
- Removing Gomez
- not trading away assets for a rental at deadline
- Ryder/Cole trade

worst moves:
- Subban contract
- Desharnais contract



questionable:
- bouillion/armstrong/halpern
all three, on their own, where good additions that fit a role usefully, but within context of our roster, that seriously lacks physically imposing players, getting at least 1 depth guy over 6', 210pds, would have been beneficial. Halpern was a good move, bouillion & Armstrong likely played a role in helping Therrien get established in the room, but having 1 of those 3 roster spots go to a guy who could stand in front of Prust/Moen would have been arguably a larger benefit.



overall he'd done an excellent job of making enough moves to get the culture shifting in the right direction & not making any massive blunders a la Gainey/Gauthier era. Hope this early playoff exit and somewhat humiliation by the Sens doesn't push him to overpay for a Clowe or Clarkson in the offseason (both would be nice additions, but not on big money/long-term deals).

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05-10-2013, 11:37 AM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGG View Post

What would you have done with him? Dump him for nothing? Watch our foreward depth take another hit? Let his 60 point capabilities walk away? What?
My second response, because I am just amazed: 2988 posts and you don't know the diff between RFA and UFA? You serious?

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Old
05-10-2013, 11:42 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by bhuya71 View Post
I loved Dumont's energy and tenaciousness for a guy his sized
Good, because he will replace DD as the local favorite in 2 years. I also like Dumont. Way more than DD.

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Old
05-10-2013, 11:42 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
There is a great excuse, Galchenyuk is worse defensively than DD right now and he plays LW which has much less defensive responsibility. He still needs development time and sheltered minutes. Some people here just see the nice offensive plays and overlook the defensive issues and all around inexperience. Teams with teenagers in their top 6 rarely do a lot of winning unless you're talking genrerational talent.
You're one to talk about seeing whatever you want.

For all the "sheltered minutes" Galchenyuk need, some other players, such as Desharnais, sure look like they still have a lot to learn in defensive coverage and overall play.

For playing all his sheltered minutes, Galchenyuk was with 4 other players on the ice at the same time as him in those sheltered minutes, and none of the players with whom he played those sheltered minutes had a better differential than him this season. But of course, now that we're not talking about Gorges, +/- is not a valid argument, is it?

Talk about your philosophy with teams such as Chicago, who won a Stanley Cup with a 20 years old captain...

Galchenyuk is statistically and concretely ready to take on more responsibilities. Will he have some growing pains? Of course he will. Just like any young player. But sheltering him and playing him off position won't prevent those from happening, as he'll need to face bigger challenges sooner than later. By sheltering him, you just slow his progression down. You might have the impression he doesn't struggle, but in the end, what you are proposing is exactly the same flawed, BS approach as Jacques Martin, who almost ruined Pacioretty and Eller.

Galchenyuk will struggle to adapt. Like every single player do. The more time you take to make him go through that "pain", the more time you let him in that sheltered role, and the more time it will take him to actually take that next step.


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Old
05-10-2013, 11:43 AM
  #138
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Dave_Stubbs:
#Habs meet media for final time this season between 1-3 pm tomorrow in Brossard, GM Bergevin debriefs Monday at noon, same place

https://twitter.com/dave_stubbs/stat...97824599580672

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Old
05-10-2013, 11:44 AM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Even at this year's production, 10-18-28 in 48 games translates to 17-31-48 in a full season, still in the #2 center range. His 5 on 5 production rate was pretty close to the same(0.49 vs 0.43) it's his PP points that dropped from 20/81 games to 7/48 games. His overall ice time dropped by 2 minutes which contributed to the drop in production.

What difference does waiting at the end of the season do? The guy is a RFA, you have 3 options, you re-sign, trade or non-tender him. Non tender would be moronic. Trading him opens a hole at center which you end up either rushing needlessly Galchenyuk or overpaying for a UFA who may not be as good. Going 4 years protects your asset from losing him for nothing next summer if you only sign a 1 year deal.
So let me check something... Galchenyuk putting up impressive numbers doesn't change the fact he needs some serious sheltering, but Desharnais, who put up about the same offensive stats with PP time, and all that while playing pathetic defensive hockey, doesn't?

Yeah. Double standards. As usual.

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05-10-2013, 11:45 AM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Even at this year's production, 10-18-28 in 48 games translates to 17-31-48 in a full season, still in the #2 center range. His 5 on 5 production rate was pretty close to the same(0.49 vs 0.43) it's his PP points that dropped from 20/81 games to 7/48 games. His overall ice time dropped by 2 minutes which contributed to the drop in production.

