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05-10-2013, 02:39 PM
  #601
Brayden Pattison
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The fact that his spine is apparently made of the same brittle substance as Mez's shoulder is the deal breaker for me in Coots for Edler, although I'd take the chance with a lower tier player.

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05-10-2013, 02:40 PM
  #602
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Impatience.

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05-10-2013, 02:45 PM
  #603
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Impatience.
The definition of "Flyers Hockey?"

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05-10-2013, 03:38 PM
  #604
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Originally Posted by Broad St Cyberbully View Post
The fact that his spine is apparently made of the same brittle substance as Mez's shoulder is the deal breaker for me in Coots for Edler, although I'd take the chance with a lower tier player.
I'd be more concerned if he had been out a lot of games in recent times, but after having surgery in 2011, he played all 82 games (+ playoffs) in 2012, and all games this season too (except the ones he was suspended for "running' Smith) then went to the Worlds just recently...I don't think there's much a health concern at this point, though with our luck... :

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05-10-2013, 05:40 PM
  #605
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Originally Posted by A Clerk View Post
if i remember correctly i remember a lot of canucks fans saying edler is almost the exact same kind of player as coburn
Right, and would you trade Couts, Hartnell or our 11th overall for Coburn?

No, right.

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05-10-2013, 05:45 PM
  #606
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Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
What are the Canucks slated to pick at, 16-18? I don't know, I think as it stands right now, Edler is better than Couturier at a more pressing position. Sure, he's 7 years older, but he's entering the prime of his career as a defenseman.

I'm not trying to give Couturier away, believe me. Edler is signed at a pretty decent cap hit and the jury is really still out on whether Couturier will reach his ceiling. At any rate, Lavy misuses him as we've all seen anyway.

Now that you mention it, I'm keeping Couturier. Forget it lol!
Didn't mean to be a snarky as my post sounded, but I really like Couts and I think we can get a stud who is 2x better than Edler with the 11th pick.

There is trading for need and trading away too much potential to address that need.

We're going to have to trade something to get a top level D, if that's the plan.

I don't want to, but I'd rather trade Talbot, Read and Coburn than even discuss trading Couts.

We don't have many trade chips, unless you get an offer that is attractive enough to consider putting Simmonds or Laughton in the mix (not that I want to do that either).

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05-10-2013, 06:03 PM
  #607
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You are convinced they can get someone TWICE as good as Edler with the 11th pick in the NHL draft? Can you please tell me just *5* of the numbers for the powerball or megamillions? I won't be greedy and ask for all 6.

The NHL Draft is a crapshoot. I think it's probably the 3rd biggest crapshoot among the major 4 sports. Only baseball is more of a crapshoot IMO simply because so many players drafted are high schoolers and playing against mediocre competition. At least in the NHL the level of competition for CHL prospects is much better.

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05-10-2013, 06:08 PM
  #608
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Right, and would you trade Couts, Hartnell or our 11th overall for Coburn?

No, right.
It depends on his frustrated the Canucks are. I can see them wanting Coburn or Hartnell. Couturier and a draft choice are projects and I can't see them wanting that. They are in a win now mode.

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05-10-2013, 06:15 PM
  #609
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Didn't mean to be a snarky as my post sounded, but I really like Couts and I think we can get a stud who is 2x better than Edler with the 11th pick.
I took a look at the defensemen that have been drafted in the top 11 over the last 20 years and rarely do they become 'studs'. I'll post the list later.

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05-10-2013, 07:09 PM
  #610
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Edler isn't like Coburn imo...Edler consistently puts up 40+ pts per (82 gm) season (Coburn broke 30 once, years ago). He has a better shot he uses with more frequency and is good on the PP...moves the puck with more confidence than Coburn...defensively they're probably close, but Edler is likely a more physical player...Edler isn't a alpha dog #1 D man but he's top pairing type material...one concern I'd have would be his health, as he has some sort of chronic (I want to say back) issue he's been dealing with. It hasn't seemed to keep him down in recent times, so...
Edler isn't more physical then Coburn and he is just as inconsistent. True he is better offensively but no way can you put him against Malkin or AO and expect him to make life miserable for them like Coburn has done.

