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Subban and that bridge contract..(what to expect with his next extension)

View Poll Results: Bridge contract
Bridge contract was a smart deal. It was a good move for both parties 107 54.04%
Should have signed him long term (likely cheaper) when we had the chance. Bit of a blunder by MB. 91 45.96%
Voters: 198. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-10-2013, 02:05 PM
  #101
overlords
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Originally Posted by coladin View Post
3 yrs - 22.5M, 7.5 yr, play a little more but shorter term to ensure he doesn't go off the rails.
We should enroll him in AA, you know, preventative measures. Just in case.

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05-10-2013, 02:05 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Millpool View Post
Plus, you get an additional 2 years and have an easier time constructing the whole roster. Still a smart move imo.
....Is this because we'll have $2 million or so less cap space every single year for the next 5 or 6 years?

I guess this new math isn't my thing because I thought if we had more cap space it would be easier to construct a whole roster. Who knows, maybe in a couple of years, I'll get "it".

To me the bridge deal was a stupid thing and I wanted to sign him to Markov-type money instead of what transpired.

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05-10-2013, 02:06 PM
  #103
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With the extra money we'll probably just extend and overpay our free agents... oh wait
With the extra money, we'll have the option of signing some guys in the offseason to fill some needs.

I don't give a crap about the extra 2M in 2 years, the cap will have increased by almost 3 times that margin, without even counting Gionta and Markov coming out of the books.

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05-10-2013, 02:10 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Price was the best player on the team the last 2 years, how does that qualify as "never"?
Price was the best player 2 years ago, by far. He had an elite season. The team sucked and didn't deserve to make the playoffs. Price was dominant that year. He had to win games with 1 goal leads 2-1 and 3-2 all season where we would go in complete passive defense mode in the 3rd and the other team would get a million chances/shots. He was not allowing softies and was making at least 1-2 big saves every game. I ate a lot of crow that season.

Last year ? I'm gonna have to disagree. Pacioretty, Cole and Subban all had superior seasons to Price. How many wasted leads in the third ? Was that all Price ? No. But elite goalies will steal some of those. And even if I were to agree, the best I could say was that he was the least bad of all the bads. We finished 15th, there was nothing redeeming about that season.

Still Price has been the best player on the team once.

But I'd say Subban has been the best twice now. Last year and this year.

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05-10-2013, 02:21 PM
  #105
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bad move by MB...

did a poor job of watching game tape and personality homework understanding what type of talent/person Subban is.

there were enough indications, both of his on-ice play and his behavior away from the rink, that showed what kind of individual he is beyond the occasional flashes of immaturity.

people will cringe, but from my perspective, hard not to see the color of his skin as part of the blunder. you don't have to be "racist" to get subtly biased by the color of a person's skin.

If Subban were a white kid from toronto with the same career path, he'd have either signed a much bigger deal with his home club (like Benn), or been offered a big-time offer sheet (like O'reilly).

MB ended up with a very small short term "win" (and a pointless one at that, since the cap savings were of little use to the team), but it's going to come at a major long-term cost.

7-8M$ per year is what he's looking at, barring injury... that's ~2.5-3.5M$ more than we could have had him for the next 3-5 seasons. That loss of cap space is going to hurt big time with Galch, Gally, Eller, Emelin, Tinordi & Beaulieu all getting raises, and perhaps big raises, in that same time span.

big screw up on MB's part. Just have to hope he doesn't mess up the extension... Subban is a player we deserve to enjoy playing for the habs for the next decade+!

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05-10-2013, 02:27 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
bad move by MB...

did a poor job of watching game tape and personality homework understanding what type of talent/person Subban is.

there were enough indications, both of his on-ice play and his behavior away from the rink, that showed what kind of individual he is beyond the occasional flashes of immaturity.

people will cringe, but from my perspective, hard not to see the color of his skin as part of the blunder. you don't have to be "racist" to get subtly biased by the color of a person's skin.


If Subban were a white kid from toronto with the same career path, he'd have either signed a much bigger deal with his home club (like Benn), or been offered a big-time offer sheet (like O'reilly).

MB ended up with a very small short term "win" (and a pointless one at that, since the cap savings were of little use to the team), but it's going to come at a major long-term cost.

7-8M$ per year is what he's looking at, barring injury... that's ~2.5-3.5M$ more than we could have had him for the next 3-5 seasons. That loss of cap space is going to hurt big time with Galch, Gally, Eller, Emelin, Tinordi & Beaulieu all getting raises, and perhaps big raises, in that same time span.

big screw up on MB's part. Just have to hope he doesn't mess up the extension... Subban is a player we deserve to enjoy playing for the habs for the next decade+!
Agree with everything except the bold part.

My guess is that Bergevin listened to some vocal people in the organization who told him that PK was immature and a distraction in the room. He didn't listen to the right people if so.

