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09-25-2006, 11:13 PM
  #1
Guillermo
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Which rookie forward will make the cut?

This thread may seem redundant, as the subject is being mentionned a lot in the forum. Which rookie forward will make the cut? Let's try to evaluate it objectively, considering every aspect of this tricky question. It would be great to have your opinion.

The team will be made of 7 defencemen and 2 goalies, leaving 14 spots open on offense. IMHO, here are the secured spots :

Higgins
Koivu
Ryder
Samsonov
Ribeiro
Kovalev
Plekanec
Johnson
Bégin
Bonk

This leaves 3 spots open.

On the fourh line, the potential players who might complete the line Bégin-Bonk-X are the following :

Lapierre and Ferland: Both seemed to have a good camp so far, playing with a lot of energy. However, I don't feel that they impressed enough to surpass Murray and Downey in the depth chart, two guys who already have NHL experience. Lapierre should benefit going back to Hamilton, being a leader and contributing offensively. Ferland needs to clear waivers, something I believe he will do, considering that fourth liners like him are dime a dozen in the NHL. Verdict : AHL bound

Murray : I really think Murray will stick with the big club. He looked pretty good in the game I saw on RDS and should continue to get better with Bégin and Bonk. IMO, he is a lock.

Downey : This guy is a decent enforcer, the only one we have actually. He doesn't hinder the team when on the ice. By the reports, this guy also has a great attitude and he reported in great shape at training camp! If on the team, he shouldn't play that many games, which could be viewed as a plus. I guess it all depends on the coaching staff. Fighting being down in the league, do they want a goon with team? IMO, he'll make it.

Now, here are the offensive players who have a shot with the big club :

Kostitsyn : I'm really a big fan of him. However, I felt he didn't shine as much as Latendresse. This guy has a lot of potential and I believe he will be the first one called up if an injury occurs to a player on the top lines. The fact that he can be sent down without clearing waivers (for the last year I believe) and that he still hasn't been dominant in the AHL makes me believe he'll start the year in the AHL with Grabovski.

Perezhogin : Speedy winger beginning his 2nd year in the NHL. Let's be realistic : This guy has a one-way contract with the team, cannot be sent down in the AHL without clearing waivers. Considering his price tag and potential, he will be taken by another team. I'm pretty sure...I mean, a team like Washington would probably pick him. What do you think? Moreover, I don't feel he's the kind of guy who can be an extra forward, playing on the fourh line, missing games, etc. With his shaky confidence, he needs to play and must continue to develop. Consequently, the only place I could see for him is the third line to start the year.

So that leaves us with the last, but not the least, the almighty Latendresse. I really feel this guy (along with the media ) is forcing the hand of the Habs. He is obviously making an impact in every preseason game. His presence is felt on every shift. How many times did we hear his name during the second and third period against Ottawa (if we compare with Kost)? IMO, the guy has nothing to learn in junior that's for sure. He also brings another dimension to the team, going in front of the net, distributing bodychecks, etc. Now will he be able to continue at that rythm, to bring his A game every game day? Can he keep up with Montreal pressure? Unfortunately, I don't have the answers to these questions. Finally, I think he'll start the year with Les Habs. If he doesn't succeed, he will be sent back to Les Voltigeurs before the 10 games.

To finish this long post, Murray and Downey being with the big club (in my theory), I really believe it will end up being Perezhogin vs Latendresse for the last roster spot. I honestly don't know what will happen, as I don't see them sharing duties with Les Habs. An option could be to have Perezhogin on the fourth line with Bonk and Bégin and Downey in Hamilton , but it is not realistic to me. Could we see a Perezhogin trade, like we did with Hossa last year? Am I overreacting? So, what do you guys think?

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09-25-2006, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bûcheron View Post
Higgins
Koivu
Ryder
Samsonov
Ribeiro
Kovalev
Plekanec
Johnson
Bégin
Bonk

This leaves 4 spots open.
Small but significant correction to your post.

I think Murray, Downey, Perezhogin all start the year with the team.

