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Old
05-09-2013, 04:22 PM
  #826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boots electric View Post
Any prospects not named "Tarasenko" that look particularly appealing?
Tarasenko is currently occupying Ken Hitchcock's "Nikita Filatov Memorial Doghouse"...wonder how long it is before he's fed up with it.

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05-09-2013, 04:38 PM
  #827
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Originally Posted by boots electric View Post
Given the Blues complete inability to score goals despite winning the puck possession battle game after game, anyone else think St. Louis might inquire about Vanek? That team is in desperate need of a goal-scorer in the worst way.

What could they offer that we'd be interested in? Would they consider moving Oshie? Any prospects not named "Tarasenko" that look particularly appealing?
No Tarasenko no Vanek. I got no interest in Perron, Berglund, Oshie etc aka the overhyped Blues forwards who were supposed to make the jump to 1st line talent for the last 3 seasons and yet they can barely break 50 points. Tarasenko aside from his fluke hot start this year wasnt even that impressive and had a major concussion. It's not even outrageous to ask for him in a trade for Vanek, he put up a .5 ppg and it wasnt like he was 18, he's 21 years old. Vanek at that age was more productive. Darcy will get a Tarasenko type player in return, Vanek is by far the best forward available in free agency/trade market that he's going to return a nice package.

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05-09-2013, 05:21 PM
  #828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sba View Post
Tarasenko is currently occupying Ken Hitchcock's "Nikita Filatov Memorial Doghouse"...wonder how long it is before he's fed up with it.
I wouldn't read too much into it with this being his first playoffs. The kid has to improve in his own end and this is an extremely tight series.

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05-09-2013, 06:46 PM
  #829
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Originally Posted by boots electric View Post
Given the Blues complete inability to score goals despite winning the puck possession battle game after game, anyone else think St. Louis might inquire about Vanek? That team is in desperate need of a goal-scorer in the worst way.

What could they offer that we'd be interested in? Would they consider moving Oshie? Any prospects not named "Tarasenko" that look particularly appealing?
I like the Vanek for Oshie deal...

I posted it on the trade board in the stl-buf thread...

it was quickly shot down by the Sabres fans that don't "get it" and are embarasssing themselves in thread after thread, due to there complete misunderstanding of trade value

4 yrs Oshie > 1 yr Vanek

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05-09-2013, 07:54 PM
  #830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
I like the Vanek for Oshie deal...

I posted it on the trade board in the stl-buf thread...

it was quickly shot down by the Sabres fans that don't "get it" and are embarasssing themselves in thread after thread, due to there complete misunderstanding of trade value

4 yrs Oshie > 1 yr Vanek

I've watched most of the Blues series, and I'm still not 100% what kind of player Oshie is.

Brief scouting report on him, please?

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Old
05-09-2013, 08:14 PM
  #831
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Originally Posted by Zman5778 View Post
I've watched most of the Blues series, and I'm still not 100% what kind of player Oshie is.

Brief scouting report on him, please?
- skates well
- has a snipers shot (doesnt use it enough)
- proficient playmaker with the puck on his stick
- he plays bigger than his size... very strong
- he's an aggressive forward
- plays all situations
- does heavy d zone lifting (ES scoring limited by role/system)
- injury prone

People look at his stat sheet and make quick conclusions... he's out there doing the big boy work. It's Oshie and Backes on a line together doing all the heavy lifting, taking the kopitar/zetterberg/etc matchups every night.

2012-13
Backes .58 pts per game
Oshie .66 pts per game

Would fit right in as a top 6 RWer, plays the type of game in the effort/physical department that would endear him to Buffalo fans who are tired of the "soft" years.

personally.... I proposed it just to laugh at my fellow Sabres fans, who have delusional opinions about the trade value of 1 Year Vanek.

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05-09-2013, 08:30 PM
  #832
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
- skates well
- has a snipers shot (doesnt use it enough)
- proficient playmaker with the puck on his stick
- he plays bigger than his size... very strong
- he's an aggressive forward
- plays all situations
- does heavy d zone lifting (ES scoring limited by role/system)
- injury prone

People look at his stat sheet and make quick conclusions... he's out there doing the big boy work. It's Oshie and Backes on a line together doing all the heavy lifting, taking the kopitar/zetterberg/etc matchups every night.

2012-13
Backes .58 pts per game
Oshie .66 pts per game

Would fit right in as a top 6 RWer, plays the type of game in the effort/physical department that would endear him to Buffalo fans who are tired of the "soft" years.

personally.... I proposed it just to laugh at my fellow Sabres fans, who have delusional opinions about the trade value of 1 Year Vanek.
I'd love Oshie on this team. I commented after the Lucic incident that "heavy lifters" as you called him were exactly what we need more of.