I would take him and put him with Schenn

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05-10-2013, 08:15 PM
  #611
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Billy Shoe proposed Couturier and 2nd in 2013 for Goligoski and 10th OVR in 2013, and it seems like both sides agree.

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05-10-2013, 08:18 PM
  #612
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Billy Shoe proposed Couturier and 2nd in 2013 for Goligoski and 10th OVR in 2013, and it seems like both sides agree.
That is not bad.

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05-10-2013, 08:23 PM
  #613
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I love Couturier and don't want to trade him but I think I'd do that. I'd prefer to swap out Couts for Laughton and maybe an additional mid pick/prospect. But that's a nice trade for both sides.

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05-10-2013, 08:35 PM
  #614
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Dallas don't need Goligoski?

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05-10-2013, 09:53 PM
  #615
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
I took a look at the defensemen that have been drafted in the top 11 over the last 20 years and rarely do they become 'studs'. I'll post the list later.
Just look at 2003, because that's the only comparable draft for depth.

By the time the Flyers' turn comes, there will be 4 or 5 D available who are going to be better than Edler.

If you accept the top 5 are, in whatever order: Jones, Drouin, Mackinnon, Barkov and Nichushkin

Then the next group is: Nurse, Lindholm, Monahan, Ristolainen, Horvat, Shinkaruk, Zadorov and even Fucale. That's 8, although I don't think the goalie will go that high.

We're going to get our pick of a couple guys from this group, or our pick of the rest: Hennessey, Pulock, Morin, Wennberg, Domi, Hagg, Mueller etc. and I'm quite sure that picking the right guy will yield a better player than Edler. This is the deepest draft in 10 years.

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05-10-2013, 10:12 PM
  #616
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Billy Shoe proposed Couturier and 2nd in 2013 for Goligoski and 10th OVR in 2013, and it seems like both sides agree.
I would be still a little hesitant but the value's there. Having the 10th and 11th pick would give some flexibility to take a guy like Nichushkin if he were to fall there and still get your defensemen.

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05-10-2013, 10:31 PM
  #617
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Just look at 2003, because that's the only comparable draft for depth...
So, I took your advice.

Only six defenseman went in the 1st round that year--
7. Ryan Suter
8. Braydon Coburn
9. Dion Phaneuf
14. Brent Seabrooke
21. Mark Stuart
30. Shawn Belle

Yes, some notable guys went later (Carle 47th, Weber 49th), 2003 wasn't exactly a great year for defenseman. Among the 1st rounders, really on Suter and Seabrooke are clearly better than Edler (you could argue Phaneuf was at some point, but he isn't now). Coburn is a comparable role player at his peak (2/3, not a #1) with a different skillset.

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05-11-2013, 10:39 AM
  #618
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No way in hell would I trade Couturier for Edler or Goligoski.

Goligoski was getting scratched at one point last season. I think he would be a smart guy to target in a buy low scenario, but including Couturier to get him? No way in hell.

Edler is good but on a pretty big contract and he's an offensive version of Coburn. I'd swap Coburn and another smaller piece for him.

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05-11-2013, 10:45 AM
  #619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
No way in hell would I trade Couturier for Edler or Goligoski.

Goligoski was getting scratched at one point last season. I think he would be a smart guy to target in a buy low scenario, but including Couturier to get him? No way in hell.
Goligoski I agree I would have no interest in if Couturier was involved. Edler I wouldn't have a problem with.

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Edler is good but on a pretty big contract and he's an offensive version of Coburn. I'd swap Coburn and another smaller piece for him.
Yeah, I'm sure you would do that. No way Vancouver does though. I can't imagine they trade for a player with similar skills defensively but less skill offensively, plus a smaller piece. Unless that smaller piece was Laughton or something along those lines, I don't see them entertaining that deal at all.

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05-11-2013, 10:56 AM
  #620
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Goligoski I agree I would have no interest in if Couturier was involved. Edler I wouldn't have a problem with.