What difference does waiting at the end of the season do? The guy is a RFA, you have 3 options, you re-sign, trade or non-tender him. Non tender would be moronic. Trading him opens a hole at center which you end up either rushing needlessly Galchenyuk or overpaying for a UFA who may not be as good. Going 4 years protects your asset from losing him for nothing next summer if you only sign a 1 year deal.
WTF? RFA is NOT UFA! With a QO in june, DD had absolutely no right to walk away this summer, what are you on about? Are you guys all drunk?

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Old
05-10-2013, 11:48 AM
  #141
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WTF? RFA is NOT UFA! With a QO in june, DD had absolutely no right to walk away this summer, what are you on about? Are you guys all drunk?
He said if we sign him 1 year then he would be UFA.

Youre drunk too

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05-10-2013, 12:16 PM
  #142
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Good lord, reading comprehension isn't a strong suit of yours, is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsl View Post
WTF are you talking about? The guy was an RFA, there was no rush to sign him during the season, none at all.

You do know that right? Know the system before you post.
He's an RFA? Really? It's almost as if I should have put that in my post. Wait, I did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CGG View Post
So what would all of you geniouses done with DD? He's an RFA. He will need a new contract. You either dump him before the playoffs (which would have been a disaster), you let him walk by not tendering a QO (which is dumb dumb dumb), you try to sign him for something less than $3.5 million (which doesn't stop the mindblowing hatred the guy suddenly has) or you try to trade him, when no team will be willing to trade for a $3 million range smallish centre leading up to cap hell.
So yes, I do in fact know the system. When you have an expiring contract on an RFA you either walk away from the guy or choose to tender him a QO, and attempt to sign him to a new contract. I'm just pointing out all the options, try to follow along please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsl View Post
My second response, because I am just amazed: 2988 posts and you don't know the diff between RFA and UFA? You serious?
Great, another post on the same stupid issue that you failed to read properly the first time. I know quite well what the difference is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsl View Post
WTF? RFA is NOT UFA! With a QO in june, DD had absolutely no right to walk away this summer, what are you on about? Are you guys all drunk?
This one wasn't directed at me but you still can't get it right. The OP said if you only sign him short term, like one year, then he would be a UFA after next season.

Start over please.

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Old
05-10-2013, 12:23 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
4 more years of Desharnias was a HUGE mistake.. especially at 3.5M per year, thats aweful..
This!

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05-10-2013, 12:25 PM
  #144
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[QUOTE=bhuya71;65759079]I loved Dumont's energy and tenaciousness for a guy his sized[/QUOTE]

NO. NO. and NON!

Enough with the slightly skilled midgets on our third and fourth lines and on defense. They will help you win a few more games in the regular season, but when the going gets tough or in the playoffs their 'short-comings' are glaringly exposed.

The only midgets on this team need to be top-end talent (Gallagher, St. Louis types)

NO MORE F**KING MIDGETS PLEASE!

NO MORE Desharnais
NO MORE Diaz
NO MORE Dumont

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05-10-2013, 12:34 PM
  #145
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
WTF are you talking about? The guy was an RFA, there was no rush to sign him during the season, none at all.

You do know that right? Know the system before you post.

It is a bizarre move. It was just dumb to do it.

The only explanation I can think of is that Bergy:

1. Had no confidence in Eller or Chuckie as a no 2 C next year.
2. He thought DD would light it up and demand 5 mill this summer.

If so, he ****ed up, on both counts.

Otherwise Bergy has been fine. But the DD signing was, very probably ,a big ****up. Just admit it.
What difference does it make wether he signed him 2 months ago or sign him now?

People complained that Gainey didn't sign anybody during the season, now people complain that MB did. Some people are NEVER happy.

Even if Eller is #2 center you still need a #3. I don't blame him for not having confidence in Galchenyuk as #2 next year, he struggled as a #3, still a work in progress.

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05-10-2013, 12:41 PM
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Even at this year's production, 10-18-28 in 48 games translates to 17-31-48 in a full season, still in the #2 center range. His 5 on 5 production rate was pretty close to the same(0.49 vs 0.43) it's his PP points that dropped from 20/81 games to 7/48 games. His overall ice time dropped by 2 minutes which contributed to the drop in production.

What difference does waiting at the end of the season do? The guy is a RFA, you have 3 options, you re-sign, trade or non-tender him. Non tender would be moronic. Trading him opens a hole at center which you end up either rushing needlessly Galchenyuk or overpaying for a UFA who may not be as good. Going 4 years protects your asset from losing him for nothing next summer if you only sign a 1 year deal.
There are Lies, damn lies and statistics.
Watching a game with your eyes open tells you all you need to know about Desharnais. He is a soft, smallish forward with little to no speed and unable to compete along the boards. The fact that he is unable to produce on the power play, where there is more time and space, is very damning.

Bergevin's rush to sign Desharnais to an extension can not be explained in pure hockey terms, but, of course we all know about the blue-blanc-rouge elephant in the room.