Oshie plays like hes 6'5 250 when hes in actuality nowhere close. You are absolutely right to say Buffalo fans would infatuate themselves with him on a Steve Ott-like level.

That being said for Vanek I really think Darcy could get more than just Oshie for him. Not saying that Vanek for Oshie isnt enticing especially considering vanek is likely to leave via free agency anyways I just think there will be a bidding war for a scorer of Vanek's caliber given the very weak FA class headlined by Iginla, Roy, Riberio, and Weiss and we could potentially get a better package. Would love an Oshie+ package though...

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05-10-2013, 06:57 AM
  #833
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Originally Posted by RazielMoshman View Post
Looking at Vancouver's roster. Who's poachable/worth going for? Burrows? Raymond? Bieksa (the idea of him interview bombing in Buff is tempting)?
GM Mike Gillis stated “We are going to have to get younger”.
He also wants to get bigger more physical players. He feels that is a trend in the NHL that is not going to go away, but expects some GM's to push back to keep skill in the game.

Sabres have been going the same direction (younger, with size). So what do you think? Where will the NHL be in 4-5 years? Will Regier and Gillis have guessed right?

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Old
05-10-2013, 10:32 AM
  #834
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Originally Posted by DJN21 View Post
I'd love Oshie on this team. I commented after the Lucic incident that "heavy lifters" as you called him were exactly what we need more of.

Oshie plays like hes 6'5 250 when hes in actuality nowhere close. You are absolutely right to say Buffalo fans would infatuate themselves with him on a Steve Ott-like level.

That being said for Vanek I really think Darcy could get more than just Oshie for him. Not saying that Vanek for Oshie isnt enticing especially considering vanek is likely to leave via free agency anyways I just think there will be a bidding war for a scorer of Vanek's caliber given the very weak FA class headlined by Iginla, Roy, Riberio, and Weiss and we could potentially get a better package. Would love an Oshie+ package though...
I see no way the Sabres get 4 years of Oshie in his prime... for 1 year of Vanek at 30/31 years old.

People vastly underestimate the impact of "years of player control". Whether it's through RFA years (prospects, young players) or veterans with contract years in place.

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05-10-2013, 11:42 AM
  #835
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Originally Posted by sba View Post
Tarasenko is currently occupying Ken Hitchcock's "Nikita Filatov Memorial Doghouse"...wonder how long it is before he's fed up with it.
I'm beginning to think that guy is legitimately the american version of Don Cherry.

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Old
05-10-2013, 11:44 AM
  #836
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
- skates well
- has a snipers shot (doesnt use it enough)
- proficient playmaker with the puck on his stick
- he plays bigger than his size... very strong
- he's an aggressive forward
- plays all situations
- does heavy d zone lifting (ES scoring limited by role/system)
- injury prone

People look at his stat sheet and make quick conclusions... he's out there doing the big boy work. It's Oshie and Backes on a line together doing all the heavy lifting, taking the kopitar/zetterberg/etc matchups every night.

2012-13
Backes .58 pts per game
Oshie .66 pts per game

Would fit right in as a top 6 RWer, plays the type of game in the effort/physical department that would endear him to Buffalo fans who are tired of the "soft" years.

personally.... I proposed it just to laugh at my fellow Sabres fans, who have delusional opinions about the trade value of 1 Year Vanek.
Thats not been the case at all in the playoffs. Oshie has been on a line with Perron/Berglund getting offensive zone starts and is not out there doing the "big boy work" as you put it.

Backes has been playing with Steen + Schwartz. They lead St.Louis forwards in ES ice time. Oshie/Berglund/Perron are second in ES ice time. Oshie and his line have been getting eaten up by the Kings. He's been on the ice for more goals than any other Blue (5 of the 10 Kings' goals) and his linemates (Berglund/Perron) have been on for 4 each. I noticed you went with the point per game route for the regular season for his offensive production. When you look at his points per 60mins played its 13th of 14 of Blues' forwards that played 20 games or more.

So in summary, when Oshie is on a defensive line, like the regular season, he can't produce much offensively. When he's on an offensive line, like the playoffs, he gets lit up. If you're going to try and credit him for playing "big boy minutes" and reference the likes of Kopitar, Zetterberg, etc then he better damn well be at least near them in his play. But he isn't even close to them.

I've always felt he was overrated by many on here because he can be scrappy.


Last edited by joshjull: 05-10-2013 at 12:00 PM.
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Old
05-10-2013, 11:53 AM
  #837
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Originally Posted by RazielMoshman View Post
Looking at Vancouver's roster. Who's poachable/worth going for? Burrows? Raymond? Bieksa (the idea of him interview bombing in Buff is tempting)?
Was just about to post this in Vancouver Armchair GM thread... who's poachable/worth going for in Buffalo? Even just a "core shakeup" with the two teams would be nice.