Leaves an offensive forward spot for either Latendresse or Kostitsyn. Latendresse is ahead by a small margin at this point but there's still a few games before the decision is made.

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09-25-2006, 11:37 PM
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Ross MacLochness
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If we are allowed to take 14, then its already settled.

Latendresse is the 14th. Kostitsyn 15th, Ferland 16th etc..

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09-26-2006, 01:13 AM
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In a way I believe that Kostitsyn should get the last spot on the roster. Knowing the Montreal brass and the way they like to develop there players, why would they rush Guillaume to the NHL already. Give him another year in the juniors and let him dominate there. Power forwards like Guillaume should be nurtured because I believe he has a bright future as a Hab.

On the other hand seeing both Grabovski and Kostitsyn on the same line in Hamilton could do wonders for Kostys drive and consistency.

Decisions... decisions.

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09-26-2006, 06:46 AM
  #5
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Originally Posted by Slip Slidin' Slim View Post
If we are allowed to take 14, then its already settled.

Latendresse is the 14th. Kostitsyn 15th, Ferland 16th etc..

I agree... unless Carboneau wants a spare D, in which case Jancevski is in untill Bouillon and/or Cote return.

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09-26-2006, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Slip Slidin' Slim View Post
If we are allowed to take 14, then its already settled.

Latendresse is the 14th. Kostitsyn 15th, Ferland 16th etc..
Latendress is going to need more icetime at this point in his career then 14th forward icetime, he should go back to jr.

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09-26-2006, 07:21 AM
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Just a thaugt, If Gui keeps playing the way he has in preseason into the regular season and continues to post good numbers, why will he be a 4th line player? he could receive tons of ice time! IMO

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09-26-2006, 07:46 AM
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Being the 14th player making the team does not imply he will have the least ice time of all the forwards. As Guy & Bob have been saying all summer it only means there are 13 more or less set spots on the team and a 14th spot available for a rookie. Obviously, the ice time of this last forward player to make the team will be dictated by his role & game performance.

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09-26-2006, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Ted View Post
Latendress is going to need more icetime at this point in his career then 14th forward icetime, he should go back to jr.
Latendresse will stay and be among the top 12 forwards. Downey is the expendable one. No need for that type of player. Kostitsyn may be returned to Hamilton without going thru waivers. Perezhogin will stay for the time being, but he must prove a.s.a.p. that he wants to play badly. If not, Kost will be on his way back up really soon and Perezhogin will be dealt away.

There is still few pre season games to play and injuries might still happen.

I don't mind where Latendresse play as long as he's with the top 12. He can play with Bonk & Bégin, he can play with Ribs and Higgins. If so, Koivu may finally play with Kovalev and Samsonov (!@#$%%... what a waste of money Samsonov). Plekanek can play with Ryder, Kost or Perez. and Bonk with Bégin & Johnson. Murray will have to fight back to get a regular spot. I am sad for Ferland because I think he belongs with the team. We gonna loose him on waivers.

FORWARDS
Samsonov - Koivu - Kovalev

Higgins - Ribeiro - Latendresse

Perezhogin or Kostitsyn - Plekanek - Ryder

Bégin - Bonk - Johnson (this line might play more than the third line on some nights)

Murray - Ferland (if Perez stays and Kost goes back to Hamilton)

Downey - OUT !


Last edited by habitue*: 09-26-2006 at 08:12 AM.
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09-26-2006, 08:07 AM
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Just a thaugt, If Gui keeps playing the way he has in preseason into the regular season and continues to post good numbers, why will he be a 4th line player? he could receive tons of ice time! IMO
That is just an old theory that does not make any sense, any more. Thornton was playing like 5 minutes on a fourth line when he made the Bruins lineup. I am more aware of sending him back to his Junior team where he will be totally depressed and uninterested. The guy belongs to the NHL. Period. Was bergeron of the Bruins too young ?

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09-26-2006, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Turbo View Post
Small but significant correction to your post.