I'm sure that Molson must be thrilled that after throwing away millions to buyout Gomez, he must now look at another multi-million ($14M) albatross that is the Desharnais contrat.

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05-10-2013, 01:00 PM
  #147
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[QUOTE=WakeUpNHL;65762755]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhuya71 View Post
I loved Dumont's energy and tenaciousness for a guy his sized[/QUOTE]

NO. NO. and NON!

Enough with the slightly skilled midgets on our third and fourth lines and on defense. They will help you win a few more games in the regular season, but when the going gets tough or in the playoffs their 'short-comings' are glaringly exposed.

The only midgets on this team need to be top-end talent (Gallagher, St. Louis types)

NO MORE F**KING MIDGETS PLEASE!

NO MORE Desharnais
NO MORE Diaz
NO MORE Dumont
As somebody already mention;
If the Habs' were bigger maybe they could have stopped all 5'9 and 163lbs of beastly man Pageau last night.

Having small players is an every team situation. Playing big is something else.

On DD, hes not the best canditate for our 2nd playoff center, but he is a passer, if Pac do not score, DD dont have points. And DD played against better line than Galchenyuk all year long.

Best move: They built a proud team for us and they will now adapt it, giving the time, to a playoff winning team, with draft picks only.

Worst move: Being too successful as a 1 year run, setting wrong expectations to the fan pool.

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05-10-2013, 01:14 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
You're one to talk about seeing whatever you want.

For all the "sheltered minutes" Galchenyuk need, some other players, such as Desharnais, sure look like they still have a lot to learn in defensive coverage and overall play.

For playing all his sheltered minutes, Galchenyuk was with 4 other players on the ice at the same time as him in those sheltered minutes, and none of the players with whom he played those sheltered minutes had a better differential than him this season. But of course, now that we're not talking about Gorges, +/- is not a valid argument, is it?

Talk about your philosophy with teams such as Chicago, who won a Stanley Cup with a 20 years old captain...

Galchenyuk is statistically and concretely ready to take on more responsibilities. Will he have some growing pains? Of course he will. Just like any young player. But sheltering him and playing him off position won't prevent those from happening, as he'll need to face bigger challenges sooner than later. By sheltering him, you just slow his progression down. You might have the impression he doesn't struggle, but in the end, what you are proposing is exactly the same flawed, BS approach as Jacques Martin, who almost ruined Pacioretty and Eller.

Galchenyuk will struggle to adapt. Like every single player do. The more time you take to make him go through that "pain", the more time you let him in that sheltered role, and the more time it will take him to actually take that next step.
Galchenyuk isn't Toews.

He played softer minutes than DD, as a center, after eller went down and he was a -4 despite getting 3 points. DD was +1 despite only getting 1 point. If Galchenyuk was ready and could handle the #3 role, they wouldn't have moved him back to wing and put Halpern on his line.

HF Mentality...veterans never do enough and young palyers are great and can do no wrong.

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05-10-2013, 01:19 PM
  #149
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I like most of what Bergevin has done and predicted that the Habs would do far better than they did last season. However, there are a few things he did, or did not, do that I have hated.

1--NOT hiring Larry Robinson to coach the defence.
2--NOT getting a Ryan Clowe type of forward (or even Clowe himself!) for the playoffs.
3--NOT getting a Clayton Stoner type of defenceman for the playoffs.
4--Giving Desharnais 3.5 million for 4 years.
5--Hiring Therrien to coach the team. I didn't like this move because of how much it was obvious last year that Therrien did not like Subban. What happened? Therrien tried to crush Subban and showed a remarkable lack of trust in Subban's skills and abilities for far too long.



However, I am pleased, overall, with what Bergevin has started and how we did in his first year as GM. All we need for him to do is recognize some of his errors and for him to go out and correct them as best he can. I am very willing to give Bergevin another 2-4 years to see what he can do with our team.

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05-10-2013, 01:23 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
What difference does it make wether he signed him 2 months ago or sign him now?

People complained that Gainey didn't sign anybody during the season, now people complain that MB did. Some people are NEVER happy.

Even if Eller is #2 center you still need a #3. I don't blame him for not having confidence in Galchenyuk as #2 next year, he struggled as a #3, still a work in progress.
I can't believe you don't see the difference in signing policies and why there are concerns.

Desharnais was no threat to leave and needed further assessment .
Players like Streit and others were developing well and were real assets that were a threat to leave.

I don't think Desharnais is a disastrous signing on its own but it smells of language politics that keeps the Gm in favour with the most vocal media segment.

It pacifies those that may be ready to open up the Louise Leblanc can of worms.

I am willing to give MB the benefit of the doubt as long as he continues with a plan to make the Habs stronger physically.

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