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Old
05-10-2013, 03:16 PM
  #851
Prospector74
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Possibly, yes. Eat a million of Stafford's deal and then have another extremely physical player to plug into the Sabres bottom 6 rather than having a struggling top-6 guy taking up space down there.
I'd do that but we will still need to get goals from somewhere (smart arse comments aside regarding Stafford's production this year). If Vanek and Stafford ship out, we will need to bring in some skill scoring wingers through other trades of FA...or...just resign ourselves to stinking it up (which is not what I want).

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05-10-2013, 03:24 PM
  #852
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Originally Posted by Prospector74 View Post
I'd do that but we will still need to get goals from somewhere (smart arse comments aside regarding Stafford's production this year). If Vanek and Stafford ship out, we will need to bring in some skill scoring wingers through other trades of FA...or...just resign ourselves to stinking it up (which is not what I want).
I hate to tell you this, but I'm resigned to them stinking for a few years. I'm interested in them building more of a reputation as being a hard team to play against and increasing the entertainment value of a limitedly talented team by putting one of the more physical forwards in the NHL into their lineup.

They probably wouldn't bite on Stafford and I'm not sure I'd be too happy to see #38 go in trade, but perhaps that would be more in order with what the Wild are trying to do. It may depend on what they decided to do with Heatley up there.

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05-10-2013, 03:27 PM
  #853
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
I was thinking the Sabres retain some of Staff's salary (around a million). I suppose it depends on what they do with Heatley to one extent or another. But I certainly wouldn't mind if the Sabres could pick up Clutterbuck as a way of maximizing entertainment value by continuing to make this a heavy team to play against. If they can roll out Ott, Kaleta, Clutterbuck, Foligno sprinkled over three lines, there will be a good deal of home ice energy generated by keeping the fans engaged due to the glass rattling, board shaking hitting going on. Perhaps the salary doesn't work -- maybe they would be interested in something around #38.
i want the same thing

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05-10-2013, 03:29 PM
  #854
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
I hate to tell you this, but I'm resigned to them stinking for a few years. I'm interested in them building more of a reputation as being a hard team to play against and increasing the entertainment value of a limitedly talented team by putting one of the more physical forwards in the NHL into their lineup.

They probably wouldn't bite on Stafford and I'm not sure I'd be too happy to see #38 go in trade, but perhaps that would be more in order with what the Wild are trying to do. It may depend on what they decided to do with Heatley up there.
give them their 2nd in 2014 back for Clutterbuck
they can have Gerbe too

Cclutterbuck is one of those players that is impossible to gauge trade value for

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05-10-2013, 04:14 PM
  #855
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The title of this thread makes me want to vomit

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05-10-2013, 04:17 PM
  #856
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The title of this thread makes me want to vomit
Yeah seriously, I keep checking it in a fit of rage to see if this is actually being talked about.

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Old
05-10-2013, 04:49 PM
  #857
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With the big salaries they have, and Coyle, they won't want Stafford. Stafford is as much of a cap dump as Heatley. But I think they might want Vanek for...

Heatley
Clutterbuck
2014 1st / top prospect

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05-10-2013, 05:48 PM
  #858
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Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
With the big salaries they have, and Coyle, they won't want Stafford. Stafford is as much of a cap dump as Heatley. But I think they might want Vanek for...

Heatley
Clutterbuck
2014 1st / top prospect
They can keep their buyout fodder. A cap dump who's older than Vanek should absolutely not be the principle piece coming back for him.

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05-10-2013, 05:52 PM
  #859
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I just typed him first, I figured the principle would be Clutterbuck and/or 1st rd pick. I also think that's a semi-low end return, but what else depends on Vanek's potential to sign long-term and how much it means for Minny to ditch Heatley's cap. And why not take a cap dump for one season if it ups the return?? Isn't that an advantage of Pegula that Regier should exploit?

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05-10-2013, 05:56 PM
  #860
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I like Clutterbuck, people would absolutely love him in Buffalo, but if Minnesota is going to get rid of anyone I feel like he's got to be pretty low on their list of players to trade. He goes all out every game, is consistently up near the top of the hit leaders, and a better offensive player than people realize. Guys like Clutterbuck are the least of their problems - to get him out of Minny would either cost an overpayment, or his RFA situation would have to get ugly.

The whole Stafford/Parise thing does make Minnesota an interesting trade partner, though. Along with the fact that Darcy has now dealt with Fletcher in trades.

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05-10-2013, 05:57 PM
  #861
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
They can keep their buyout fodder. A cap dump who's older than Vanek should absolutely not be the principle piece coming back for him.
Agreed, it's pretty brutal from a Sabres POV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
I just typed him first, I figured the principle would be Clutterbuck and/or 1st rd pick. I also think that's a semi-low end return, but what else depends on Vanek's potential to sign long-term and how much it means for Minny to ditch Heatley's cap. And why not take a cap dump for one season if it ups the return?? Isn't that an advantage of Pegula that Regier should exploit?
We should take a cap dump to up the return if that's an option, the problem is that trade doesn't do that. Clutterbuck + 1st or prospect (unless that prospect is Granlund, Coyle or Brodin, which isn't happening) isn't enough for Vanek, even though Vanek only has one year left. There has to be a more valuable third piece than Dany Heatley.

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Old
05-10-2013, 06:01 PM
  #862
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Originally Posted by HockeyH3aven View Post
Yeah seriously, I keep checking it in a fit of rage to see if this is actually being talked about.
But don't you know, Luongo is under contract and therefore is WAY more valuable than Vanek.

Honestly, I can't believe Jame is actually convincing people that Oshie is worth Vanek. Sometimes I'm convinced he's just trolling to see how persuasive he can be. This is one of those cases.