I think Murray, Downey, Perezhogin all start the year with the team.

Leaves an offensive forward spot for either Latendresse or Kostitsyn. Latendresse is ahead by a small margin at this point but there's still a few games before the decision is made.

Same here. Murray, Downey, Perez and Lats.

When the injuries will start, the ones to be called up are:

First call up if scoring is needed: Kosty

First call up if grinding is needed: Ferland

Later this year, the first one to leave out of that list would be Downey, maybe Perez is somebody is willing to overpay for whatever reason they might have. Obviously it would take Perez to play great for that to happen, but again, why would we want to trade somebody if they're playing great......unless a good d-man is available....

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09-26-2006, 09:34 AM
  #12
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That is just an old theory that does not make any sense, any more. Thornton was playing like 5 minutes on a fourth line when he made the Bruins lineup. I am more aware of sending him back to his Junior team where he will be totally depressed and uninterested. The guy belongs to the NHL. Period. Was bergeron of the Bruins too young ?
I think it would more appropriate on the third line when not only will he won't have the pressure of the first 2 scoring lines, but he will have 2 great guys to set him up and great help as far as his defensive play as well.

I don't think it will help him to go to a struggling Drummondville team without Brassard for the first 6 months and with the possibility of not doing as well as expected at the World Juniors.....He has nothing to gain to go back down, he has everything to learn to stay up, he has to at least received his 10-game try.

Besides it's not really that he could not play with Bonk and Bégin on the 4th but our team would be better if he is on the 3rd and Murray on the 4th than the opposite.

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09-26-2006, 09:43 AM
  #13
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Player kept

Perezhogin: should stay and might be dealt if not producing enough or if he displays a similar type of game thant other, more talented or already proven player (80%)

Murray: should stay however, even if I like his type of game, I beleive that his day's are numbered considering two quebecer have the same type of game and should be ready pretty soon (Ferland & Lapierre) and I think that both Q guys have more offensive potential (90%)

Ferland: Has to clear waivers (I'm scared that the Briuns might grab him for free since he played his Junior with Bergeron and they had good chemistry) and should rotate with Murray on the fourth line (75%)

Downey: will go back to harvest some potato full time (30%)

Latendresse: Could stay with the big club, at least for 7-10 games and a real decision will be made afterward, lets not forget that if he play 10 games, it's going to be considered 1 year of experience, which will translate into reaching is UFA younger and I think the upper management of the habs are thinking about it (it could also depends on the fact that BG is trying to move some player in order to grab another defensemen and could deal a foward for a D, leaving on spot open for Lat). Basically, there's too many IFs and not enough knowledge from my part!
(75% of makiing the team)

First scoring call-up: Kostitsyn
First Grinding call-up: Lapierre

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09-26-2006, 09:47 AM
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In a way I believe that Kostitsyn should get the last spot on the roster. Knowing the Montreal brass and the way they like to develop there players, why would they rush Guillaume to the NHL already. Give him another year in the juniors and let him dominate there. Power forwards like Guillaume should be nurtured because I believe he has a bright future as a Hab.

On the other hand seeing both Grabovski and Kostitsyn on the same line in Hamilton could do wonders for Kostys drive and consistency.

Decisions... decisions.
I really wanted to be sarcastic here, but hey lets be decent.

You learn nothing but bad habits when you dominate in the Q. 1 Year with Begin or 1 year in the Q, theres no debate, Guillaume would progress much more in the NHL. As for Kost, if he beats perezhogin, I believe Perez will get traded, Kost deserve this spot and also got a much higher ceiling than Perez. Let him play imo.

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09-26-2006, 09:51 AM
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I think it would more appropriate on the third line when not only will he won't have the pressure of the first 2 scoring lines, but he will have 2 great guys to set him up and great help as far as his defensive play as well.

I don't think it will help him to go to a struggling Drummondville team without Brassard for the first 6 months and with the possibility of not doing as well as expected at the World Juniors.....He has nothing to gain to go back down, he has everything to learn to stay up, he has to at least received his 10-game try.