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05-10-2013, 02:31 PM
  #107
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I added a poll.

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05-10-2013, 02:31 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by coladin View Post
3 yrs - 22.5M, 7.5 yr, play a little more but shorter term to ensure he doesn't go off the rails.
why anyone would be worried about Subban "going off the rails" is completely beyond me.

Few athletes are as dedicated to becoming as great a players as they can be, as Subban is.

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05-10-2013, 02:32 PM
  #109
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I just voted.

But it was more than just a bit of a blunder. It was kind of a big one. We could have inked him long term at 5M, now it will cost 7+. Not to mention the potential bad blood it created.

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05-10-2013, 02:32 PM
  #110
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Wouldn't be surprised if he signs at very long term contract at the same AAV as Price. I hope so at least.

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05-10-2013, 02:34 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Agree with everything except the bold part.

My guess is that Bergevin listened to some vocal people in the organization who told him that PK was immature and a distraction in the room. He didn't listen to the right people if so.
that's the thing... both the vocal criticism from those sources AND the inclination to listen to them vs. all the easily available sources of positive vindication strain any sort of reasonable doubt that some other factor had to be working against him.

how easy it was for the detractors to make their case, and be believed, leaves open a door wide enough for the elephant to make his way easily into the room.

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05-10-2013, 02:36 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by MJG View Post
Wouldn't be surprised if he signs at very long term contract at the same AAV as Price. I hope so at least.
It will be more. Especially if PK wins the Norris. But even if he doesn't.. he's proven in the playoffs, big time money player with all the right tools and very very few weaknesses. He is the Ovechkin of dmen without the propensity to go obese and stop working. Total package.

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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
that's the thing... both the vocal criticism from those sources AND the inclination to listen to them vs. all the easily available sources of positive vindication strain any sort of reasonable doubt that some other factor had to be working against him.

how easy it was for the detractors to make their case, and be believed, leaves open a door wide enough for the elephant to make his way easily into the room.
Well, it could have been Carrière, Gorges, Plekanec, Markov... all guys who you sorta guess clashed with PK at times. Put yourself in MB's shoes.. those are big cogs in the org and if they say those things... again, I was very vocal about wanting Subban signed long term last summer, but I'm playing devil's advocate here.

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05-10-2013, 02:41 PM
  #113
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Hindsight is 20/20. Coming into a new system with a new coach and management, what if he didn't fit in?

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05-10-2013, 02:42 PM
  #114
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Who said there was a problem? I am just informing you that the team has benefitted from Bergevins contract management policies as overlords stated.
Whether you want to call it a 'problem' or 'not playing up to his potential' doesn't matter. Claiming the difference between PK last year and this year is because Bergevin lit a fire under PK is insane.

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05-10-2013, 02:46 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Agree with everything except the bold part.

My guess is that Bergevin listened to some vocal people in the organization who told him that PK was immature and a distraction in the room. He didn't listen to the right people if so.

Quite plausible . Thanks for pointing that angle out.

Pk is such a different animal to the hockey establishment , in terms of energy, the way he communicates, his swagger , and yes his colour there are going to be some who assess him with these things in mind.

I have some of my own stories as well and I will just say this . Subban has rippled the milquetoast middle aged hockey world and some people don't like it.

I think he,'s a treasure and I have a signed Subban jersey I wear proudly .

(And I am a white middle aged guy)

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05-10-2013, 02:47 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
Hindsight is 20/20. Coming into a new system with a new coach and management, what if he didn't fit in?
many of us made the same comment prior to... it's not hindsight.


If your new system/coach isn't able to "fit in" a norris caliber dman, then you might want to scrap the system/coach.

we aren't talking about a one-dimensional player who could only play/thrive in one system or style of play, or a guy who was constantly benefiting from playing with a superstar partner.

Subban has excelled for every team/coach he's played for in the past 5-6 seasons...

Pat Quinn, Guy Boucher, Jaques Martin, Randy Cunneyworth...

and with every d partner

Gill, Spacek, Bouillion, Gorges, Markov...


his ascent was predictable (some have been predicting the eventual norris caliber for a long time, though i don't know that anyone had him down for doing it so soon). MB let something blind him to what was obvious to many of us "non-professionals".

it's a mistake, no sense in trying to hide or excuse it.

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05-10-2013, 02:47 PM
  #117
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Hindsight is 20/20. Coming into a new system with a new coach and management, what if he didn't fit in?
A lot of people called it (including me) last summer.

He had no problems signing Price to a long term big money contract though.

No problem with doing the same with Pacioretty either ? Although the PAtch deal was a no brainer. Since it was pretty low.

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05-10-2013, 02:48 PM
  #118
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But it was more than just a bit of a blunder. It was kind of a big one. We could have inked him long term at 5M, now it will cost 7+. Not to mention the potential bad blood it created.
The whole bridge contract thing was just a matter of sticking to club's MO was it not? I don't think you need to worry about bad blood... I mean, I wouldn't have had a problem if they locked him up long-term but at the same time, I respect the club's right to adhere to certain policies or principles in contract negotiations.

