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Old
05-10-2013, 10:52 AM
  #351
Dorian2
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I hereby officially complain about your complaint about complaining..

Hey...I come to this site to get knowledgeable insight of how team Canada, which includes all the players, is doing... and what people think of the team as a whole. I'm not reading this thread to hear about how Hall isn't being played enough with a role on a team that is very deep in offensive talent. Or that Dubnyk didn't start because they went with Smith.

I'd like to see some thoughtful analysis on how this team is shaping up. Team Canada has looked like it is improving on a game by game basis, and some players who have never played with each other starting to click a little bit.

I'd love to see all the Oilers get better ice time, but I will trust that Ruff knows a little more about many of the players and how to go about getting a gold medal better than myself.

And on a terser note, perhaps Hall would get more minutes if he didn't storm the O Zone like a stormtrooper on speed and flop on his butt like he did in his rookie season.

Did he forget what balance is?

I won't even mention the turnovers. Oh wait, I just did.

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05-10-2013, 11:13 AM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Dorian2 View Post
Hey...I come to this site to get knowledgeable insight of how team Canada, which includes all the players, is doing... and what people think of the team as a whole. I'm not reading this thread to hear about how Hall isn't being played enough with a role on a team that is very deep in offensive talent. Or that Dubnyk didn't start because they went with Smith.

I'd like to see some thoughtful analysis on how this team is shaping up. Team Canada has looked like it is improving on a game by game basis, and some players who have never played with each other starting to click a little bit.

I'd love to see all the Oilers get better ice time, but I will trust that Ruff knows a little more about many of the players and how to go about getting a gold medal better than myself.

And on a terser note, perhaps Hall would get more minutes if he didn't storm the O Zone like a stormtrooper on speed and flop on his butt like he did in his rookie season.

Did he forget what balance is?

I won't even mention the turnovers. Oh wait, I just did.
Fair enough sir.

The bolded rules me out. My give a **** about the relegation WC has left the station. Its just hard to take this tourney seriously. I'll stop posting in the thread. The only reason I watch is I tend to be a nightowl and its one better than the infomercials. Which is odd because I like hockey on big ice but tend not to like how is made of a tournament that means nothing. You can't ascertain anything anytime on where hockey nations are at on the basis of this tourney. Which is always going on as the NHL provides its best product.

To Wit teams like France look closer in the rear view mirror because any half decent player from France is available to play in this tournament.
In some way, success of nations like Sweden, Russia, Czech, Slovakia, Finland, in establishing so many players on the NHL level means they are less prepared for this tourney. Particularly hockey nations with a finite amount of Pro level talent.


Last edited by Replacement: 05-10-2013 at 11:28 AM.
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05-10-2013, 12:17 PM
  #353
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Fair enough sir.

The bolded rules me out. My give a **** about the relegation WC has left the station. Its just hard to take this tourney seriously. I'll stop posting in the thread. The only reason I watch is I tend to be a nightowl and its one better than the infomercials. Which is odd because I like hockey on big ice but tend not to like how is made of a tournament that means nothing. You can't ascertain anything anytime on where hockey nations are at on the basis of this tourney. Which is always going on as the NHL provides its best product.

To Wit teams like France look closer in the rear view mirror because any half decent player from France is available to play in this tournament.
In some way, success of nations like Sweden, Russia, Czech, Slovakia, Finland, in establishing so many players on the NHL level means they are less prepared for this tourney. Particularly hockey nations with a finite amount of Pro level talent.
It's this right here that is why we need the World Cup to come back and the NHL to continue it's participation in the Olympic Games. Best on best tournaments are the only way to really determine how well a country's hockey programs are working. That's why the WJHC is such a great tournament, that's why the Olympics are the best level of hockey around.

Having said that, the annual WC has a lot of merit too. Not because it's the best quality hockey around but because it gives weaker hockey nations (like France) a chance to play superior hockey nations and have a chance to compete. I'm willing to bet that countries like Switzerland and Germany have become stronger as a result.

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05-10-2013, 01:35 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Seems like its your issue with Hall. I have no horse in this race, I simply realize Hall is a good producer, one of the best in the NHL this season, and to not be seeing him on a PP and with topsix minutes is strange at best on a team assembled from losing clubs. Ask yourself how many players in front of Hall in the rotation and playing in topsix and PP production roles are better then Hall at this role.
Sorry, had a bit of a meltdown last night.

I have no horse in this race either and I love Hall but understand that he is not gonna be used the way he is here. That may change, but I am not going to get upset about Hall's diminished role, which seems to be what all the complaining is about.

He is over there learning. That's all I care about. Ice time is up to the coach and I lean towards the coach's opinion. Anyway, that's my stance.

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05-10-2013, 02:23 PM
  #355
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I don't think that players learn anything at this tournament. It's a tourney that has been traditionally dominated by the likes of Patrick O'Sullivan. Magnus Paajarvi was even named to the tournament All-Star team on one occasion.