I see ONE of Bieksa/Edler going this off-season, and both would likely fit well in Buffalo. Doubtful that Burrows goes but he very well could as his NTC doesn't kick in until June or July 1st IIRC. Raymond is UFA... he's all yours

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Old
05-10-2013, 12:04 PM
  #838
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You want a Blue that plays bigger than he is? Get Sobotka. Throws lots of hits and wins lots of faceoffs. Would be a good add as a bottom 6 center.

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05-10-2013, 12:04 PM
  #839
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Originally Posted by Rhinogol View Post
Vanek to Detroit for
Abdelkader,Tatar,1st

Miller to Pittsburgh for
Harrington
3rd
Adams
Vaneks contract is to rich for Detroit, Even as a Wings fan I would love to have him in Detroit but $7.5m for 1 more year is to rich for Detroit they would have to shed tons of salary to fit him under the cap. Most likely in return Detroit would most likely want to shed Johan Franzens contract as well. plus if we bought out Samuelsson and Coloiacovo then we might be able to swing it. And FYI why would Miller be traded to Pittsburgh when they have Marc Andre-Fleury and Tomas Voukon Goaltending is'nt an issue with Pittsburgh and I still see Miller going out west maybe to Phoenix for his last year especially if Smith moves on.

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Old
05-10-2013, 12:05 PM
  #840
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Thats not been the case at all in the playoffs. Oshie has been on a line with Perron/Berglund getting offensive zone starts and is not out there doing the "big boy work" as you put it.
Yes, he was injured for awhile... and did not return to that role in the playoffs

Quote:
Backes has been playing with Steen + Schwartz. They lead St.Louis forwards in ES ice time. Oshie/Berglund/Perron are second in ES ice time. Oshie and his line have been getting eaten up by the Kings. He's been on the ice for more goals than any other Blue (5 of the 10 Kings' goals) and his linemates (Berglund/Perron) have been on for 4 each. I noticed you went with the point per game route for the regular season for his offensive production. When you look at his points per 60mins played its 13th of 14 of Blues' forwards that played 20 games or more.
good point. the previous season he was 3rd best... you know, the season where he wasn't trying to gut it out through a stress fracture.

Quote:
So in summary, when Oshie is on a defensive line, like the regular season, he can't produce much offensively. When he's on an offensive line, like the playoffs, he gets lit up. If you going to try and credit him for playing "big boy minutes" and reference the likes of Kopitar, Zetterberg, etc then he better damn well be at least near them in his play. But he isn't even close to them.
WRONG. But thanks for summarizing a player based off a half season....

In 2011-2012, he was on the Backes line. Faced the 2nd highest QOC (Backes #1). And was 3rd in ES scoring per 60. His GF total was 2nd highest on the team at ES (60 to Backes 61). GF per 60 On Ice was 2nd best as well (Perron)

I guess, you just wanted to argue with me... rather than being a little more thorough.

I wasn't comparing him to Anza and Zets... I was pointing out that they were his most common opponents in the regular season.

Quote:
I've always felt he was overrated by many on here because he can be scrappy.
He's not overrated... or underrated. He's just a good solid top 6, 2 way forward, who has the playing style for today's game.

If Vanek for Oshie was on the table, would you say no?


Last edited by Jame: 05-10-2013 at 12:44 PM.
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Old
05-10-2013, 12:08 PM
  #841
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
You want a Blue that plays bigger than he is? Get Sobotka. Throws lots of hits and wins lots of faceoffs. Would be a good add as a bottom 6 center.
I love Sobotka, and have included him in many proposals...

He's simply a player who has more value to the team, than value in trade...

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05-10-2013, 01:43 PM
  #842
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Yes, he was injured for awhile... and did not return to that role in the playoffs
Curious why not. Since in your mind since he is the guy, along with Backes, the Blues give the big boy minutes to.

Quote:
good point. the previous season he was 3rd best... you know, the season where he wasn't trying to gut it out through a stress fracture.


WRONG. But thanks for summarizing a player based off a half season....

In 2011-2012, he was on the Backes line. Faced the 2nd highest QOC (Backes #1). And was 3rd in ES scoring per 60. His GF total was 2nd highest on the team at ES (60 to Backes 61). GF per 60 On Ice was 2nd best as well (Perron)

I guess, you just wanted to argue with me... rather than being a little more thorough.

I wasn't comparing him to Anza and Zets... I was pointing out that they were his most common opponents in the regular season.
Last year Oshie was 4th on the Blues in points/60min and 6th in goals/60mins. That was on bad offensive team (21st in the NHL). He played on the top line in St.Louis and these were his numbers 80gms 19g 54pts. Those are not remotely impressive offensive numbers considering his top line status. Not sure why that deserves praise. If anything you can ask how much of the Blues lack of offense that year was due to having Oshei/Backes getting top line and top PP minutes.

and yes I think the Blues forwards as a group are overrated. Their success is largely due to Hitch's defensive system. None of the Blues forwards are dynamic enough offensively for them to do much in the playoffs.