At the end of the day, Subban is among the most talented hockey players in the world right now and likely will be at the end of his contract and will be paid accordingly. It will be a much easier negotiation in that sense.

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05-10-2013, 02:49 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Millpool View Post
Plus, you get an additional 2 years and have an easier time constructing the whole roster. Still a smart move imo.
There's no guarantee that we get an additional 2 years. In fact it had the very real possibility of alienating him so that he would want out as soon as possible. Not too mention nothing prevents us from extending him again after whatever long term deal he was looking for ended.

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05-10-2013, 02:50 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
that's the thing... both the vocal criticism from those sources AND the inclination to listen to them vs. all the easily available sources of positive vindication strain any sort of reasonable doubt that some other factor had to be working against him.

how easy it was for the detractors to make their case, and be believed, leaves open a door wide enough for the elephant to make his way easily into the room.
Totally agree. IMO I have good feeling Georges was probably the vocal one in the room. And Georges sounds like an idiot when he speaks and probably has a hard on for blue collar type behaviour. Georges being the one who has a blue collar work ethic but no talent; aka probably jelly of pk, since he has both, and like majority of fan base, thinks pk has no work ethic and just wants to goof around. I mean people are still suggesting that pk needed to be put into his place and that he will be needed to be put into his place later on, "again".

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05-10-2013, 02:51 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
bad move by MB...

did a poor job of watching game tape and personality homework understanding what type of talent/person Subban is.

there were enough indications, both of his on-ice play and his behavior away from the rink, that showed what kind of individual he is beyond the occasional flashes of immaturity.

people will cringe, but from my perspective, hard not to see the color of his skin as part of the blunder. you don't have to be "racist" to get subtly biased by the color of a person's skin.If Subban were a white kid from toronto with the same career path, he'd have either signed a much bigger deal with his home club (like Benn), or been offered a big-time offer sheet (like O'reilly).

MB ended up with a very small short term "win" (and a pointless one at that, since the cap savings were of little use to the team), but it's going to come at a major long-term cost.

7-8M$ per year is what he's looking at, barring injury... that's ~2.5-3.5M$ more than we could have had him for the next 3-5 seasons. That loss of cap space is going to hurt big time with Galch, Gally, Eller, Emelin, Tinordi & Beaulieu all getting raises, and perhaps big raises, in that same time span.

big screw up on MB's part. Just have to hope he doesn't mess up the extension... Subban is a player we deserve to enjoy playing for the habs for the next decade+!
Something lost on many anytime you bring up the fact that race might play a factor in how he's perceived

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05-10-2013, 02:52 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Quite plausible . Thanks for pointing that angle out.

Pk is such a different animal to the hockey establishment , in terms of energy, the way he communicates, his swagger , and yes his colour there are going to be some who assess him with these things in mind.

I have some of my own stories as well and I will just say this . Subban has rippled the milquetoast middle aged hockey world and some people don't like it.

I think he,'s a treasure and I have a signed Subban jersey I wear proudly .

(And I am a white middle aged guy)
i don't think many, if any, would have his color in "mind" in assessing him... that's the problem, it's the bias we aren't aware of that is the most dangerous precisely because we aren't mindful of it.

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05-10-2013, 02:52 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by MM425 View Post
The whole bridge contract thing was just a matter of sticking to club's MO was it not? I don't think you need to worry about bad blood... I mean, I wouldn't have had a problem if they locked him up long-term but at the same time, I respect the club's right to adhere to certain policies or principles in contract negotiations.

At the end of the day, Subban is among the most talented hockey players in the world right now and likely will be at the end of his contract and will be paid accordingly. It will be a much easier negotiation in that sense.
So what happens if Galchenyuk tops 90 pts in the last year of his ELC, are we also going to low-ball him on a bridge contract as well?

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05-10-2013, 02:57 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
A lot of people called it (including me) last summer.

He had no problems signing Price to a long term big money contract though.

No problem with doing the same with Pacioretty either ? Although the PAtch deal was a no brainer. Since it was pretty low.
It just don't make sense and really amplifies that MB is a rookie. Goes on stingy contracts talks with pk which results in his team losing a top defender for a few games, but then goes out in middle of the season and rewards, what seems to me at least, the medias golden boys in cube and DD which seemed like more then generous contracts.

MB needs to stick to trusting the people who work for the game like timmins, instead on focusing building a media loved roster.

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05-10-2013, 02:59 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
i don't think many, if any, would have his color in "mind" in assessing him... that's the problem, it's the bias we aren't aware of that is the most dangerous precisely because we aren't mindful of it.
Totally agree
And in the world of hockey I would expect for racism to be much more existant then in the "real world".

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