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05-10-2013, 02:37 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
I don't think that players learn anything at this tournament. It's a tourney that has been traditionally dominated by the likes of Patrick O'Sullivan. Magnus Paajarvi was even named to the tournament All-Star team on one occasion.
Meh, it's fun for the players involved and it might give a guy who is on the cusp of making an Olympic team that final push when it comes down to it. I guess that's the hope.

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05-10-2013, 03:08 PM
  #357
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I was with the group at first glance seeing his ice time, but after watching the Norway game, it seemed to me they were just rotating 4 lines at even strength and Hall was unfortunate with the timing of penalties. Looking at the data closer supports this. Hall has played 26%, 16% (game he was benched), 22%, and 23% of the available even strength time, which seems fair for a 2nd/3rd line player. It really only looks so bad because he isn't on the PP or PK. Now we could argue that maybe he should get a little more PP time other than the one shift against Norway (likely to make up for the bad luck they were getting with the timing of the penalties), but obviously they've picked a PP unit and PK unit and are simply rotating even strength. That's a decent strategy at this point to get everyone used to each other, then shorten the bench when the games get more important.

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05-10-2013, 03:18 PM
  #358
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Classic Dubnyk softie on the Belarus goal. Hopefully that cements in the coaching staffs' minds that they should start Smith when the games start to matter.


Last edited by worraps: 05-10-2013 at 03:31 PM.
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05-10-2013, 03:27 PM
  #359
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Classic Dubnyk softie on the Belarus goal. Hopefully that cements in the coaching staff's mind that they should start Smith when the games start to matter.
Yea that double deflection off a stick and his defenseman's foot was pretty soft.

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05-10-2013, 03:30 PM
  #360
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Yea that double deflection off a stick and his defenseman's foot was pretty soft.
He could have dropped down to his knees with his stick on the ice like every other goalie who has started in the NHL since the mid 90s would have.

He's junk. God I hope we upgrade this summer.

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05-10-2013, 03:35 PM
  #361
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I was with the group at first glance seeing his ice time, but after watching the Norway game, it seemed to me they were just rotating 4 lines at even strength and Hall was unfortunate with the timing of penalties. Looking at the data closer supports this. Hall has played 26%, 16% (game he was benched), 22%, and 23% of the available even strength time, which seems fair for a 2nd/3rd line player. It really only looks so bad because he isn't on the PP or PK. Now we could argue that maybe he should get a little more PP time other than the one shift against Norway (likely to make up for the bad luck they were getting with the timing of the penalties), but obviously they've picked a PP unit and PK unit and are simply rotating even strength. That's a decent strategy at this point to get everyone used to each other, then shorten the bench when the games get more important.
28% today, unless some of his 12 minutes were on the PP.

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05-10-2013, 03:35 PM
  #362
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He could have dropped down to his knees with his stick on the ice like every other goalie who has started in the NHL since the mid 90s would have.

He's junk. God I hope we upgrade this summer.
No goalie would have been on his knees for what was going to be a cross ice pass until it took a 90 degree bounce 2 feet in front of him. It went five-hole because he was doing what he was supposed to do.

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05-10-2013, 04:18 PM
  #363
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No goalie would have been on his knees for what was going to be a cross ice pass until it took a 90 degree bounce 2 feet in front of him. It went five-hole because he was doing what he was supposed to do.
Its pointless. Even the game against Detroit where Petry scored on himself was a weak goal by Dubnyk according to some of his dedicated detractors.

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05-10-2013, 04:46 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
I don't think that players learn anything at this tournament. It's a tourney that has been traditionally dominated by the likes of Patrick O'Sullivan. Magnus Paajarvi was even named to the tournament All-Star team on one occasion.
if that is your criteria then the world JRs is junk too, seeing as both were regarded as outstanding in their tourny years.

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05-10-2013, 04:56 PM
  #365
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if that is your criteria then the world JRs is junk too, seeing as both were regarded as outstanding in their tourny years.
Where's Patrick O' Sullivan now? Oh yeah, he got cut from his Finnish elite league team earlier in the year. This tourney has no bearing on where a player is at the NHL level. It's also a completely different game compared to the NHL i.e. the big ice.

This tournament is fun but it's hardly a benchmark or a platform for players. The World Juniors are where 18 year olds go to make a name for themselves heading into their draft year. In some cases it can be misleading as well. Ryan O'Marra had a hell of a World Juniors for Canada.

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05-10-2013, 05:08 PM
  #366
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My guess is, from your fervent need to paint what's happening to Taylor Hall as "just", you may still be pining for Tyler Sequin.
No. I just understand the situation. Seguin can stay in Boston.

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05-10-2013, 05:15 PM
  #367
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Ruff admittedly doesn't know the young players in the west very well. It doesn't surprise me that Hall plays less then Matt Read or Jeff Skinner because Ruff doesn't know who Hall is.