Yeah, I'm sure you would do that. No way Vancouver does though. I can't imagine they trade for a player with similar skills defensively but less skill offensively, plus a smaller piece. Unless that smaller piece was Laughton or something along those lines, I don't see them entertaining that deal at all.
Coburn + Hartnell for Edler and a pick or Coburn + 2nd + a prospect not named laughton.

Just not that interested in Edler. He doesn't do it for me.

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05-11-2013, 11:20 AM
  #621
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
No way in hell would I trade Couturier for Edler or Goligoski.

Goligoski was getting scratched at one point last season. I think he would be a smart guy to target in a buy low scenario, but including Couturier to get him? No way in hell.

Edler is good but on a pretty big contract and he's an offensive version of Coburn. I'd swap Coburn and another smaller piece for him.
I agree with you on not moving Couturier for Edler and certainly not for Goligoski. However, Edler's offensive skill is more of what the Flyers need rather than Coburn's defense. Grossman and Schenn can play the body as well as Coburn. The organization needs a puck mover and a QB on the PP which Edler can be and Coburn can not.

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05-11-2013, 11:32 AM
  #622
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People forget that we need Couturier's defensive skills as well.

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05-11-2013, 11:51 AM
  #623
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
Coburn + Hartnell for Edler and a pick or Coburn + 2nd + a prospect not named laughton.

Just not that interested in Edler. He doesn't do it for me.
I would be pretty surprised if the Canucks went for either of those trades.

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People forget that we need Couturier's defensive skills as well.
I don't think people forget that. I think people look at the awful defense with no prospects in the pipe and no real good UFAs available, then look at the strength defensively in the forward crop as well as the forwards they have in the system with high defensive upside, plus the UFAs with good defensive abilities out there.

No one is knocking Couturier's defense. No one is saying that Laughton or whomever were to replace Couturier is going to be better or even as good. The idea is simple: the downgrade in defense between Couturier and his replacement will be outweighed by the gain on the blueline from Edler (or whomever the guy is in return). It really isn't that complicated. Now, you may not agree with that "math" relating to the gain vs. loss, but it isn't that people are forgetting about Couturier's defense.

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05-11-2013, 11:57 AM
  #624
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I agree with you on not moving Couturier for Edler and certainly not for Goligoski. However, Edler's offensive skill is more of what the Flyers need rather than Coburn's defense. Grossman and Schenn can play the body as well as Coburn. The organization needs a puck mover and a QB on the PP which Edler can be and Coburn can not.
Grossman and Schenn can play the body as well as Coburn but they can't cover ground like Coburn. For as much as he gets killed for his weaknesses he gets very little credit for the number of times he uses his speed and size to cover for his partners mistakes.

Putting Coburn in a trade for a dman is a lateral move. You're not improving this unit by adding Edler if you remove Coburn. You're going to go into the trade deadline trying to trade for a dman you can match against Malkin, Nash, OA, etc for 25 mins a game.

You would be better off keeping Coburn and adding someone that get amnestied like Jbo, Campbell, or Liles. Use the #11 on a dman.

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05-11-2013, 12:27 PM
  #625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I would be pretty surprised if the Canucks went for either of those trades.



I don't think people forget that. I think people look at the awful defense with no prospects in the pipe and no real good UFAs available, then look at the strength defensively in the forward crop as well as the forwards they have in the system with high defensive upside, plus the UFAs with good defensive abilities out there.

No one is knocking Couturier's defense. No one is saying that Laughton or whomever were to replace Couturier is going to be better or even as good. The idea is simple: the downgrade in defense between Couturier and his replacement will be outweighed by the gain on the blueline from Edler (or whomever the guy is in return). It really isn't that complicated. Now, you may not agree with that "math" relating to the gain vs. loss, but it isn't that people are forgetting about Couturier's defense.
Is Edler truly good enough defensively to mend the hole made by trading Couturier? I wager he isn't. Edler is just another one of those players we already have enough of...a top 4 guy who isn't a true number 1. We already have plenty of those. We don't need to trade people to get another. We don't need to gut the forward group's defensive play to do it, either.

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