Besides it's not really that he could not play with Bonk and Bégin on the 4th but our team would be better if he is on the 3rd and Murray on the 4th than the opposite.
Id have to agree that on any other team Tender should be used on the 3rd line. But the fact is in Montreal the 2nd line is often the pressure free line that plays less than the shutdown 3rd line. Plus tender seems to enjoys Ribeiro and the same for Ribeiro. Add Kovalev to the mix, and I think you have a much more dangerous 2nd line than with Samsonov.

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09-26-2006, 09:59 AM
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This thread may seem redundant, as the subject is being mentionned a lot in the forum. Which rookie forward will make the cut? Let's try to evaluate it objectively, considering every aspect of this tricky question. It would be great to have your opinion.

The team will be made of 7 defencemen and 2 goalies, leaving 14 spots open on offense. IMHO, here are the secured spots :

Higgins
Koivu
Ryder
Samsonov
Ribeiro
Kovalev
Plekanec
Johnson
Bégin
Bonk

This leaves 3 spots open.

On the fourh line, the potential players who might complete the line Bégin-Bonk-X are the following :

Lapierre and Ferland: Both seemed to have a good camp so far, playing with a lot of energy. However, I don't feel that they impressed enough to surpass Murray and Downey in the depth chart, two guys who already have NHL experience. Lapierre should benefit going back to Hamilton, being a leader and contributing offensively. Ferland needs to clear waivers, something I believe he will do, considering that fourth liners like him are dime a dozen in the NHL. Verdict : AHL bound

Murray : I really think Murray will stick with the big club. He looked pretty good in the game I saw on RDS and should continue to get better with Bégin and Bonk. IMO, he is a lock.

Downey : This guy is a decent enforcer, the only one we have actually. He doesn't hinder the team when on the ice. By the reports, this guy also has a great attitude and he reported in great shape at training camp! If on the team, he shouldn't play that many games, which could be viewed as a plus. I guess it all depends on the coaching staff. Fighting being down in the league, do they want a goon with team? IMO, he'll make it.

Now, here are the offensive players who have a shot with the big club :

Kostitsyn : I'm really a big fan of him. However, I felt he didn't shine as much as Latendresse. This guy has a lot of potential and I believe he will be the first one called up if an injury occurs to a player on the top lines. The fact that he can be sent down without clearing waivers (for the last year I believe) and that he still hasn't been dominant in the AHL makes me believe he'll start the year in the AHL with Grabovski.

Perezhogin : Speedy winger beginning his 2nd year in the NHL. Let's be realistic : This guy has a one-way contract with the team, cannot be sent down in the AHL without clearing waivers. Considering his price tag and potential, he will be taken by another team. I'm pretty sure...I mean, a team like Washington would probably pick him. What do you think? Moreover, I don't feel he's the kind of guy who can be an extra forward, playing on the fourh line, missing games, etc. With his shaky confidence, he needs to play and must continue to develop. Consequently, the only place I could see for him is the third line to start the year.

So that leaves us with the last, but not the least, the almighty Latendresse. I really feel this guy (along with the media ) is forcing the hand of the Habs. He is obviously making an impact in every preseason game. His presence is felt on every shift. How many times did we hear his name during the second and third period against Ottawa (if we compare with Kost)? IMO, the guy has nothing to learn in junior that's for sure. He also brings another dimension to the team, going in front of the net, distributing bodychecks, etc. Now will he be able to continue at that rythm, to bring his A game every game day? Can he keep up with Montreal pressure? Unfortunately, I don't have the answers to these questions. Finally, I think he'll start the year with Les Habs. If he doesn't succeed, he will be sent back to Les Voltigeurs before the 10 games.