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05-10-2013, 06:04 PM
  #863
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Take Heatley and get another draft pick...2015 2nd, whatever. I'm not about to split hairs over the minor details like some posters do. The general idea is - if Vanek wants out two factors could up the return by trading him to Minny 1) Vanek's better chance of re-signing there and 2) taking a cap dump.

Go from there but a roster player and 1st rd pick should be in there somewhere.

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05-10-2013, 06:43 PM
  #864
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
But don't you know, Luongo is under contract and therefore is WAY more valuable than Vanek.

Honestly, I can't believe Jame is actually convincing people that Oshie is worth Vanek. Sometimes I'm convinced he's just trolling to see how persuasive he can be. This is one of those cases.
Are you suggesting rentals have just as much value as players under contract? Jame is right here, 4 years of oshie>1 year of vanek

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05-10-2013, 06:59 PM
  #865
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"Rental"

A player who is acquired before the trade deadline. They are usually aquired to help getting in and during the playoff run of a team.


Second definition of "Rental"

A player who has one full year (or season) left on a existing contract where in they become a UFA after that full year.


I never looked at a full year from a player before UFA as a rental player

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05-10-2013, 07:08 PM
  #866
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
But don't you know, Luongo is under contract and therefore is WAY more valuable than Vanek.

Honestly, I can't believe Jame is actually convincing people that Oshie is worth Vanek. Sometimes I'm convinced he's just trolling to see how persuasive he can be. This is one of those cases.
No, I just get it... And you dnot. Your anecdotal example shows that the various impacts on trade value are not something you understand

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05-10-2013, 07:09 PM
  #867
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they'd have to find a way to dump Heatley...

Pommer, Setoguchi, Parise, Heatley... not sure they are adding Stafford at 4 mil to play in the bottom 6
We'll take Heatley and compliance buyout. Done. Leverage those Pegula bucks.

(then again, he's only under contract for 1 more season...might be worth it to play it out.)

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05-10-2013, 07:12 PM
  #868
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Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
"Rental"

A player who is acquired before the trade deadline. They are usually aquired to help getting in and during the playoff run of a team.


Second definition of "Rental"

A player who has one full year (or season) left on a existing contract where in they become a UFA after that full year.


I never looked at a full year from a player before UFA as a rental player
Neither does anyone else. Nor does any educated fan - excepting an odd minority of this particular forum - think Oshie = Vanek. A poll on the main board would overwhelmingly confirm if someone is so inclined.

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05-10-2013, 07:23 PM
  #869
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Neither does anyone else. Nor does any educated fan - excepting an odd minority of this particular forum - think Oshie = Vanek. A poll on the main board would overwhelmingly confirm if someone is so inclined.
I dont think anyones arguing that oshie is the better player. This is an argument about "trade value" which is much different than vanek vs oshie

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05-10-2013, 07:29 PM
  #870
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
I dont think anyones arguing that oshie is the better player. This is an argument about "trade value" which is much different than vanek vs oshie
According to this logic, Drew Stafford has more trade value than Vanek. Oshie and Stafford have very similar cap hits, are both signed through next year, are similar ages and similar stat lines, although Stafford has been a little better for the most part. Stafford > Vanek.

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05-10-2013, 07:43 PM
  #871
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Originally Posted by AirBriere48 View Post
Neither does anyone else. Nor does any educated fan - excepting an odd minority of this particular forum - think Oshie = Vanek. A poll on the main board would overwhelmingly confirm if someone is so inclined.
Thanks for the laugh

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Old
05-10-2013, 07:45 PM
  #872
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According to this logic, Drew Stafford has more trade value than Vanek. Oshie and Stafford have very similar cap hits, are both signed through next year, are similar ages and similar stat lines, although Stafford has been a little better for the most part. Stafford > Vanek.
Your opinion once again reinforces that you don't watch much non Sabres hockey

Keep building those straw men

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05-10-2013, 07:49 PM
  #873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
According to this logic, Drew Stafford has more trade value than Vanek. Oshie and Stafford have very similar cap hits, are both signed through next year, are similar ages and similar stat lines, although Stafford has been a little better for the most part. Stafford > Vanek.
Terrible comparison. Oshie, by far and away, is a better player than Stafford. It's not even close.

Oshie isn't as good as Vanek, and that's not all that close either.

But, from a trade value POV, Oshie being locked up for longer helps his trade value. Vanek only having one more year hurts his trade value UNLESS he goes to a team that has no interest in re-signing him.

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05-10-2013, 07:59 PM
  #874
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Terrible comparison. Oshie, by far and away, is a better player than Stafford. It's not even close.

Oshie isn't as good as Vanek, and that's not all that close either.

But, from a trade value POV, Oshie being locked up for longer helps his trade value. Vanek only having one more year hurts his trade value UNLESS he goes to a team that has no interest in re-signing him.
I am by no means saying Oshie is the BEST the Sabres could get in a Vanek deal... but if that offer were on the table, I'd take it over another mid range futures laden deal like the Pommer trade. I think getting some a young vet, 2 way, top 6 winger... under long term control would be a great move.

I doesn't matter what the VTVT's say (that's "Vanek Trade Value Tools"). These are the same clowns who were pointing to Carter to Columbus, and Richards to LA... and calling for "1 high end prospect, 1 young NHLer, and a high pick" in return for Pommer. And then when the Pommer trade went down for 2 prospects they never heard of and 2 picks, they were like "SEEEEEEEE!!!! TOLD YOU".

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05-10-2013, 08:06 PM
  #875
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We'll take Heatley and compliance buyout. Done. Leverage those Pegula bucks.

(then again, he's only under contract for 1 more season...might be worth it to play it out.)
Isn't Heatley injured? That means no buyout, doesn't it? (Don't know the specifics on when the player has to be healthy, though)

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