It's a shame but oh well, at least he gets to play on the team. Prepare for the trolls to use this as ammo though.

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05-10-2013, 05:56 PM
  #368
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Its pointless. Even the game against Detroit where Petry scored on himself was a weak goal by Dubnyk according to some of his dedicated detractors.
The inability to see straight when it comes to Dubey cuts both ways, at the very least.

To his dedicated supporters, it's always someone else's fault. It couldn't be the mighty Dubey, with his vaunted SV%.

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05-10-2013, 06:04 PM
  #369
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Ruff admittedly doesn't know the young players in the west very well. It doesn't surprise me that Hall plays less then Matt Read or Jeff Skinner because Ruff doesn't know who Hall is.

It's a shame but oh well, at least he gets to play on the team. Prepare for the trolls to use this as ammo though.
This is what Struds said yesterday as well (speculation on his part). It makes sense. You go with what you know and give light minutes to those you are figuring out. I am sure it could be the same case if a western coach was leaning in western players because he plays them all the time. Thing is, Trotz and Tippett are also behind the bench so I am not sure it is a complete explanation. I am very sure they scout us well in the regular season and know what Oilers players do. It could be argued both ways.

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05-10-2013, 06:52 PM
  #370
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The inability to see straight when it comes to Dubey cuts both ways, at the very least.

To his dedicated supporters, it's always someone else's fault. It couldn't be the mighty Dubey, with his vaunted SV%.
Not always someone else's fault no, thats a major exaggeration Sometimes pucks deflect off defenders and totally change direction, some times Dmen shoot the puck into their own net, sometimes your own players panic and instead of clearing a rebound they set up opposing players for easy goals, sometimes Dubnyk misses an easy one, sometimes he miss handles the puck all goalies do that. According to Dubnyk detractors standards probably 50% of goals scored in the playoffs have been weak.

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05-10-2013, 09:43 PM
  #371
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Not always someone else's fault no, thats a major exaggeration Sometimes pucks deflect off defenders and totally change direction, some times Dmen shoot the puck into their own net, sometimes your own players panic and instead of clearing a rebound they set up opposing players for easy goals, sometimes Dubnyk misses an easy one, sometimes he miss handles the puck all goalies do that. According to Dubnyk detractors standards probably 50% of goals scored in the playoffs have been weak.
The puck Petry cleared into Dubnyk's net wasn't Dubnyk's fault.

Letting a puck deflected along the ice squeeze through his legs while he was lazily dropping down to his butterfly was his fault.

The reason goaltenders are better now than they were in the 80s and early 90s is that drop to the butterfly in anticipation of shots rather than rely on their reflexes Billy Ranford style. Dubnyk's entire game is built around this principle.

Sadly he starts day dreaming and forgets this, far too often.

Million dollar talent. 5 cent head.

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05-10-2013, 09:49 PM
  #372
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He could have dropped down to his knees with his stick on the ice like every other goalie who has started in the NHL since the mid 90s would have.

He's junk. God I hope we upgrade this summer.
Hey, he finished with nine saves for the win. What more could we ask?

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05-11-2013, 09:21 AM
  #373
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And "I know you are but what am I" makes an appearance.

The quality of this board is fecal.
I think you read a little too much into the comment there mouchacho. Must be having a bad. Maybe venture over to the trade rumors board for the fecal matter which you seek.

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05-11-2013, 10:24 AM
  #374
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Originally Posted by worraps View Post
The puck Petry cleared into Dubnyk's net wasn't Dubnyk's fault.

Letting a puck deflected along the ice squeeze through his legs while he was lazily dropping down to his butterfly was his fault.

The reason goaltenders are better now than they were in the 80s and early 90s is that drop to the butterfly in anticipation of shots rather than rely on their reflexes Billy Ranford style. Dubnyk's entire game is built around this principle.

Sadly he starts day dreaming and forgets this, far too often.

Million dollar talent. 5 cent head.
You do realize that it was a no-look pass from the boards into the slot where there were no Belarus players, that went off both of Campbell's skates and in? And you're blaming this fluke goal on Dubnyk somehow being lazy?

If you're going to slam him, make sure it's about a goal that is actually his fault.

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05-11-2013, 10:35 AM
  #375
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I think you read a little too much into the comment there mouchacho. Must be having a bad. Maybe venture over to the trade rumors board for the fecal matter which you seek.
No, the guy has a point. We don't need several pages of whiny pap about our players being hard done by. By all accounts Hall wasn't very good at all in the Belarus game. Must be why it's so quiet here now.

I was tuning into this thread for updates and quality observation of play. Not people jumping down someone's throat for explaining why Hall doesn't get the ice time that more dependable players are getting.

When people turn these threads into a piss-cry-moan fest, it ruins it for everyone.

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