To finish this long post, Murray and Downey being with the big club (in my theory), I really believe it will end up being Perezhogin vs Latendresse for the last roster spot. I honestly don't know what will happen, as I don't see them sharing duties with Les Habs. An option could be to have Perezhogin on the fourth line with Bonk and Bégin and Downey in Hamilton , but it is not realistic to me. Could we see a Perezhogin trade, like we did with Hossa last year? Am I overreacting? So, what do you guys think?
i think you're on the money

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09-26-2006, 10:09 AM
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There are 12 spots on the game roster.

2 of which are under competition

Perez or Kost for the 2nd/3rd line winger

Lats, Murray or Downey for the 4th line winger.




LATENDRESSE IS NOT COMPETING WITH PEREZ OR KOST.

They do not play the same type of game. Latendresse can fit on a 4th line. Kostitsyn or Perezhogin cannot.

I think Latendresse and Perez make the team.

I think Kostitsyn will be in the NHL as soon as the 1st injury happens (which mean the first week)

I don't see a problem!

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09-26-2006, 10:10 AM
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Ferland is going to make the team, he's paid his dues and based on his preseason and training camp, he should make the team. This is a guy who's impressed the coaching staff every training camp he's been in, he's always been among the last cuts. I really like his game, I feel he's alot like Murray, except he has a better scoring touch.

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09-26-2006, 10:13 AM
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Now that I think about this more... I'm thinking Kostitsyn goes back to AHL and Ferland lands the last spot. He can share time with Downey and learn at the same time... as for Latendresse, he should get his nine games knowing that he's Q bound at the end of the ninth game. That, imo, works for everyone! Then, Kostitsyn joins the Habs next year and Latendresse and Chipchura become our two call up guys for next season.

Does Lapierre need to clear waivers next season?

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09-26-2006, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by habitué View Post
FORWARDS
Samsonov - Koivu - Kovalev

Higgins - Ribeiro - Latendresse

Perezhogin or Kostitsyn - Plekanek - Ryder

Bégin - Bonk - Johnson (this line might play more than the third line on some nights)

Murray - Ferland (if Perez stays and Kost goes back to Hamilton)

Downey - OUT !
theres no way johnson ends up on the 4th line

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09-26-2006, 10:28 AM
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Didn't remember that Ferland needed to clear waivers. I'm sorry but I firmly believe he'll be picked if he goes through waivers. Downey would clear it no problem but I understand the money issue.

But again, it ain't Ferland's problem if Gainey gave Downey immediately a contract without knowing the other possibilities inside his org.

The Habs org. won't take the chance of losing another franco for Mr. Potato....

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09-26-2006, 10:33 AM
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You can keep 14 forwards, hell you can even keep 15 forwards and go with 6 D. The maximum number of players you can have is 23. Assuming they go with 14 forwards, there is room for 4 of the Perezhogin/Latendresse/Murray/Downey/Ferland/Kostitsyn/Chipchura/Lapierre group.

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09-26-2006, 10:33 AM
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Didn't remember that Ferland needed to clear waivers. I'm sorry but I firmly believe he'll be picked if he goes through waivers.
Who would pick Ferland?!

It's not like he has *EVER* done anything in his 3 years of AHL action to attract any attention. Dozens of more accomplished players have already been demoted and nobody is going to claim those players either. I think it's 100% no-risk to send him down.

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09-26-2006, 10:34 AM
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Who would pick Ferland?!

It's not like he has *EVER* done anything in his 3 years of AHL action to attract any attention. Dozens of more accomplished players have already been demoted and nobody is going to claim those players either. I think it's 100% no-risk to send him down.
Agreed.

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09-26-2006, 10:37 AM
  #25
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Who would pick Ferland?!

It's not like he has *EVER* done anything in his 3 years of AHL action to attract any attention. Dozens of more accomplished players have already been demoted and nobody is going to claim those players either. I think it's 100% no-risk to send him down.
Maybe, but why risk it? I feel he's impressed enough in this camp, as well as other camps to stay this year. He's essentially the carbon copy of Murray except a little bigger with a better scoring touch.

And this is a situation where language does and should play a role, should it' come down to Ferland vs. Murray vs. Downey...at equal talent, you go with the french canadian

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