Quote:
He's not overrated... or underrated. He's just a good solid top 6, 2 way forward, who has the playing style for today's game.
Well if thats what you think of him I can't really disagree too much since I see him as secondary player. I was under the impression you viewed him as a two way player on the level of Kopitar, Zetterberg, etc.

Quote:
If Vanek for Oshie was on the table, would you say no?
Value-wise its fair. But I'm still clinging to the hope Vanek re-signs.


Last edited by joshjull: 05-10-2013 at 01:54 PM.
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Old
05-10-2013, 02:18 PM
  #843
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Curious why not. Since in your mind since he is the guy, along with Backes, the Blues give the big boy minutes to.
They went 0-3 after Oshie was injured, and tried a few things before settling into the Backes line that they are currently running with.

they then went 11-3 the rest of the way

considering the fact that Oshie came back early for the playoffs, and the Backes line was locked in... I think it's just the nature of the way events played out.

Quote:
Last year Oshie was 4th on the Blues in points/60min and 6th in goals/60mins. That was on bad offensive team (21st in the NHL). He played on the top line in St.Louis and these were his numbers 80gms 19g 54pts. Those are not remotely impressive offensive numbers considering his top line status. Not sure why that deserves praise.
3rd, Arnott doesn't count

Do you apply the same disappointment to Dustin Brown's continual 50 pt seasons? He's on a top line... and plays with a significantly better playmaker (Kopitar). Johann Franzen?

Quote:
If anything you can ask how much of the Blues lack of offense that year was due to having Oshei/Backes getting top line and top PP minutes.
it's not like the system has anything to do with it...

Quote:
and yes I think the Blues forwards as a group are overrated. Their success is largely due to Hitch's defensive system. None of the Blues forwards are dynamic enough offensively for them to do much in the playoffs.
You've missed the trees completely...



Quote:
Well if thats what you think of him I can't really disagree too much since I see him as secondary player. I was under the impression you viewed him as a two way player on the level of Kopitar, Zetterberg, etc.
no not at all



Quote:
Value-wise its fair. But I'm still clinging to the hope Vanek re-signs.
You've changed your stance on Vanek over the years...

As for the trade... I'd like to see some new, prime years, veteran talent returned in trade. Im full on rebuld, obviously... but I don't think it would be the worst thing in the world to move a final year player, for a guy who fits right into the top 6, and is signed for 4 years.

We have a ton of picks... lets get some new NHL talent in a trade

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05-10-2013, 02:58 PM
  #844
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Did Oshie play under Rolston at any point?

Vanek for Oshie.
Stafford for Burmistrov?

Ott-Hodgson-Oshie
Ennis-Burmistrov-Tropp
Leino-Grigorenko-Flynn
Foligno-Porter-Kaleta
Scott

Waive Gerbe.

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05-10-2013, 03:03 PM
  #845
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I wonder if Minny would be interested in 2 years of cost-controlled Stafford for RFA Cal Clutterbuck?

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05-10-2013, 03:05 PM
  #846
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Ott is not top line material.

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05-10-2013, 03:05 PM
  #847
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I wonder if Minny would be interested in 2 years of cost-controlled Stafford for RFA Cal Clutterbuck?
they'd have to find a way to dump Heatley...

Pommer, Setoguchi, Parise, Heatley... not sure they are adding Stafford at 4 mil to play in the bottom 6

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05-10-2013, 03:06 PM
  #848
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I wonder if Minny would be interested in 2 years of cost-controlled Stafford for RFA Cal Clutterbuck?
Chain, are you suggesting we eat some of Staff's salary in the deal by saying cost-controlled?

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05-10-2013, 03:10 PM
  #849
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Chain, are you suggesting we eat some of Staff's salary in the deal by saying cost-controlled?
Possibly, yes. Eat a million of Stafford's deal and then have another extremely physical player to plug into the Sabres bottom 6 rather than having a struggling top-6 guy taking up space down there.

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05-10-2013, 03:14 PM
  #850
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Quote:
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they'd have to find a way to dump Heatley...

Pommer, Setoguchi, Parise, Heatley... not sure they are adding Stafford at 4 mil to play in the bottom 6
I was thinking the Sabres retain some of Staff's salary (around a million). I suppose it depends on what they do with Heatley to one extent or another. But I certainly wouldn't mind if the Sabres could pick up Clutterbuck as a way of maximizing entertainment value by continuing to make this a heavy team to play against. If they can roll out Ott, Kaleta, Clutterbuck, Foligno sprinkled over three lines, there will be a good deal of home ice energy generated by keeping the fans engaged due to the glass rattling, board shaking hitting going on. Perhaps the salary doesn't work -- maybe they would be interested in something around #38.

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